- 15,327
- 14,954
Yeah, so I have now completed Persona's 3-5 as a whole, and I think I have an idea of the scale for it, but I have no idea if it'll be controversial or not
2nd Semester SEES Members (PQ2 Scaling go brrrrr)~Post-Naoto Dungeon Investigation Team Members (PQ2 Scaling go brrrrr)~Sae Arc Phantom Thieves (PQ2 Scaling go brrrrr)
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P3 Elizabeth (Does not deem Makoto worthy to fight till basically the Final Arc of P3)
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P3 Margaret (During the same exact same time period, it took a team of 4 SEES Memebers to beat P3 Margaret while Makoto alone beat P3 Elizabeth)
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Nyx Avatar (Stated to be above past foes, which includes P3 Margaret of course, who lost to the Final Battle SEES Members. It's also narratively just a way harder fight for the SEES Members. Could potentially be higher, but lacks feats)~<Erebus (Probably stronger than Nyx Avatar. It took on a stronger SEES Member team than the Nyx Avatar did, but they also lacked Makoto with them, but did have Metis, so like... Probably slightly stronger than Nyx Avatar)
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Final Battle SEES Members (Fought and defeated P3 Elizabeth, P3 Margaret, Nyx Avatar, and Erebus)
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P4 Elizabeth (Effortlessly one-shot Erebus and stated that she has trained a lot since P3, which makes her inarguably way above the Final Battle SEES Members)~<P4 Margaret (At the time of P4, she implies she could forecfully drag Elizabeth back to the Velvet Room if she wanted, meaning she should at least be comparable to P4 Elizabeth, if not outright superior like she was in P3)
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Igor (Margaret implies she has not been able to defeat Igor in the past and says that it is difficult to surpass him, meaning at bare minimum, Igor is comparable to Margaret, but very likely superior to her. As the Master of the Velvet Room Attendants as well, he should just logically scale above them. He could maybe be higher in the scaling chain, but he has basically zero proper feats)
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Universe Arcana Makoto (He could maybe be lower or higher due to lacking any concrete feats in comparison to other characters. He's obviously far stronger than his previous state and is capable of effortlessly flying into Nyx's true form while the other SEES Members could barely move. He survived a few attacks from True Nyx just barely and can just barely deal damage to her. Igor claims he can basically do anything now, so maybe he should scale above Igor? I dunno, this version of Makoto is really hard to scale and does not have the same level of feats as people above him)
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Final Battle Investigation Team Members (Defeated P4 Margaret and sorta beat Base Izanami. Yu needed to use the Orb of Sight to actually defeat Base Izanami, so it's arguable if they scale to this form of her fully, but they did fight and damage her, and then went on to fight and damage her Okami form, so it's likely that they should at least be comparable to Base Izanami)~Base Izanami (Flat out stated to be above everything prior, when we know the Investigation Team fought and defeated P4 Margaret. Also was not able to be defeated by the Investigation Team properly in direct combat)~<Base Holy Grail (Stated to be on a whole other level of power from all past Persona 5 foes. He easily took over and sealed away Igor, with Igor being completely incapable of escaping at all and losing basically all of his power in the process. It is implied that he took no damage from Lavenza's attacks and it's also implied he managed to one-shot her as well. Dude basically soloed the Velvet Room like it was easy and should be above Igor and all of the P4 versions of the residents at the very least. The level of casualness that he handled the Velvet Room and his overall better narrative feats position him above Base Izanami)
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Yaldabaoth Arc Phantom Thieves (Defeated the Base Holy Grail and forced it to transform into Yaldabaoth. Was able to fight and give Yaldabaoth a noteworthy fight, although they are overall weaker)~Izanami no Okami (Way stronger than her previous form and did ultimately defeat the Final Battle Investigation Team Members)~<Yaldabaoth (Fought and defeated the Yaldaboth Arc Phantom Thieves and is much stronger than his previous Holy Grail state)
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True Nx (This one is really hard to rate due to conflicting feats, but I'm gonna be generous here. Unlike every other Persona God Final Boss, she's impossible to defeat conventionally in direct combat. She nearly one-shots Universe Arcana Makoto and had to be sealed in order to be defeated. Considering she can almost one-shot Universe Arcana Makoto, she should be capable of easily one-shotting Erebus and the Final Battle SEES Members, which should put her above everyone below unless you believe that Yaldabaoth is capable of one-shotting Igor or some shit. Maybe she is narratively higher or lower tho depending)
