Pokémon Upgrades Part 2

[The_real_cal_howard]

Matt and Ant told me to make this a while ago, but I was hesitant because of the backlash, especially because of the stuff that happened. I promise this'll be less combative.

Continuation of this.

 

[PaChi2]

If you are so kind to give a small summarize of the situation...

 

[Dark649]

This my way if the scaling as an ex:

Start) Wall level via starter calc.

Mid) Multi-City Block level+ via Magneton and Pidgeotto calcs.

Adult) City level via Gyarados and Abomasnow calcs.

Adult Pseudos) Mountain level+ via Tyranitar calc.

Megas) At least Mountain level+.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Dark. What about trained Charizards being 7-A.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

7-B should be replaced with 7-A+, and don't create a distinction between Pseudos and normal (at best give them an At Least). Megas break into High 7-A.

 

[SomebodyData]

And what warrants pseudos scaling again?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

SD, I ninja'd you ovo

 

[SomebodyData]

Good lol

I agree with Cal

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And what about legendaries?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

6-C MHS+ via scaling to Shaymin. Or Low 6-B via scaling to Anime!Bird Trio

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I like Low 6-B. ovo

 

[Dark649]

I was using a game based scaled scale where the Pseudos are used at the end of the game and are stronger than the average adult pokemon, 7-A+ Game Charizard is only after training upon the elite 4, the Birds are at least High 7-A via Moltres calc and are weaker than Shaymin (Since there are no mentions of them taking on lugia).

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I can settle for Dark's suggestion.

However I would like to incorporate Charizard's 7-A+ feat.

 

[Overlord775]

wasn't that feat from pokemon mistery dungeon ?

 

[Dark649]

It comes comes a trained Charizard through and not from a Charizard that evolved an hour ago for ex.

 

[Anonimoe7875]

Yes it was

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We can say that Well-Trained Charizards are 7-A on his profile.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, Pseudos shouldn't be distinct from normal Pokemon, and 7-A+ works much better

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

It comes comes a trained Charizard through and not from a Charizard that evolved an hour ago for ex.

Since when does this mean that we cannot use the feat in its profile? There's no verse-exclusive rule regarding this.

 

[Dark649]

They evolve later than the average adult pokemon (Feraligator for ex) and are used by strong trainers, but if that is game mechanic and all the adult pokemon should be comparablem that can be fine for other continuities such as the anime, but it will cause problems with the game one, such as Mountain level+ Fouth Gym Eirika via Victrebeel, which is problematic.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Raichu is 8-A...

Also, Trainers stopped mattering a while back.

 

[Dark649]

Since when does this mean that we cannot use the feat in its profile? There's no verse-exclusive rule regarding this.

Charizard in his profile can be listed at 7-A+ with this feat, but the trainers with them already evolved are 7-B.

 

[Dark649]

Raichu is 8-A...
Also, Trainers stopped mattering a while back.

I changed it to Erika Victreebeel, the trained scaling should be also considered.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If Charizard is a controversy, just ad a Key to the profile.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Being controversial shouldn't affect us with stats. I mean, look at DBZ and Digimon.

 

[Overlord775]

are we talking of the PMG feat of burning a mountain ? because usualy there are different keys/ profiles for pokemon mistery dungeon

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The difference there was that Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Rayquaza are singular Pokemon, as in one-of-a-kind, and that they're ridiculously above the other feats they have. 7-A for a species isn't major enough

 

[Overlord775]

The difference there was that Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Rayquaza are singular Pokemon, as in one-of-a-kind, and that they're ridiculously above the other feats they have. 7-A for a species isn't major enough

Wigglytuff, the difference of AP is even smaller yet he has his own page

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That was because that's a very important character with his own backstory and all, and OP even for the verse. Plus, he'd be upgraded to 7-A with this as well.

 

[Dark649]

That also applies for that Charizard since he is one of important characters in the story, even when he got defeated by Groudon and Mewtwo.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You can't play as him though. Him being that high doesn't eff up the scaling of others, due to those above him. That's why Clefairy, Wigglytuff, Pikachu, and Lucario have their own profiles (and iconicness).

