Possible downgrade of Homura Akemi from 2-A to 3-A

[SomebodyData]

The first time or second time? You gots to be more specific, like what about that reset?

 

[Dragopentling]

The first time or second time? You gots to be more specific.

dammit, I'm gonna go look at those scenes again later, but unless if I'm just tripping, it's likely the second time.

 

[SomebodyData]

I was kidding, only Madoka reset the multiverse twice.

What I was talking about is more on what are you specifically refering to in regards to that reset, I haven't read most of the thread yet.

 

[Dragopentling]

I was kidding, only Madoka reset the multiverse twice.
What I was talking about is more on what are you specifically refering to in regards to that reset, I haven't read most of the thread yet.

Well I have to go back ALL the way and read everything for memory renewal, but I'll do it later cause it's hella late at night in my area

 

[SomebodyData]

KK.

Well I read the thread in the meantime.

I'm not sure why Homura's barrier and the changes are being assumed to be correlated, because they're not. Her barrier is just universal, but the changes affect the wider multiverse.

Even the belief that there is a connection is contradicted by the main series (Elly is capable of affecting reality outside of her barrier, the fortress witch (Tart Magica) did so too, Walpurgis would be weakest witch specifically because she lacks a barrier).

We know that Homura reset the multiverse because of her conversation with Kyubey specifically when she was resetting the multiverse. The LoC is implied to still exist, but to what capacity is unknown as well as specifically what are the changes.

 

[Leafbladie]

I was kidding, only Madoka reset the multiverse twice.
What I was talking about is more on what are you specifically refering to in regards to that reset, I haven't read most of the thread yet.

I think they're referring to the fact that I said what Homura did, doesn't fully qualify as a reset. The visuals seem to indicate she pulled the universe into her own barrier/pocket dimension, and has twisted it to her liking. Once the barrier disappears the world should go back to normal without issue, just like any other Witch Barrier. She did force the universe to obey the laws of her Witch Realm, but any Witch makes some section of 3-D space which they inhabit do that as well, Homura's barrier just happens to occupy all of 3-D space now.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well that's the barrier scene.

The reset scene is with the entire microsophic blood cell background and giant Akuma Homura.

 

[Leafbladie]

Well that's the barrier scene.
The reset scene is with the entire microsophic blood cell background and giant Akuma Homura.

Yes, but that scene comes about after Homura traps the entire universe within her barrier. I think it's reasonable to assume that rather than a universal reset, this scene was brought about by the action of Homura pulling the universe into her barrier. The universe was changing itself in that scene, similar to how it did to accomodate Ultimate Madoka's presence. However, this doesn't seem to reset the universe from its initial conception, more from the present in which Ultimate Madoka was captured and then split by Homura.

There's a start point before the world was pulled into the barrier, and there likely will be an end point whenever that barrier is finally taken down. Homura even mentions that the others (Sayaka and Nagisa) were pulled into this barrier, which supposes that it must have limits either spatially and/or temporally. There emust have been a time where Miki Sayaka and Nagisa Momoe existed as part of the Law of Cycles, before Homura's barrier was erected, but if that's the case, then it's logical to conclude from this that her barrier doesn't reach to the birth of the universe, because nothing come before that. This is why I say it likely isn't a reset of the universe, at least not in the same way that Madoka did. The World of Wraiths still exists, it's just been pulled into her barrier.

 

[ZeroTwo64]

Also, it was stated that Devil Homura affected the reality created by Ultimate Madoka, so it means she affected all the universes.

 

[Leafbladie]

Also, it was stated that Devil Homura affected the reality created by Ultimate Madoka, so it means she affected all the universes.

For this reality or all realities? Reality can sometimes be interchanged with universe, so would want to be sure.

 

[ZeroTwo64]

All realities. It says: God created the World, the Devil influences it.

World here means the World of Wraiths created by Ultimate Madoka.

 

[SomebodyData]

It would be reasonable, had Homura not soecifically said said it was the second time she was in the reset scene. Unless you want to argue Homura erected a universal barrier back in the good ol' days before Rebellion, its pretty clear that the universe is being fundamentally altered.

Not to mention if it wasn't reset, everyone would be crapping themselves at a resurrected Sayaka and Madoka's parents would be trapped in the ruins rather than having spent a few years in America (As is stated).

