Pokemon's Verse Cleanup

[GyroNutz]

"Are we assuming a Pokemon (say, Vulpix) will have all its possible wild held items during a match, and be able to use all of them?"

Yes

"I was revising its equipment a few years ago, and I realized that Berry and Burnt Berry have been retconned into the Oran and Aspear berries, respectively. Should I put them down, or the original items from R/B/Y and G/S/C?"

If an item's been deleted from the game, it shouldn't be included on the profiles in general. Put down the oran/aspear berries.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Gigantamax Pikachu scales to Giganatamax Corviknight and Sandaconda. Neither have profiles. What's backing them up?

The Corviknight Scaling was debunked, Gigantimax Pokemon are getting downgraded, we just need to find something to scale them to.

 

[Cropfist]

They cannot scale above their base form's stats?

 

[Nemo212]

Yeah, they're the exact same statwise, save for HP. They don't gain anything save for maybe anything that would logically come with size.

 

[Nemo212]

(I just realized that I said years when I meant seconds. Excuse the malfunctioning of my only brain cell.)

 

[Overlord775]

@Nemo

Gameplay-wise they don't get any stronger, but lore-wise they get a shitton more powerfull, like about every pokedex entry of them is about how they are STRONK and such

BTW, we also have the example of that one Abomasnow in X&Y that had Mega-Stone and was about to Mega-Evolve on his own

 

[Nemo212]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dracovish

Why are we trusting the Pokedex entries of the Galar fossils?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

How does it even have a pokedex entry, wasn't that creature created on the spot?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because pokedex entries are based on what pokemon have been observed doing

 

[Overlord775]

Well, the pokedex analyses a pokemon and that's what's dysplayed to us

i think their entires may be a "What if" of the combined fossil pokemons existing in the prehystoric era

 

[Robot972]

Okay, the galar fossils are a special case.

Their entries should be taken with a grain of salt, as the Pokémon are definitely not real, but the negatives stated are likely very much accurate

For those unaware, they're likely based off the Bone Wars back in the 1800s, where two rival paleontologists bullshitted their way to try and "discover" more dinosaurs than each other. This lead to them combining random bones from different dinosaurs to claim they were real.

In the case of the galar fossils, Cara Liss is just playing this role. The other halves of the fossils are as of yet undiscovered and Cara Liss has tricked people into believing that they're real dinos.

 

[Overlord775]

... which doesn't really work in the pokemon setting since from Gen 1 only a piece of the pokemon was needed to revive them

 

[Robot972]

Okay?

Perhaps if they only resurrected one piece, then it would be the right Pokémon, but Cara, the only person in the game with resurrection tech, is taking two pieces and combining them in the resurrection process, hence the combinations.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Aerodactyl was an obvious Jurassic Park reference, with it being revived by the old amber.

 

[Overlord775]

Praise the almighty elix fossil

 

[Nemo212]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Eiscue

Eiscue needs the TM/TR moves out of its profile.

 

[Robot972]

I think there's a few Pokémon that need TM removed, but I'd need to double check which profiles have them.

 

[00potato]

Couldn't we just put them in a different key/tab rather then completely ignore their existence? They would still have them but not as wild Pokémon.

 

[Overlord775]

It's outside equipment they get from trainers and the profiles are for wild pokemons, so no

 

[00potato]

Yes but we shouldn't just disregard the TM's completely, why not make it optional equipment?

 

[Overlord775]

Because it's not Optional Equipment, Wild Pokemons CAN'T have TM moves

 

[00potato]

You missed the point, the point is that we shouldn't just ignore a good chunk of moves, whether it is a different key, equipment, or whatever we do with digimon hax nonsense, it shouldn't be ignored like that.

 

[Nemo212]

You missed the point, the point is that we shouldn't just ignore a good chunk of moves, whether it is a different key, equipment, or whatever we do with digimon hax nonsense, it shouldn't be ignored like that.

No, you're missing the point, actually.

