Pokemon's Verse Cleanup

[Monkey_Dunno]

I think you're thinking of Steelix, since it's described as harder than diamond in most of its Pokedex pages. Onix doesn't even have a profile on this site. And when I checked, I found something interesting.

"This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

irc, It was because previously there was a rule against making non-legendary Pokémon page profiles. As you have seen, things change.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I have no idea.

 

[Nemo212]

Well, we can find a source for it, or delete the statistic. There's only two options.

 

[Nemo212]

Can we calc these Pokedex entries?
Most of Bidoof's pokedex entries talk about it gnawing on rocks with Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver saying it chews up boulders. I swear to god if Bidoof has an 8-A feat on his own with out scaling to anybody, I am going to be pissed!

From Wikipedia: "In geology, a boulder is a rock fragment with size greater than 25.6 centimetres (10.1 in) in diameter."

Needless to say, you're not going to get anything impressive out of that.

Chewing up I assume is going to mean fragmentation (8 J/cc), the boulder is made of rock (Granite's density is 2.75 g/cm3), and we can assume it's a sphere that's 25.61 cm in diameter. Sphere calculator says it's going to have a mass of 193.48621925375 kg.

 

[HenryWong122]

Onix's Pokemon LeafGreen Pokedex entries: As it grows, the stone portions of its body harden to become similar to black-colored diamonds.

 

[Nemo212]

Ah. But could that not be perceived as growing into Steelix? In which case, that's null.

In fact, I have proof to support this. Steelix's Sword entry states "It is said that if an Onix lives for over 100 years, its composition changes to become diamond-like." Given that it's Steelix's entry, the implication is that it's grown into Steelix after a hundred years, not stayed as an Onix.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

'black-colored diamonds"

 

[Nemo212]

'black-colored diamonds"

I'm well aware of that. Observe the black portion uncovered by Steelix's lack of plating near its eye, or how Steelix's mouth is black when opened, as well as the black parts of Mega Steelix. I rest my case. Clearly, Steelix's black-colored diamonds are on its interior.

 

[Nemo212]

So I'm a dumbass and forgot how to do the last part of the Bidoof calc, but I remember now.

- Sphere is 25.61 cm in diameter, radius is 12.805 cm

- Volume is 8794.83 cm^3

- We multiply 8794.83 times fragmentation (8) to get 70358.64 J

- This is Wall level (9-B)

 

[HenryWong122]

Wall level Bidoof. GOOD!

 

[Nemo212]

Going to need some help getting the Horsea scaling out of these profiles. We know it's inaccurate, so we can at least get rid of mentioning it in other articles. Changing Horsea's key itself is going to need a calc, which I've expressed the difficulty of numerous times before.

 

[Nemo212]

Someone is going to have to explain to me how in the hell Pokemon can fling items at nearly 9 million meters a second.

And what exactly is heavier than 110 pounds (Zwelious's weight) that a Pokemon is holding? Not the Iron Ball, which is likely comparable to an actual cannonball. Not the Electrizer, which is likely comparable to a car battery if we're being generous. Maybe Room Service if we assume it's actually, you know, an entire ass room service cart loaded with food.

EDIT: Why does Magnemite have Class 25 lifting strength?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Because of seismic toss.

And I have no clue to why Magnemite has class 25 lifting.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wait what? How pokenon can throw items at 1/3c?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Wait what? How pokenon can throw items at 1/3c?

Seismic toss and the item is the Pokemon the're beating.

 

[Nemo212]

So is there a calc?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

So is there a calc?

Yes

 

[Overlord775]

@Neno

That page is outdated too, should be massivelly hypersonic+

 

[Nemo212]

Oh, Christ. Okay. We can discuss that later, but I think another priority of ours should be sorting all the Pokemon calculations into a single "Pokemon Calculations" category. Hell, the verses are supposed to have all the calcs on the verse page, and we don't even have that.

 

[Nemo212]

@Neno
That page is outdated too, should be massivelly hypersonic+

@Overnord

So the Seismic Toss calc has been debunked/replaced?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

@Neno
That page is outdated too, should be massivelly hypersonic+

@Overnord
So the Seismic Toss calc has been debunked/replaced?

Nope, Magnemite still uses it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yes

That's not 1/3c though. It's more like 1/30c. Still pretty damn fast

 

[GyroNutz]

Nope, Magnemite still uses it.

