Possible MCU Downgrades

[Luck100]

But they destroyed 500 meters long chunk of vibranium (stark + Thor) with a uni-beam and mjolnir hit.

 

[Dino_W]

The neutron star feat's results would vary wildly depending on the temperature used. We've used 1000000 Kelvin for nearly all of our calcs.

If the average temperature of a neutron star is used.

(5.67e-8*600000^4)*(4*pi*177.6765^2)/7.1631454094501*1.14*3.6477=1.6923029e+21 joules or 404.46 gigatons (Large Island Level)

But, the temperature of neutron stars are not particularily consistent, and can range from a few Kelvin to billions. Also we've assumed that the beam is channeling the literal full power of the star, which I feel is an erroneous assumption, as the rest of the star remains bright even when the beam is fired. Eitri's statement of "the full force of a star" is likely exaggerated.

 

[Luck100]

And if we use laser formula to calculate the neutron star feat ?
We could calc the strength to open the "doors" of nidavellir + the gravity of the star to add in the calculation too.

 

[Dino_W]

The laser formula depends on the power of the laser, which would still depend on the temperature of the neutron star and the amount of the star's power concentrated in the beam. As for the strength required to open the doors of nidavellir, I do not know how we would calc that.

 

[Revan_Laha]

The neutron star feat's results would vary wildly depending on the temperature used. We've used 1000000 Kelvin for nearly all of our calcs.

If the average temperature of a neutron star is used.

(5.67e-8*600000^4)*(4*pi*177.6765^2)/7.1631454094501*1.14*3.6477=1.6923029e+21 joules or 404.46 gigatons (Large Island Level)

But, the temperature of neutron stars are not particularily consistent, and can range from a few Kelvin to billions. Also we've assumed that the beam is channeling the literal full power of the star, which I feel is an erroneous assumption, as the rest of the star remains bright even when the beam is fired. Eitri's statement of "the full force of a star" is likely exaggerated.

Which is why we went for the Low 6-B

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You just ignored every reason why the calc is flawed after that... you quoted it, but you still ignored it.

 

[Newendigo]

I'm just gonna call the supporters of the verse because this shiet ain't advancing.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Thanks.

 

[Dino_W]

If we use Comic Books vs The World's method of calcing the neutron star feat, which simply takes the power output of the star per square meter.

(5.67e-8*600000^4)*1.14*3.6477=3.0557092e+16 joules or 7.303145 megatons (City Level)

This method however still requires the assumption of temperature, and is otherwise a low-end, as we do not know how much of the neutrons star's power is concentrated in the beam. Unless there is a way to determine either of these, I'm not sure if the neutron star calc can be used.

 

[Luck100]

But we know by Eitri quote "full force of a neutron star" if we downgrade this feat why not all feats of this kind ?

 

[Dino_W]

Yes, Eitri states that Thor will have to withstand "the full force of a star," but that is clearly not the case, as the rest of Nidavellir remains bright.

 

[Luck100]

Like a supernova a caracther only take 1% of the energy and the 99% of the energy blows away, but he still solar system level ...

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Like a supernova a caracther only take 1% of the energy and the 99% of the energy blows away, but he still solar system level ...

We don't do that at all. Some profiles might get through the cracks, but explosions and other types of energy spread is a pretty big factor in not using a lot of feats for characters.

 

[Newendigo]

I already called most of the members for opinions.

 

[Luck100]

But here we have others factor like the gravity of the star after he awake the neutron star and etc ...

 

[Dino_W]

For whatever reason, Nidavellir's gravity seems fairly minimal, which is strange for a neutron star. In fact, Nidavellir does not behave like a neutron star at all. It is not nearly bright enough for one, it can be reignited which is not a feature of neutron stars, it exerts minimal gravity, and the effects of what should be an extremely powerful magnetic field are unseen.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Surprise, MCU takes liberties with it's feats.

But yes, the feat should be pretty much unusable. There is no way Nidavellir is an "average" neutron star, so using that for calcs wouldn't work anyways.

 

[Luck100]

Magnetars can still be reignited in real life (eruptions) and they are one type of neutron star. About the gravity, I think that the movie dont need to show to we assume that exists and if we think about it, he opening the gates of nidaveliir would be a good strength feat because that gravity.

 

[Dino_W]

Not really sure if a magnetar eruption can be considered a reignition. They occur when the crust shifts and ruptures, rapidly releasing energy, which seems very unlike what is happening on Nidavellier. XTE J1810―197 reawakening does not seem to relate to its temperature, but rather its radio wave emissions and magnetic field.

 

[Luck100]

But in nidavellir we have a structure doing the reignition of the star and protecting its core.