If I strap an automated turret to the back of a horse, that's not something it's going to have without human intervention. I'm ignoring all the weapons of war I could strap to a horse and go buck wild with because newsflash, wild horses don't have guns strapped to their back.

Likewise, if I teach my Rapidash Mystical Fire with a TM, that's also not something it's going to have without human intervention. I'm ignoring all the TMs I can teach my Rapidash and go buck wild with because newsflash, wild Rapidashes don't have TM moves.

Whenever you think about arguing for putting TM moves in the profiles, I want you to think twice before you post, and remember this image.

 

[NeoZex6399]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1082613

 

[00potato]

But you fail to realize, unlike your ridiculous horse example, TM's are something that are uses notably in verse. By this logic, every character that has equipment they were given should have that equipment removed because of outside intervention.

 

[Overlord775]

doesn't matter if TMs are a big thing, they are assets used by trainers, no wild pokemon can have them

it would be the same as giving a pokemon all heldable items

 

[00potato]

I am saying we should have a separate key/form with trainer based items/TM's I specified that it would be different form or at least optional in the first or second post on this subject. Also what Pokémon could even hold all held items? there are a lot of those.

 

[SomebodyData]

Tbf, as a species page, Pokemon already breaks most of the rules since its supposed to be the average member of the species, not its hypothetical peak. So you could make an argument for TMs from that stance.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Yeah due to it's nature as a verse Pokémon (within reason) does get special allowances however when do we draw the line?.

Pokémon is a HUGE verse and I doubt the issues brought up by the folks here will be resolved anytime soon that said we can't leave things the way they are... :/

 

[00potato]

Easy solution delete all Pokémon profiles, can't have a problem with a non-existant verse.

 

[Overlord775]

I am saying we should have a separate key/form with trainer based items/TM's I specified that it would be different form or at least optional in the first or second post on this subject.

It can't be, because that would be a trained pokemon, who are WAAAAY too varied in power showings to be ratable.

 

[GyroNutz]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Eiscue
Eiscue needs the TM/TR moves out of its profile.

Yeah, I'll take credit for this. I told a guy that we accepted TM moves as a separate tab (as per the thread that was linked above) but in hindsight it makes no sense for the tab to be a thing.

 

[Nemo212]

Tbf, as a species page, Pokemon already breaks most of the rules since its supposed to be the average member of the species, not its hypothetical peak. So you could make an argument for TMs from that stance.

So why do we have them at their hypothetical peak if they're untrained species profiles, anyways?

 

[SomebodyData]

Like I said, breaking the rules.

Not that another CRT would help after I bring out the good ol'd canon & 4 moves CRT

 

[GyroNutz]

They're at their hypothetical peak without training. Stuff that's exclusive to training shouldn't be on the profiles.

It's a lot simpler than trying to determine what the 'average' of each species is.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah no TMs and HMs shouldnt be included in profiles for non-trainer pokemon

 

[Robot972]

Should I go through and see what profiles do have TMs? I know there's at least a few.

 

[Overlord775]

you may do it

 

[Cropfist]

I don't know why TM moves were added.

 

[Imaginym]

Having seen all the earlier argument about Pikachu's tier & many people bringing up Ash's Pikachu.... Well, I don't recall if it's too great (As in, an outlier.) compared to the yield other 8-A Pokemon were scaled to, but Pikachu's Red, Blue & Leaf Green Pokedex entries state:

"When several of these POKéMON gather, their electricity could/can build and cause lightning storms."

(Using "could" in Red/Blue, "can" in Leaf Green, if that matters at all.)

Couldn't we take a typical electrical storm's yield, assume a quantity of Pikachu for "several", & divide the result/yield by the quantity of Pikachu? (Also, possibly assume a timeframe for electricity building.)

Such a feat -outlier or not- is probably more easily attributed to the Pikachu species, rather than Ash's one, since, obviously, I doubt he has multiple Pikachu.