EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #241
They need material body as Veldora states. Otherwise he would eventually disappear and reborn into seperate being.
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Possible Downgrade for LN Rimuru CM type 2.
- Thread starter EldemadeDityjon
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Does not matter same thing
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #243
It does fighting has nothing to do with abstraction. Character needs to exists independently but Veldora statement shows they would disappear without material body eventually and reborn into something else
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Wait, is there such a thing?
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,237
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Supposedly but we never saw it happened yet nor we have interactions where as abstract they used said powers to affect other abstract. So that can be contested. But regardless the idea still stands that they are still limited and cannot affect the physical realm while still an abstract
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #246
Yes. Though it seems they can exists as a Abstraction for some time. That's why we are giving limited abstraction. Not full. If they can exists purely as an Existence without Physical body then they would gotten solid AE type 1.
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Where did Veldora mention that?
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If you destroy Veldoras Spiritual Body ( Astral Body , Soul ; Where his memories resides ) which is his AE1 he will come back to life again somewhat , Veldora stated that he can return from his conceptual self destruction.
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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...998884/Screenshot_20200303-011853_Lithium.jpg
Veldora cant create a Material Body. He stated he will cease to exist in hundreds years
Veldora cant create a Material Body. He stated he will cease to exist in hundreds years
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #250
That's Regeneration not AE
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #251
Volume 1 when Rimuru and Veldora met. Also scan in OP
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First they dont need to have control over their abstraction to be AE1 , this is from AE1 page and true dragons have a control over their AE1
They can still intract with the Magicules in Spiritual Body
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #253
Dude AE type 1 has nothing to do with Regeneration check the definition
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Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
Shiraito983
He/Him- 1,105
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Spiritual life form can still fight without physical body iirc
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Check the page
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #257
It's not about fighting dude it's about completely existing as abstraction without no need of physical body without getting erased or destroyed eventually. If there is a time limit where they can exists as abstraction then need physical body then it's limited abstraction. Check the scan in OP. Veldora was clearly mentioned as eventually disappear and reborn into something else without having physical body.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #258
Nowhere states anything about Regeneration which you claimed. Also it's limited because true dragons has time limit for how much they can remain without a physical form.
Shiraito983
He/Him- 1,105
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I
Isn't that inside unlimited prison
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #261
Here is what happens
Veldora leaves his physical body. His spiritual form remains but it doesn't remain for eternity. Instead it would be erased because it lacks Physical body then reborn into something else.
This kinda of abstraction is limited because Veldora needs physical body to remain in existence and abstraction is just limited for some extent.
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Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
Veldora can create a body via Magicules anytime he wants.
And like I said it doesn't matter if his Spiritual Body can reside in Material world for LIMITED TIME or read the description.
Rimuru After Demon Lord Evolution stated that he can freely change his material body into Spiritual anytime he wants
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,237
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His AE isnt from spirit but from the claimed concept that is the holy will of nature.
Even celestial pegasus said the holy will might be referring to a different spirit and not the spirit = will thing
And this is his state after he is gone including his spiritual body
Also if its just spiritual body that is Incorporeality and not AE. As soul isn't always an abstract thing
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Then this thread should be closed ( Because you guys don't even know what you guys are against it , am I wrong ? ) and a new thread should be open because I Tought you guys accepted everything and was planning to put LIMITED in front of it?
Anyway Spiritual Body has nothing to do with incorporeality , Spiritual life forms can do that with their physical Body too
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,237
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You are wrong yes. You clearly missed the entire point but to explain it.
The original goal is to contest type 2 concept of AE1 for true dragons and also question whether they could fight as AE1 or qualify as AE1 and not AE2.
Now we conceded on concept type 2 being thing a let it be
But it still stands that they have no feat of fighting as abstract without a spiritual and physical body.
Until celestial pegasus brought up some things and information which then was confusing but celestial pegasus corrected that the holy will might be referring to something else and not that spirit = will = info thing.
Which then i changed stance that it should just be info until he corrected it
Now we are back to limited AE type 1 since we accept it as type 2 concept and since info =/= concept we cant just say just because he can manipulate magicules to have another body after going spiritual body doesn't mean he can also do it as deep as just a abstract concept
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What ?
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Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
check the AE page it doesn't say anything llike " you need fight with your Abstract body to be not limited "
Nd I checked the examples they are like tensura characters
check the AE page it doesn't say anything llike " you need fight with your Abstract body to be not limited "
Nd I checked the examples they are like tensura characters
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
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That's literally just a head canon
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
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Before one can make a debunk you must first understand the series the op was truly not making any sense at all, "Veldanava created the world then true dragons were born" I need to ask the op is Veldanava a different specie? lol Veldanava is literally a true dragon himself you think if he created the true dragons they'll call him "Brother"? and also ae1 isn't fighting with your abstraction it's just being one, the physical vessels are merely avatars which have been said multiple times limited AE1 is like rapheal that's part of rimuru's soul while rapheal is ae1 rimuru wasn't ae1 making that limited not being a literal abstraction, nothing is limited here
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,561
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- #270
It's not Fighting instead existing of course.
Here is the thing. If Veldora is put into a place where his Physical body would constantly gets erased where he only need to exists as abstraction can he exists as abstraction for eternity? No of course not he would erased and reborn if he exists as abstraction for longer time. So check the scan in the OP. It's clearly mentions of True Dragons lacks body their abstraction would be erased.
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,237
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Before you start calling it headcanon provide more context using scans.
Creating the world has nothing to do with AE
if you're going to side with one statement while invalidating another statement present in the verse that is equivalent to the bias of choosing only the statement that supports a stronger interpretation.
Also, I'll reiterate. what I meant to say when I said fighting is that. he is incapable of doing anything than letting the system of his AE 1 reborn him a new body once he lost his spiritual body and his physical body.
you simply cannot discredit other scans while fully agreeing with another scan when both scans are valid thus you are left with compromising to make both statements be true which in this case the conclusion follows in a way that makes all statement equally true
Creating the world has nothing to do with AE
if you're going to side with one statement while invalidating another statement present in the verse that is equivalent to the bias of choosing only the statement that supports a stronger interpretation.
Also, I'll reiterate. what I meant to say when I said fighting is that. he is incapable of doing anything than letting the system of his AE 1 reborn him a new body once he lost his spiritual body and his physical body.
you simply cannot discredit other scans while fully agreeing with another scan when both scans are valid thus you are left with compromising to make both statements be true which in this case the conclusion follows in a way that makes all statement equally true
Lesser_Goddess_Alexia
She/Her- 704
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This is a world matter. Spiritual Lifeforms could continue to exist when they were in a Spiritual World like the Underworld. When it comes to the Semi-Spiritual World/Material World, it requires a physical body to be able to do anything in that world.
Also, before making a CRT, it's better to understand the mechanics of the fiction.
Also, before making a CRT, it's better to understand the mechanics of the fiction.
TheGreatJedi13
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I agree to disagree. my vote stands.
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Quote it.
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I said quote the statement from abstract existence type 1 and not in the introduction of page.
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Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
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So you disagree with the OP ?
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Where is "regeneration" that Elde has asked?
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