 

[Dino_W]

Actually, now that I think about it, radio wave emissions may relate to luminousity, and thus the neutron star calc. However, there are still too many unknowns to properly evaluate the feat as of yet.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

For whatever reason, Nidavellir's gravity seems fairly minimal, which is strange for a neutron star. In fact, Nidavellir does not behave like a neutron star at all. It is not nearly bright enough for one, it can be reignited which is not a feature of neutron stars, it exerts minimal gravity, and the effects of what should be an extremely powerful magnetic field are unseen.

Most of this can be waved away with bad science. Nidavellir is called a neutron star in the film by people who probably know what they are talking about

 

[Dino_W]

Even if Nidavellir is a proper neutron star, we would still need to determine temperature, as well as energy concentrated in the beam in order to properly perform the calc.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

10^6 Kelvin is the temperature of neutron stars. Or is there a reason why that value is unusable?

 

[Dino_W]

Neutron stars have extremely varied temperatures. New neutron stars can reach billions of kelvin, whereas older ones can be just a few degrees Kelvin. 1000000 Kelvin is reached just a few thousand years after the neutron star is formed, whereas 600000 Kelvin is the average temperature of a neutron star. However you would likely be hard pressed to find a neutron star at either of those temperatures. If we were to assume a temperature, 600000 Kelvin would probably be the best, although still tenuous. We would still have to tackle the issue, however, of the amount of Nidavellir's energy that is concentrated in the beam.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Nidavelir gotta be at least 1500 years old, since Thor's hammer was made there.

 

[Dino_W]

Mjolnir was owned by Hela before Thor. In the MCU guidebook, it was stated that there was a 5000 year gap between the imprisonment of Hela, and the birth of Thor.

The statement can be found on one of the later pages (30 somethingish if I remember correctly) here, along with an Iron Man arc reactor 10 gigajoule statement.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/marvel-cinematic-universe-feat-thread.338412/

This makes Nidavellir at least 6500 years old.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

You still haven't calced the KE of the debris after the explosion

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The mechanism didn't suck up the star's energy and shoot it into a laser like the Starkiller Base. Thor basically opened up a window that allows for direct exposure to the star's heat and radiation. This is what is meant by "full force of a star". The only reason he did this is to allow enough heat to melt the ore Stormbreaker is made from.

As mentioned, by how we usually evaluate heat radiation AP into the surface area of a person, even if the star is as hot as our sun (two dozen times hotter than the average neutron star) it would be Tier 8 AP. The supposedly new standard for stars/heat AP is not detailed yet.

Nidavelir is definetly not the typical neutron star, considering its diameter is less than 700 m. It is also several thousand years old which makes it unlikely to be particularly hot.

 

[Dino_W]

The issue with using the result from tanking the temperature of the sun is that it is based on specific heat capacity of a human. Since Thor is not a human, we do not know his specific heat capacity.

 

[Luck100]

The mechanism didn't suck up the star's energy and shoot it into a laser like the Starkiller Base. Thor basically opened up a window that allows for direct exposure to the star's heat and radiation. This is what is meant by "full force of a star". The only reason he did this is to allow enough heat to melt the ore Stormbreaker is made from.

He only needs to be electromagnetic radiation emissor to be considered a laser not a deathstar's base.

 

[GyroNutz]

From what I understand, this thread's arguments are about the science of a neutron star vs the statements surrounding Thor's feat? I'm inclined to agree with Azoth, this seems like a case of writers not knowing science.

It's worth mentioning that there was a discussion about how we treat heat resistance feats in fiction, which would make it so tanking a certain amount of heat isn't attributed to durability but a resistance, and vice versa.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

You still haven't calced the KE of the debris

 

[Newendigo]

The KE of the Debris don't matter at all, that I'm not calcer and I still know that.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Yes he does, it shows how much energy thor put in into destroying sokovia

The faster it is, the more energy it took to reach that

 

[DMUA]

The KE of the Debris don't matter at all, that I'm not calcer and I still know that.

KE is still the amount of energy that you're hitting something with

We do usually go for frag, but that doesn't spontaneously make KE invalid

... Remind me what exactly is wrong with Spino's calc on it?

 

[Newendigo]

I think you are confusing the KE of the debris with the speed in which the debris were blown away.

And we already through this, Thor's attack was amped.

 

[DMUA]

... Mass moving at a speed is kinetic energy

that said, good point on the amp. What other feats do we have at our disposal?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The OP is treating the calc even after getting amped as fine and what the value is.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

... Mass moving at a speed is kinetic energy
that said, good point on the amp. What other feats do we have at our disposal?

The Ancient One reality warping a city, which I think would be 7-B. But that would only scale to her,kaicellius, and strange

We also have Thor's lightning to be calced at 7-B+