 

[Leafbladie]

Your YouTube link is either broken, or something is wrong with my iPad, because I just got "404 not found". Anyway, yes, I'm aware of what she said there. However, it's never stated that it's a place where one can only visit if a reset to the universe is happening. For all we know, it's a place that can be seen if the universe is just reshaping itself to fit a new major change. Said changes can be all throughout history (like with Madoka's wish), or just from the point of inception (like I posit to be the the case with Homura).

Possibly, if not for Homura's just ridiculous level of memory manipulation. It would not be too hard for her to give false memories to Madoka and her family of having lived in America like she did to Kyoko of crashing at Sayaka's place before Homura came, or to Mami about her being long time friends with Bebe. Sayaka (and Bebe, given the Concept Movie) still seem to be part of the Law of Cycles, but she shouldn't if this was a reset.

 

[Schnee_One]

The link is broken

 

[ZeroTwo64]

Homura is more broken.

 

[SomebodyData]

https://youtu.be/QSGROWEtSE4| <Here ya go.

Well to assume otherwise would just be speculah. Homura saw both occur more than once before no? Not to mention, when a barrier alters reality, it just fades in. This is something entirely different.

We see Madoka moving into her house though.

 

[Schnee_One]

It's broken

 

[SomebodyData]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSGROWEtSE4

Trying another vid.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I'm neutral towards PMMM but...

How... what? She beat goddess madoka and exists on the same level of existence.

 

[Leafbladie]

https://youtu.be/QSGROWEtSE4| <Here ya go.

Well to assume otherwise would just be speculah. Homura saw both occur more than once before no? Not to mention, when a barrier alters reality, it just fades in. This is something entirely different.

Kyubey says the universe is being rewritten, not that it's being reset. The only thing Homura says in response to that is that this is the second time she's been here. I think this lends credence to the idea that this isn't a full on universal reset, just a change on a universal level. Again, we don't see Homura's barrier spread throughout all of time, so I actually think it's speculative to assume it does as well. Especially, since again, Sayaka is still part of the Law of Cycles, so there'd have to exist a time before Homura got her new powers that Sayaka was a part of the Law of Cycles, or this wouldn't make sense. But if this was a reset pn a universal level, all the way to the big bang, then there wouldn't be any time before that.

We see Madoka moving into her house though.

We also see Mami with a bunch of pictures of Bebe. Ones that we know she didn't take, since these were false memories. Remember, she has a bunch of familiars who can move junk around as she wishes, so just have them do that, and then use memory manipulation magic to convince them that they moved in here from America. It's really that simple.

It also feels likely that this is memory manipulation, since again, Madoka starts to see through these false memories as she goes through Mitakihara Middle School. She remembers being here, similar to how Mami remembered fighting Wraiths while she was going all out against Homura. These experiences jogged their memories, and pushed away the false memories.

However, if this was a reset to the universe, then why would Madoka have memories of Mitakihara Middle School? It doesn't make sense. It'd be like Mami having memories of the Witches.

Also, since I feel like someone is going to say it. No, the Law of Cycles doesn't count. It's only after she starts remembering things that she attempts to reclaim the power of the Law of Cycles, and then her eyes glow gold.

Again, it seems most likely that she just made Madoka forget she was a God, just like Madoka did to herself when she infiltrated her barrier. By doing this, Madoka can't access her Godly powers since she can't remember having them. Similar case with Sayaka and her Witch form. It's not that she can no longer summon it (we see it summoned in the Concept Movie), just that Homura made her forget her ability to do so. That's why she's shocked she can Witch Runes as well.

 

[Dragopentling]

You just convinced me more than Homura still stays 2A, instead

 

[Leafbladie]

You just convinced me more than Homura still stays 2A, instead

I mean, I already conceded a long time ago that Homura is 2-A due to word of God. This debate right now has been about minutia with regards to certain events. Anyway, I need bed, ttyl.

 

[Dragopentling]

It's more so I'm convinced to the point where it shouldn't be brought up ever again in another thread via another doubtful individual.


Anyways, I guess we can close this?

 

[SomebodyData]

It could be closed, at this point is just fair debating on some of the specifics.

It's the OP's choice.

 

[Dragopentling]

Schnee probably gonna do the honors, I think.

 

[Schnee_One]

SD is an admin, he can close it himself

I'll do it though