I'll fix that. Seismic toss scaling got debunked, now they just upscale in speed from first stage Pokemon.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

EDIT: Why does Magnemite have Class 25 lifting strength?

He scales over Mantyke.

 

[Nemo212]

Where is the Strength calc? Charmander mentions it but doesn't link to it.

Furthermore, why does Charmeleon have Class 50?

 

[Overlord775]

probably by scaling to some other mons, like machamp's evolution line

 

[Nemo212]

Is the Machamp line not a special case when it comes to Lifting Strength? I mean, it's literally powerlifting: the Pokemon.

Anyways, here's a real doozy I'm about to drop.

Our profiles are for wild Pokemon. If a Pokemon can't learn a move in the wild because it's too low level, then why is it on their profile?

For reference, let's take Pidgey. As far as I'm aware, the furthest level it's possible to encounter Pidgey in the wild is level 30 (X and Y's Friend Safari). It doesn't learn anything past 29 in those games, but its moveset was altered in Gen 7. It's impossible for a wild Pidgey to know Tailwind or Hurricane due to this, since they only learn those past level 30.

Egg Moves are also iffy for this reason. This problem doesn't really apply to Pokemon obtainable with Dexnav, since they have egg moves in the wild and can be drastically higher levels than other Pokemon in the area, but for those that can't be, like Pidgey, why can they be used?

For the record, none of these Pokemon are obtainable with Dexnav: https://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/unobtainable.shtml

 

[Overlord775]

Machamp ? yes

Machoke and Machop ? nah

also, our profiles are for hypotetical level 100 Pokemons with the best hereditary genome aka with all egg moves

 

[GyroNutz]

I think the class 50 and class 100 are just from scaling from different boulders using Strength.

DexNav just identifies and detects Pokemon, it doesn't give them egg moves. All that means is that wild Pokemon can have egg moves.

 

[Nemo212]

@GyroNutz Well, I'd like to see the strength calcs, wherever they are.

@Overlord775 I feel like we should mention that all the profiles are for hypothetical level 100 Übermensch Pokemon with every egg move and perfect EVs/IVs on the verse page, then, since it's really unclear.

 

[Overlord775]

we probably should

 

[Nemo212]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Rayquaza

All of Rayquaza's held items are from events, which already have a different OT, indicating they've been caught. It doesn't hold any of these in the wild. Should we purge them from the profiles?

Additionally, I don't think we can assume Pokemon with event moves can have them, since all of them have been caught.

 

[GyroNutz]

They don't have perfect EVs, that only exists for trained Pokemon. But yeah otherwise we should.

Idk where the strength calcs are, I've just heard about them before. I could try calcing them perhaps?

 

[GyroNutz]

Also yeah I'm all for purging any event stuff on profiles.

 

[Nemo212]

Okay, another thing.

Mega Evolution, unless your name is Rayquaza, can only be performed if the Pokemon is caught and has a strong bond with their trainer. They don't come holding the stones in the wild, either.

Likewise, some profiles, like Pikachu, mention Z-Crystals, which can't be used if the Pokemon is wild, since you need a Z-Ring and a trainer that's successful in the island challenge to do so.

Since our profiles are wild-only, what do we do with them?

 

[GyroNutz]

Pokemon can mega evolve without having a bond with a trainer, as shown by Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. We just assume they have the stone already.

 

[Nemo212]

Okay. What about Z-crystals/moves?

 

[GyroNutz]

Only Pokemon with signature Z-moves are assumed to be able to use them, and are assumed to have the signature Z-crystal. That's what I think at least, I've never seen that being brought up in a match.

 

[Nemo212]

But how can they be used if there's no trainer?

Regardless, clarification on standard equipment is needed.

Are we assuming a Pokemon (say, Vulpix) will have all its possible wild held items during a match, and be able to use all of them? I was revising its equipment a few seconds ago, and I realized that Berry and Burnt Berry have been retconned into the Oran and Aspear berries, respectively. Should I put them down, or the original items from R/B/Y and G/S/C?

For Pikachu, are we assuming it's Hat Pikachu, since only it can use Pikashunium Z?

Gigantamax Pikachu scales to Giganatamax Corviknight and Sandaconda. Neither have profiles. What's backing them up?

 

[GyroNutz]

Gigantamax Pikachu being 6-B is based off of wank that somehow scaled gigantamax Corviknight's winds to Lugia's 6-B storm. The lifting strength is legit though; Gigantamaxed Sandaconda carries a million tons of sand.