Possible Cosmic/Dark Star upgrades.

[WeeklyBattles]

Off the top of my head Gabriel (Guilty Gear) is 4-B solely for being considered a rival by Slayer

https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/rg-shurima-story/

"Nasus attacked first, his body going from motionless to blinding speed in the space between heartbeats. His legs pistoned him into the air, his axe swinging overhead in a downward arc. The blade smashed into Xerath's chest. Chain links exploded from the impact.

Xerath was hurled back into the walls of the temple. The stonework split apart and dust from the tomb far below billowed from zigzagging cracks. Vast panels of stone fell from the building. The magus hurled himself forward, searing beams of energy blazing from his crackling limbs. Nasus howled as Xerath's fire burned him, and they slammed together with ferocious power.

A shockwave of magical energy exploded outward, spinning people away like leaves in a hurricane. The nearest buildings collapsed as the seismic force shattered their walls. Vekaura's people fled, trying to find safety in the midst of these brawling gods of ancient days. His hold upon them broken, Xerath's warriors scattered and ran for the edges of the city. Flames erupted as Xerath called arcane fire from the heart of his being and unleashed it indiscriminately.

Nasus rolled aside as a series of glittering comets slammed down. Their fire was cold, but burned just the same. He rose to his feet in time to use his spinning axe blade to deflect a series of screeching orbs of white light. Xerath floated in the air above him, laughing as forking lightning blazed around him. Nasus thrust his blade at the magus to unleash a burst of withering power. Xerath roared in pain and anger, the fire at his heart flickering, but undimmed.

Nasus leapt toward Xerath. They grappled in mid-air to smash into the sun temple once again. The impact shattered the outer wall and huge blocks of stone toppled from the summit. They slammed down like the fists of ancient tomb guardians, cracking the earth and exposing the temple's shadowed crypts. The remains of the sun disc fell from the roof, tumbling downward like the flipped coin of a giant. It shattered as it hit the ground, sending gleaming metal scything in all directions. A shard buried itself in the meat of Nasus's thigh. He wrenched it clear, and shimmering blood ran down his leg.

Xerath rose from the wreckage of shattered stone and a searing bolt of pale fire struck Nasus in the chest. He grunted and staggered backward. Xerath unleashed another torrent of glittering magical energy and this time it hammered Nasus's heart. The pain was all-consuming and he fell to his knees, his skin scorched and raw. Nasus could fight a mortal army single-handed, but Xerath was no ordinary foe. He was an Ascended being who wielded the stolen strength of the sun and the power of dark magic."

Yeah no, Nasus put up a fight against Xerath without transforming.

Also thank you for making me go back and re-read it to find a resistance to Age Mnip for Xerath

 

[WeeklyBattles]

"Nasus came to a halt in the midst of the rubble, his legs broken and twisted beneath him. His left arm hung uselessly at his side, shattered from shoulder to wrist. He tried to push himself upright with his good arm, but white hot pain surged up his spine where his back had broken. His body could heal these wounds in time, but he had no time left."

What level of regen would this be?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Did you miss the part where he transformed here in part 7?:


'Nasus let the fury of the sands fill him, his limbs surging with power and his body swelling as the desert's wrath manifested within his dark flesh. His form loomed and grew, towering and monstrous like the first Ascended were said to be.'

Later on it's mentioned that he's stalling for time so that he can heal up thanks to his transformation.

Part 11

'Nasus grunted in pain. The splintered bones in his shoulder ground together as they began reknitting. He felt strength returning to his arm, but kept it limp and useless looking.

"What will you do when I am dead?" said Nasus, remembering how much Xerath had loved the sound of his own voice. "What will become of Shurima with you as its emperor?"

He tried to keep the pain hidden as his transformed flesh worked wonders within his body to undo the damage Xerath had done.'

 

[RegisNex1232]

Re: Gabriel, I still don't see how that's indicative of a general policy we use here. Maybe he needs revisions, but that's not my area of expertise.

 

[RegisNex1232]

"Nasus came to a halt in the midst of the rubble, his legs broken and twisted beneath him. His left arm hung uselessly at his side, shattered from shoulder to wrist. He tried to push himself upright with his good arm, but white hot pain surged up his spine where his back had broken. His body could heal these wounds in time, but he had no time left."

