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Pokemon's Verse Cleanup

00potato said:
The first of those statements doesn't mean that they scale to each other though just that in the games they are at minimum as strong as anime characters.
Click to expand...
... That's what we're saying tho, the feats of strenght scale. And beisdes that, we still have stuff like Ash's Greninja in the game, just in case you missed that, or references to Alain on ORAS.
 
00potato said:
The first of those statements doesn't mean that they scale to each other though just that in the games they are at minimum as strong as anime characters. If I break a wooden plank then someone far stronger then me could still break the wood Plank.
Click to expand...
That depends on what type of wood you are using as some are easier to break than others.
 
The real cal howard said:
If you wanna argue on what's a better rpg when it comes to pure gameplay, show me one with half as good of a competitive scene.
And that's not the point of the thread.

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/583318907302182914/651265354982752256/unknown.png

http://web.archive.org/web/20121128...n-39-s-burning-questions.aspx?PostPageIndex=1

https://web.archive.org/web/20000622095516/http://www.vizkids.com/pokemon/adventures/characters.html

Here's your statements.
Click to expand...
I think they should be linked in the Pokemon's profiles in notes.
 
The real cal howard said:
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/583318907302182914/651265354982752256/unknown.png
Click to expand...
Actualy, this one is saying that back in BW2 he said the pic in the tweet, but nowadays when Sword and Shield released he said Ash doesn't exist in the games, so it seems Masuda went back on his word

Like, he is saying that he said Ash doesn't exist in the games recentely, but back then he said pic related
 
Wait Masuda went back on his word?, I see (I'm guessing this is why WoG is often taken with a pinch of salt on VSBW), either way the useable feats should be added to the pokémon profiles/page while the explanations of the canon should be added to the verse page.

Like I said earlier unless we want more threads like this one, we need to make sure the jurisdictions are both air and water tight (especially for folks who might not be knowledgeable on the verse, Pokémon is a huge a franchise with multiple sources to draw from).
 
I mean in the first statement Masuda himself seems to be indecisive on it. He states "...or in some select spots being a parallel world might be more accurate..." This shows that even though there is overlap, they aren't 1 to 1. The manga statement doesn't prove anything related to scaling. It just says that it is the world he wanted to show.
 
Ash himself is never mentioned at all. Also how would ash's greninja getting a new form allow other trainers to get the exact same form? You need to prove that Ash greninja exists due to the same ash that is in the anime.
 
It's called Ash-Greninja, a name explicity made up by Bonnie. It has the same design traits Ash had on the XY series. There's also the friggin letter that comes with it.
 
You need more solid proof then a few references for the scaling of almost an entire verse. This also doesn't need to be the exact same Ash. Two small references don't make two different series canon to each other.
 
>This also doesn't need to be the exact same Ash

So we're gonna assume that a parallel ash exists even though there's no proof?
 
Also can anyone give me the statement about there being only one Arceus, that could help me in some debates.
 
...that's it?

That doesn't seem like anything to me, actually. "Across time and space, one heart." That doesn't imply there's only one Arceus in the multiverse. Universe? Absolutely. But there's no mention of anything else.

Not to mention you can get multiple event Arceuses on the same cartridge, or other Pokemon there should be explicitly one of without trading.

What are we counting events as, by the way? Canon? Not canon? It's being used as evidence for the Ash-Greninja debacle (there was an Ash's Pikachu in HGSS, if I recall as well), but we don't count event-only moves on profiles. Case in point, Magikarp: Celebrate and Happy Hour are nowhere to be seen, and neither is Rayquaza's V-Create event.
 
There's also the fact that those "Time and Space" would scale to Dilga and Palkia's "Time and Space", with the latter being referred to as the creator of the parrallel dimensions
 
Nemo212 said:
...that's it?
That doesn't seem like anything to me, actually. "Across time and space, one heart." That doesn't imply there's only one Arceus in the multiverse. Universe? Absolutely. But there's no mention of anything else.

Not to mention you can get multiple event Arceuses on the same cartridge, or other Pokemon there should be explicitly one of without trading.

What are we counting events as, by the way? Canon? Not canon? It's being used as evidence for the Ash-Greninja debacle (there was an Ash's Pikachu in HGSS, if I recall as well), but we don't count event-only moves on profiles. Case in point, Magikarp: Celebrate and Happy Hour are nowhere to be seen, and neither is Rayquaza's V-Create event.
Click to expand...
Just because the moves aren't there doesn't mean we don't use them,it just means that some profiles are missing them.
 
So have the more reliable feats been applied yet?, I know I'm beating a dead Rapidash here but without solid jurisdictions, more threads questioning the legitimacy of the scaling will only pop up again in the future.
 
There's the Diglett and Rhydon feats that we can use to scale Unevolved Pokemon, but The Horsea and Pikachu feats have been debunked, and there's the feat of Pikachu's attack against the Spearows and Drowzee tanking a large explosion, they should be calced.
 
Can we calc these Pokedex entries?

Pokemon Sapphire/Alpha Sapphire: Aron has a body of steel. With one all-out charge, this Pokémon can demolish even a heavy dump truck. The destroyed dump truck then becomes a handy meal for the Pokémon.

Pokemon Ruby, Sapphire, Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Black, White, Black 2, White 2, Y and Omega Ruby talk about Bagon leaping off cliffs. Pokemon FireRed, LeafGreen, HeartGold, SoulSilver and X talk about it smashing boulders into pieces. Pokemon Sapphire just say it can shatter huge rocks into pebbles.