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Yu with Izanagi no Okami (One-shot Izanami no Okami, who is far stronger than P4 Elizabeth, meaning it's a way better feat than one-shotting Erebus would be)
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Joker with Satanael (One-shot Yaldabaoth and completely negged his Almighty Attacks. This is easily above Yu with Izanagi no Okami as Yaldabaoth just has way better scaling than Izanami overall. Also the Sinful Shell is a single attack while Myriad Truths is a multi-hit spell, meaning Joker's one-shot of Yaldabaoth required less individual attacks than the Yu's did. Point is "Begone" trumps the glasses being thrown away)
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Maruki with Azathoth (Directly stated to have aquired the power of the masses that allowed Joker to one-shot Yaldabaoth, which explicitly makes him at bare minimum equal to Joker with Satanael, and likely even way stronger. In addition to this, he has his own Persona powers that allow him to acutalize in addition to the power of the masses. He's also stated to be on a completely different level than Yaldabaoth. Also unlike Yaldabaoth, Maruki deals with a Phantom Thieves Team that has both Akechi and Sumire. Akechi and Sumire are basically second only to Joker on the Team, so Maruki is fighting a squad of Phantom Thieves that has two more very strong members that Yaldabaoth didn't)
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Maruki with Adam Kadmon (Evolved his Persona and is far stronger than his previous state)
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Final Battle Phantom Thieves (Fought and defeated both Maruki with Azathoth and Maruki with Adam Kadmom. Also gained access to Tier 3 Persona's after this point, which are way above their Tier 2 Persona's that fought Yaldabaoth. Even without Joker helping, the other 9 Phantom Thieves managed to hold back and stop Maruki and Adam Kadmon's Full Force attack by combining all their power)
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Maruki and Adam Kadmon Fusion (Became unimaginably stronger than before. Nearly one-shot the Final Battle Phantom Thieves and is basically completely unfazed or damaged by their attacks. He only lost due to dropping his defense to zero)
So yeah that's my scale, there's a lot of shit that just makes past Persona game era characters unable to keep up with current ones. But obviously whenever there is a crossover, the older characters do end get scaled up to the stronger characters and they all end up being relative regardless
2nd Semester SEES Members (PQ2 Scaling go brrrrr)~Post-Naoto Dungeon Investigation Team Members (PQ2 Scaling go brrrrr)~Sae Arc Phantom Thieves (PQ2 Scaling go brrrrr)
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P3 Elizabeth (Does not deem Makoto worthy to fight till basically the Final Arc of P3)
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P3 Margaret (During the same exact same time period, it took a team of 4 SEES Memebers to beat P3 Margaret while Makoto alone beat P3 Elizabeth)
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Nyx Avatar (Stated to be above past foes, which includes P3 Margaret of course, who lost to the Final Battle SEES Members. It's also narratively just a way harder fight for the SEES Members. Could potentially be higher, but lacks feats)~<Erebus (Probably stronger than Nyx Avatar. It took on a stronger SEES Member team than the Nyx Avatar did, but they also lacked Makoto with them, but did have Metis, so like... Probably slightly stronger than Nyx Avatar)
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Final Battle SEES Members (Fought and defeated P3 Elizabeth, P3 Margaret, Nyx Avatar, and Erebus)
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P4 Elizabeth (Effortlessly one-shot Erebus and stated that she has trained a lot since P3, which makes her inarguably way above the Final Battle SEES Members)~<P4 Margaret (At the time of P4, she implies she could forecfully drag Elizabeth back to the Velvet Room if she wanted, meaning she should at least be comparable to P4 Elizabeth, if not outright superior like she was in P3)
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Igor (Margaret implies she has not been able to defeat Igor in the past and says that it is difficult to surpass him, meaning at bare minimum, Igor is comparable to Margaret, but very likely superior to her. As the Master of the Velvet Room Attendants as well, he should just logically scale above them. He could maybe be higher in the scaling chain, but he has basically zero proper feats)
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Universe Arcana Makoto (He could maybe be lower or higher due to lacking any concrete feats in comparison to other characters. He's obviously far stronger than his previous state and is capable of effortlessly flying into Nyx's true form while the other SEES Members could barely move. He survived a few attacks from True Nyx just barely and can just barely deal damage to her. Igor claims he can basically do anything now, so maybe he should scale above Igor? I dunno, this version of Makoto is really hard to scale and does not have the same level of feats as people above him)