What level of regen would this be?

It seems to happen in seconds, maybe Mid level?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

"Nasus came to a halt in the midst of the rubble, his legs broken and twisted beneath him. His left arm hung uselessly at his side, shattered from shoulder to wrist. He tried to push himself upright with his good arm, but white hot pain surged up his spine where his back had broken. His body could heal these wounds in time, but he had no time left."

What level of regen would this be?

Like Low-Mid. For some reason he has Mid-High on his profile though. When did he come back from being disintegrated?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Assalt I agreed to change it a little while ago, he was originally scaled to Azir's regen level

 

[Promestein]

Low-Mid.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Re: Gabriel, I still don't see how that's indicative of a general policy we use here. Maybe he needs revisions, but that's not my area of expertise.

Because if someone considers you their rival, there is no reason to assume youre exponentially weaker than them

 

[RegisNex1232]

I don't think he has.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nasus didnt, Azir did, and Nasus was scaled to it when he shouldnt have been

 

[RegisNex1232]

I thought there was still something left of Azir's body, which is how Sivir's blood + magic brought him back.

Re: Fiora, Prom and Assalt, what are your thoughts? Considering that all we have is Jax's thoughts.

 

[Promestein]

Fine either way.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Unless Jax is wrong, if he considered someone his equal that should scale.

 

[RegisNex1232]

He never states that she's an equal, only that she's a worthy opponent. Not exactly hard fact that she's a peer to him, especially when we compare overall feats (one is very skilled in one on one fencing while the other has with help taken down Ascendants and seems to be just as good with all sorts of weapons).

 

[The_Everlasting]

Being a worthy opponent implies some sort of parity.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Regis You can use that logic to downgrade a LOT of verses here

 

[RegisNex1232]

Implication isn't fact. Fiora doesn't have anything else to support that implication so I don't see why she'd scale. If they actually show a continuation of the fight and it's shown that she can fight on that level then I'm fine with the scaling.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Being a worthy opponent means that it's at least not going to be a stomp when they fight. This intuitively means that, at least, the sum of their combat capabilities should not be apart by an entire order of magnitude (if it is that far apart then, quite evidently, it will be a stomp).

 

[RegisNex1232]

Either way, it's still not shown, and I don't see the point in scaling when there's no real proof other than one statement. Note that said statement was based on a first impression before the fight happened and that we never get to see what happens next. Like I've said, if we do get the aftermath of the fight, and if it supports the previous impression then I have no problem with the scaling. Right now, there's no real proof, so why should we scale them if we want accurate ratings?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Becaue is would be an accurate rating

 

[The_Everlasting]

We have no realistic reason to doubt it. If a character considers another a worthy rival, it clearly implies they're at least somewhat comparable.

 

[RegisNex1232]

We do have a reason to doubt it, considering the recent Void/Icathian story where we do see an impressive feat for Jax, namely helping to take down an Ascendant, even beheading one in the process. Fiora has nothing on that level, so all we have is Jax's initial thoughts, which don't remotely imply anything power wise. So all there is supporting the scaling is a character's thoughts before they fight, an unseen fight which we know nothing about and people's headcanon. I'd think it takes a bit more than that to scale.

 

[The_Everlasting]

And feats invalidate scaling since when?

 

[RegisNex1232]

When they don't support it. When one's feats are a lot more impressive than the other's and only a character's thoughts at the start of their first encounter is used to justify that scaling.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Again, feats don't invalidate scaling like you're acting it does.

Does Zamasu suddenly not scale to Goku because he never displayed Universal feats? No, because that's ridiculous.

 

[RegisNex1232]

We actually see Zamasu fight with Goku though, here we don't even get to see the fight, so I don't know why you're bringing it up.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I bring it up because your argument of feats is completely meaningless.

 

[RegisNex1232]

How? I mean your example isn't even relevant to the discussion, and I've pointed out that there isn't much supporting the scaling, so where's the mistake?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Because denying scaling based on "one character has better feats" is ridiculous and completely goes against how scaling actually works.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I thought scaling works if there is reliable proof that can be used, like an even fight/stomp/reliable statements along with the character's feats. Here we have the feats, but no indication on how the fight went and only one statement made at the start of the fight.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

RegisNex1232 while I acknowledge the point you have raised, my counter-point is that Jax and Fiora's combat power should still not be apart by an entire order of magnitude regardless of which tier they end up. Fiora should still not be below him by an entire OOM.

