Possible DBS human revision?

[SuperDragoon978]

As of right now most of the ToP contestants are rated 3-A except for people like Krillin and Roshi who are High 4-C. However I found something interesting that might change that.

So right now Caulifla is rated as 3-A. She had trouble against the Pride Trooper Kettol who could hurt her with his ki blasts : 1

That same opponent was much earlier shown fighting the warrior Shosha: 2 (about 10 seconds in)

Shosha was able to fight evenly against Krillin and Android 18, and in fact was overwhelmed by them: 3

So just by power scaling Krillin and 18 could overwhelm a guy who could fight a guy who could hurt a tier 3-A oppoent. I know this is basically power scaling but what do you think?

 

[Dark649]

We Admins have decided that Roshi, Krillin, 18 and Tien will not become 3-A because of consistency, even if they could be scaled from other 3-A characters.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

I mean Krillin was able to fight well against Base Gohan an even Goku to an extent so it seems consistent for him.

 

[Dark649]

No, he was fighting evenly and knocked by 18, who trained slighty for the tournament. Goku and Gohan were holding back and the writers shifting PIS a common thing in Super.

 

[Dark649]

This also why Buu is not 3-A because he defeated Basil.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ What Dark649 said.

The sheer amount of PIS in DBS makes scaling a pain.

 

[Dark649]

The sheer amount of PIS in DBS makes scaling a pain.

I'm going to tell examples: Dyspo, who was overpowered by a generic city monster was damaged by Narirama, who was stomped by Basil and Hit, later Dyspo overpowered Hit. Ribrianne fought with 17 and SS Goku and Vegeta, later she easily lost to Base Vegeta.

 

[AKM sama]

Everybody in the tournament is holding back because of the no killing rule. It's likely that they were holding back more in the starting minutes because they wanted to last till the end. So scaling Shosha to Kettol based on 3-4 punches and during the start of ToP seems faulty. Who is to say Kettol wasn't holding himself back to Shosha's level?

 

[SuperDragoon978]

You would need to give evidence Kettol was holding back first. As far as we know he was holding back against Caulifla and was secretly Blue tier. The only one we know was holding back were the god tier characters for obvious reasons.

Making Krillin low because 18 didn't do much training doesn't really work in Super. Piccolo went from like High 4-C to 3-A in just a few months of training, as did Gohan. Heck Super has Freeza going from 4-C to 3-A in 4 months. Insane training gains in short periods of time happen alot.

 

[Golden_Void]

I think they're fine. The only one close to hopefully becoming 3-A would be Roshi, considering he fought base Goku (suppressed) while possessed, and he fought (Ganos?) who got stronger every second, and stated that he would become a nuisance to Goku if he was allowed to get stronger.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I agree with Dark649, scaling is crazy but we decided not to scale the humans because it would be insane.

Killin only pushed out Gohan because he used the Solar Flare x100 which blinded him and blocked his ability to sense him. I don't need to explain that fight with him and Goku because it... I just don't need to explain it.

18 has no real feats, she is never compared to anyone, she has not statements saying she trained and she never fought any that high. Her only thing she has is kicking Goku's Kamahamaha... That was done if a fight that was full! Of PIS.

Roshi is close but! His fight with Goku doesn't mean much as Goku wasn't stated to be going full out and he knocked him out with a single Kamahamaha. His fight with Frost means nothing because Frost stated he was holding back to not kill someone so weak and the hits he did land on Frost did no damage. His only real thing thing that could legitimately make him 3-A is his fight with Ganos as bass Ganos was launching ki blast that Goku was blocking but couldn't just walk them but that's not to much but his statement that Ganos (who gets stronger each minute) would soon be a problem for Goku and since the tounament isnt that long Ganos would be bumping up Multi Galaxy with each increase if he would be a problem for Goku. Problem is Roshi states Goku and Krillin surpassed him and Krillin has no feats except for his insane PIS fight with Goku.

Tien... He lost to Roshi, so if Roshi isn't getting upgraded neither is he. Also him destroying the ring is only Large Star Level and him being able to harm that guy who can fire beams from his wrist that can harm Piccolo and Gohan means nothing as it was stated that those beams are condensed like the Special Beam Cannon.