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Final Battle Investigation Team Members (Defeated P4 Margaret and sorta beat Base Izanami. Yu needed to use the Orb of Sight to actually defeat Base Izanami, so it's arguable if they scale to this form of her fully, but they did fight and damage her, and then went on to fight and damage her Okami form, so it's likely that they should at least be comparable to Base Izanami)~Base Izanami (Flat out stated to be above everything prior, when we know the Investigation Team fought and defeated P4 Margaret. Also was not able to be defeated by the Investigation Team properly in direct combat)~<Base Holy Grail (Stated to be on a whole other level of power from all past Persona 5 foes. He easily took over and sealed away Igor, with Igor being completely incapable of escaping at all and losing basically all of his power in the process. It is implied that he took no damage from Lavenza's attacks and it's also implied he managed to one-shot her as well. Dude basically soloed the Velvet Room like it was easy and should be above Igor and all of the P4 versions of the residents at the very least. The level of casualness that he handled the Velvet Room and his overall better narrative feats position him above Base Izanami)
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Yaldabaoth Arc Phantom Thieves (Defeated the Base Holy Grail and forced it to transform into Yaldabaoth. Was able to fight and give Yaldabaoth a noteworthy fight, although they are overall weaker)~Izanami no Okami (Way stronger than her previous form and did ultimately defeat the Final Battle Investigation Team Members)~<Yaldabaoth (Fought and defeated the Yaldaboth Arc Phantom Thieves and is much stronger than his previous Holy Grail state)
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True Nx (This one is really hard to rate due to conflicting feats, but I'm gonna be generous here. Unlike every other Persona God Final Boss, she's impossible to defeat conventionally in direct combat. She nearly one-shots Universe Arcana Makoto and had to be sealed in order to be defeated. Considering she can almost one-shot Universe Arcana Makoto, she should be capable of easily one-shotting Erebus and the Final Battle SEES Members, which should put her above everyone below unless you believe that Yaldabaoth is capable of one-shotting Igor or some shit. Maybe she is narratively higher or lower tho depending)
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Yu with Izanagi no Okami (One-shot Izanami no Okami, who is far stronger than P4 Elizabeth, meaning it's a way better feat than one-shotting Erebus would be)
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Joker with Satanael (One-shot Yaldabaoth and completely negged his Almighty Attacks. This is easily above Yu with Izanagi no Okami as Yaldabaoth just has way better scaling than Izanami overall. Also the Sinful Shell is a single attack while Myriad Truths is a multi-hit spell, meaning Joker's one-shot of Yaldabaoth required less individual attacks than the Yu's did. Point is "Begone" trumps the glasses being thrown away)
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Maruki with Azathoth (Directly stated to have aquired the power of the masses that allowed Joker to one-shot Yaldabaoth, which explicitly makes him at bare minimum equal to Joker with Satanael, and likely even way stronger. In addition to this, he has his own Persona powers that allow him to acutalize in addition to the power of the masses. He's also stated to be on a completely different level than Yaldabaoth. Also unlike Yaldabaoth, Maruki deals with a Phantom Thieves Team that has both Akechi and Sumire. Akechi and Sumire are basically second only to Joker on the Team, so Maruki is fighting a squad of Phantom Thieves that has two more very strong members that Yaldabaoth didn't)
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Maruki with Adam Kadmon (Evolved his Persona and is far stronger than his previous state)
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Final Battle Phantom Thieves (Fought and defeated both Maruki with Azathoth and Maruki with Adam Kadmom. Also gained access to Tier 3 Persona's after this point, which are way above their Tier 2 Persona's that fought Yaldabaoth. Even without Joker helping, the other 9 Phantom Thieves managed to hold back and stop Maruki and Adam Kadmon's Full Force attack by combining all their power)
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Maruki and Adam Kadmon Fusion (Became unimaginably stronger than before. Nearly one-shot the Final Battle Phantom Thieves and is basically completely unfazed or damaged by their attacks. He only lost due to dropping his defense to zero)
So yeah that's my scale, there's a lot of shit that just makes past Persona game era characters unable to keep up with current ones. But obviously whenever there is a crossover, the older characters do end get scaled up to the stronger characters and they all end up being relative regardless
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