Again, even if Fiora is somewhat 'weaker' in some narrative sense, it would still be 'weaker' within the same order of magnitude, not weaker by being an entire magnitude below it. Humans don't consider ants worthy opponent; they call it pest control. That's the proposed difference in magnitude we are looking at (the proposal not to scale).

 

[RegisNex1232]

RegisNex1232 while I acknowledge the point you have raised, my counter-point is that Jax and Fiora's combat power should still not be apart by an entire order of magnitude regardless of which tier they end up. Fiora should still not be below him by an entire OOM.

Why though? I've pointed out that there's little reasoning supporting that assumption and I'll also acknowledge that there's little reasoning opposing it. I'd rather wait and see rather than immediately go straight for the changes.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

RegisNex1232 while I acknowledge the point you have raised, my counter-point is that Jax and Fiora's combat power should still not be apart by an entire order of magnitude regardless of which tier they end up. Fiora should still not be below him by an entire OOM.

Why though? I've pointed out that there's little reasoning supporting that assumption and I'll also acknowledge that there's little reasoning opposing it. I'd rather wait and see rather than immediately go straight for the changes.

Why should Jax honor the strength of literal ants?

(Read second paragraph of the edited previous post for context)

 

[RegisNex1232]

Except that they're both human (at least Jax was a long time ago), and people tend to have things like emotion and empathy that kind of prevents them from treating other inferior (in comparison) humans like ants, various counter examples notwithstanding. Either way, this is still going into speculation, which is nice to talk about, but is not used in tiering characters as most of the time the reasonings behind their tiers tends to have proof.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except Jax literally fought another human right before Fiora and treated him like a kid swinging around a stick, even taunting him by saying he'd go easy on him. Him saying Fiora is an oponent worth fighting and treating her as a rival is not in any way speculation

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Except that they're both human (at least Jax was a long time ago), and people tend to have things like emotion and empathy that kind of prevents them from treating other inferior (in comparison) humans like ants, various counter examples notwithstanding. Either way, this is still going into speculation, which is nice to talk about, but is not used in tiering characters as most of the time the reasonings behind their tiers tends to have proof.

Jax did not have problem treating other opponents like ants however (especially in the context of over the course of his thousands of years fighting one human after the next untold number of times).

Your reasoning would have actually been pretty sound if only the end result did not set Fiora and Jax apart by an order of magnitude. The solution is actually to put both in the same tier even while Fiora is weaker than Jax (weaker within the same order of magnitude) but you don't want to accept it (by this I mean you don't want to accept the proposal).

 

[RegisNex1232]

Uh, he says that stuff at the start of the fight which we, need I remind you, never see. AKA we don't know what happens other than initial reactions and so how can we scale using only the initial reactions? You'll need more than that to justify the scaling.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Uh, he says that stuff at the start of the fight which we, need I remind you, never see. AKA we don't know what happens other than initial reactions and so how can we scale using only the initial reactions? You'll need more than that to justify the scaling.

"I'll not waste words on you, monster" said the warrior, assuming the same fighting stance all the others had. Jax sighed, disappointed the defeat of the fifteen men before this one hadn't taught them anything.

She marched past the men at the end of the bridge and strode toward him, moving with a perfect economy of motion, utterly in balance and supremely confident in her skill. Her features were angular and patrician, framed by dark hair streaked with crimson. Her eyes were cold and unforgiving. They promised only death.

"Who are you?" asked Jax, intrigued.

"My name is Fiora of House Laurent" she said, drawing her weapon, a dueling saber that gleamed with a perfect edge. "And this is my bridge."

Jax grinned beneath his mask.

Finally, an opponent worth fighting!


You can readily observe how far Jax's "initial impressions" massively differ between an ant and Fiora.

The 'great warriors could already gauge each other's strength within just their first few impressions' is a very common trope in traditional storytelling. As old and common as 'great minds think alike'. It's nothing new.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Yes, I know they differ, considering I've got the story opened up in another tab. I'm saying that it doesn't really say anything about their respective strengths and we never get to see the fight play out, so how can we scale them at all?