Now I'm not gonna keep going because I think I explained it enough. You could make other claims but it's just too inconsistent for those guys to be 3-A. Hell, the humans don't even get the "we have great potential in Super like Goku, Gohan or Frieza nor have we seen their so called training.

I did make a thread regarding who is and who isn't 3-A but didn't think it was necessary but I guess I could finish it.

 

[RoyGundam]

The "they were just holding back" excuse is really inconsistent though, It has been arbitrarily decided that Goku and Vegeta were not "holding back" only against Frost, Cabba and Trio de Dangers, and were "holding back" against literally everyone else. Despite the fact that the "no killing" rule has applied consistently throughout all DBS tournaments

 

[AKM sama]

I just wanted to say that exchanging 3-4 punches with a guy isn't evidence that both are of same level. Even Basil had an exchange with Toppo at the same moment, does this make Basil blue+kaioken level? Magetta had an exchange with Toppo at the very same moment, does that make Magetta blue+kaioken level?

Base Goku also had an exchange against first form Frost back in U6 tournament. Does that make first form Frost > base Goku? It was clear that Goku was holdng back at that moment because he later almost stalemated third form Frost.

If Shosha and Kettol had a decent fight between them that lasted more than 3-4 punches, then it would have been obvious that both are at the same level. If anybody has any undeniable evidence which suggests that both are equal or Kettol wasn't holding back, then I am all for it. But going by Occam's razor, the assertion with the least number of assumptions is that Kettol was holding back against Shosha.

Therefore Shosha and by extension, Krillin, should not scale to Kettol.

 

[Dark649]

The characters which are 3-A have valid reasons for being as such, the others clearly not.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

A lot of good points made against it. One more thing I found for 18 though: 1

In this fight Goku is being held down by the Pride Trooper Tupper. 18 saves Goku by blasting Tupper's back which visibly hurts him. Goku even thanks 18 for saving him. She is then shown being able to pick up Tupper and ring him out. That fight seems to portray Goku and 18 as not far away from each other.

 

[IkaniL]

The only way they should be legitimately upgraded to 3-A is if they continue to display these levels of feats beyond this. That way we would know the writers are at that point considering them as comparable to Goku and the others. And even though they didn't neccessarily gain the power in a reasonable fashion, their feats would be consistant enough for it.

 

[Dark649]

The writers clearly forgot their previous levels of power and decided, why not scale everyone to 3-A including those that never trained?. Matthew told me that is a dumb reason to upgrade them.

 

[PaChi2]

The difference between the humans and the new characters is that the humans have a ton of feats that disprove the 3-A rating while the new guys usually are portrayed as giving the established 3-As somewhat of a fight.

 

[IkaniL]

Yes, but if the writers continuously portray them at this level, or comparable to the likes of Goku. Then at some point it won't be pis anymore.

 

[AKM sama]

A lot of good points made against it. One more thing I found for 18 though: 1
In this fight Goku is being held down by the Pride Trooper Tupper. 18 saves Goku by blasting Tupper's back which visibly hurts him. Goku even thanks 18 for saving him. She is then shown being able to pick up Tupper and ring him out. That fight seems to portray Goku and 18 as not far away from each other.

18 hurting Tupper has nothing to do with scaling because Goku never tried to hurt him. Tupper was only relevant to Goku because he was increasing his weight when clinging to Goku as indicated by a dark red aura and Goku sinking down the ground.

When 18 lifted Tupper there was no dark red aura and no sinking down the ground. So I think Tupper was not exerting that much weight on 18 as he was exerting on Goku.


On another note, can we find out the weight Goku was lifting by this feat? Because damaging katchi katchin is only possible by at least high star level characters. Can we equate the force exerted by a star tier character to the weight exerted by Tupper?

 

[Dark649]

The katchi katchin is not stellar in lifting stength.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

On another note, can we find out the weight Goku was lifting by this feat? Because damaging katchi katchin is only possible by at least high star level characters. Can we equate the force exerted by a star tier character to the weight exerted by Tupper?

Someone already attempted this. The calc group members rejected it I think.

 

[PaChi2]

Could this be closed? It has been rejected right?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Yeah. Three staff members other than you and I have rejected.