 

[Imaginym]

IIMHO, untrained Charizard shouldn't scale to PMD Charizard's feat. And said feat comes from Lombre's statement. Not to say Lombre's word isn't to be trusted. I'd assume he's reliable.

But Charizard GOT that mountain-melting statement BECAUSE he's a Pokemon with experience from countless rescue missions, & is considered to be very strong in-universe. Practically revered, I dare say.

It's an exceptional Charizard, & I don't think Charizard except for those that are VERY well trained (Ex: Have trainers who've beaten Gym Leaders or E4 or such.) should scale to it, let alone wild Charizard.


Also, I question pseudo-legendaries scaling to one another &/or having their own category in the scaling. Yes, they do have several common aspects: Being used by Champions, evolving at high levels, their 1st stages usually being found in late-game or post-game areas, a 600 BST at the final evolution, & their final stage having a catch rate of 45.

They're also known to receive plenty of hype in the anime. But I'd question if the anime hypes them LESS because they share a classification among fans & MORE because a lot of viewers may get hype for them because they look cool & powerful & even if you don't know them as pseudolegendaries, if you've played the game, you'd know they're powerful in the games, too.

But a lot of their common features are arguably game mechanics; The devs usually don't want players having access to something that can turn into a 600 BST Pokemon in the early or mid game, hence the locations, high evolution levels & catch rates.

Also, other than most being dragons or dragonlike, they also don't always share common "Pseudolegendary characteristics":

Metagross doesn't have the pseudolegendary catch rate of 45, nor is it at all dragon-like or reptillian, a significantly different design choice from other dragonlike pseudos, or even Tyranitar. Coupled with Salamence being in the same gen & matching all the other precedents.

Gible can be found right inside Wayward Cave: Near Eterna City & Cycling Road, relatively early game. Goomy arguably isn't found very late game, either.


Again, my position is that pseudo-legendaries being found late game, evolving at high levels are arguably a product of game balance & mechanics, not necessarily to indicate sharing a high power level within the setting.

The anime hyping them could be just because they're cool dragons (Or for Metagross, a cool robot-like creature & Tyranitar, Poke-Godzilla.) & not necessarily because of a fanmade classification. Even among the Pokemon anime's target audience, them being "pseudolegendaries" may not be the 1st thing viewers realize & get excited over, so it's questionable if "THAT'S A PSEUDOLEGENDARY!" is what the anime intends as the basis for hype as opposed to the 'mon looking "awesome".


One more plausible basis for their hype as a basis itself, I think, is many of them are used by Champions, often as signature 'mons (But the choice of signature Pokemon could also be based on "coolness" or like with Steven, Mega form accessibility.) & such.

(Although on the topic of being used by Champion, several Fossil Pokemon have been used by Champions. Aerodactyl, Cradily, Armaldo, Archeops, Tyrantrum, Aurorus.... But Steven's are explained by him loving rare stones; Like fossils, & Lance & Iris being Dragon type users & their fossil 'mons being dragon-like.)


Pardon all the words, please.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[Dark649]

Like i said scaling most of all the third pokemon like Victreebell to Tyranitar 7-A feat or Trained 7-A+ Charizard feat is not a good thing to do, especially if applied to the game continuty, which is the first and should be the main to consider.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The literal only reason you're against this is because of trainers. Even our current scaling makes Sabrina=Lance, going by that logic.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Once again, since when did the profiles have to be for wild Pokemon and wild Pokemon only? Why can't we just measure the species at their peaks using legitimate feats shown? Charizard has a solid 7-A feat. Trained or not, that still showcases what the species is capable of.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That's like saying that Usain Bolt's speed isn't a human feat since he's the fastest human alive.

The Pokemon profiles could go by the upper ends of what members of the species can do.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

^this

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree 100% with Matt here. I mean don't we restrict the files enough as is?