I just thought this was funny. Pokemon Sword's Baltoy Pokedex Entry "It moves while spinning around on its single foot. Some Baltoy have been seen spinning on their heads."

Most of Bidoof's pokedex entries talk about it gnawing on rocks with Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver saying it chews up boulders. I swear to god if Bidoof has an 8-A feat on his own with out scaling to anybody, I am going to be pissed!

Onix can dig through the ground at 50 MPH or 80 km/h. A 28 foot snake made entirely out of rock moving 50 MPH would generate how many joules of energy if it hit?
 
HenryWong122 said:
Onix can dig through the ground at 50 MPH or 80 km/h. A 28 foot snake made entirely out of rock moving 50 MPH would generate how many joules of energy if it hit?
Click to expand...
Um, How can we calculate Onix's volume and by extention, its weight? (And yes, I know that there is an official weight for him as well but you can't expect me to accept that a giant ROCK snake literally weigh only 210 kg. Especially since even humans that would be half his size would weigh much much more than Onix based on square-cube law)
 
Nemo212 said:
...that's it?
That doesn't seem like anything to me, actually. "Across time and space, one heart." That doesn't imply there's only one Arceus in the multiverse. Universe? Absolutely. But there's no mention of anything else.

Not to mention you can get multiple event Arceuses on the same cartridge, or other Pokemon there should be explicitly one of without trading.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind this game explicitly contains separate universes. It's not just referring to a single universe. 'Event' Arceus are just Arceus avatars, which aren't omnipresent. And I agree that we should make our standards on event Pokemon more clear.
 
Gilad Hyperstar said:
HenryWong122 said:
Onix can dig through the ground at 50 MPH or 80 km/h. A 28 foot snake made entirely out of rock moving 50 MPH would generate how many joules of energy if it hit?
Click to expand...
Um, How can we calculate Onix's volume and by extention, its weight? (And yes, I know that there is an official weight for him as well but you can't expect me to accept that a giant ROCK snake literally weigh only 210 kg. Especially since even humans that would be half his size would weigh much much more than Onix based on square-cube law)
Click to expand...
Seeing how Onix is serpentine, his height would actually be his length. Also, 210 kg is not that much heavier than the reticulated python which happens to be the world's longest snake at 30 ft/9.144 meters.
 
@Henry I already responded to that comment, no need to repost.
 
HenryWong122 said:
Seeing how Onix is serpentine, his height would actually be his length. Also, 210 kg is not that much heavier than the reticulated python which happens to be the world's longest snake at 30 ft/9.144 meters.
Click to expand...
Yes but Onix is made of stone, which is at least 3 times as dense as humans. Or snakes
 
Onix moves with 50mph, or 22.352 m/s, and weighs 210 kg. KE = 1/2 * m * v^2, so its kinetic energy is 52459 joules.

The weight may be a lowball, but even if we assumed the weight was 10x that or 100x that, the results would still be in the wall level range (it'd be 10x or 100x that result respectively. We'd be better off finding how much soil/rock it pulverises with the tunnels it burrows.
 
Here's another thing I want to bring up. You mention the Pokedex weight for Onix, but I think those are... problematic. Dubiously canon. I mean, based on some of the Pokedex statistics, seems that we're to believe that most Pokemon are made of styrofoam (Rapidash is 209 pounds? Kyogre 12 times less than an orca? Diglett and Dugtrio even having a calculable weight in the first place?), and there are numerous discrepancies between the games and the anime/manga for height and length.

Not to mention Pokemon Go, which has ridiculous statistics for extra small and extra large Pokemon. And I assume we're assuming Pokemon Go is... canon, since the lightspeed Golem calc got accepted.

Would it be more worthwhile to try and calc height/length/weight based on the anime for feats? In general, not just for Onix.
 
Nemo212 said:
Here's another thing I want to bring up. You mention the Pokedex weight for Onix, but I think those are... problematic. Dubiously canon. I mean, based on some of the Pokedex statistics, seems that we're to believe that most Pokemon are made of styrofoam (Rapidash is 209 pounds? Kyogre 12 times less than an orca?), and there are numerous discrepancies between the games and the anime/manga for height and length.

Not to mention Pokemon Go, which has ridiculous statistics for extra small and extra large Pokemon. And I assume we're assuming Pokemon Go is... canon, since the lightspeed Golem calc got accepted.

Would it be more worthwhile to try and calc height/length/weight based on the anime for feats? In general, not just for Onix.
Click to expand...
You forgot also 380kg for Wailord, which literally makes him less dense than air
 
I mean the weight hardly matters, it'd have to be millions of times higher to be 8-A. I tried calcing Onix's burrowing feat where it creates tunnels, digging through large boulders, but that only got 8-C results.
 
Gilad Hyperstar said:
You forgot also 380kg for Wailord, which literally makes him less dense than air
Click to expand...
Wailord I can believe, since it's the Float Whale Pokemon.

@GyroNutz I'm just saying in general, future feats might have more reliable results with anime statistics.
 
This is the reason Onix has Small City level durability:

"Onix is described as being "hard as diamonds" and should have this level of durability through sheer size and hardness of its skin."
 
Where is Onix described as being hard as diamonds?

I think you're thinking of Steelix, since it's described as harder than diamond in most of its Pokedex pages. Onix doesn't even have a profile on this site. And when I checked, I found something interesting.

"This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

  • 12:36, May 27, 2016 KuuIchigo (wall | contribs) deleted page Onix (Deleting due to new rules about no non-legendaries Pokemon.)"
What was all this about? And the guy that deleted this page is... blocked now?
 
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