TenSura WN Major Revision - Part 14

[Astral_Trinity439]

Rimuru's Turn Null: Low 1-C (Scales to Countless Low 1-C structures)
Also just tens of thousands where did countless come from?

Ah, my memory worsened it seems, not like it wasn't before either
fixed

 

[CodeCCLL]

That isn't really an argument

I've already touched on why it's inconsistent, why are you quoting this?

Yuuki can use Beelzebuth as a defensive measure too.

It's not said that Guy can beat Yuuki or get past his defense, all we know is that they are physically comparable.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It's not said that Guy can beat Yuuki or get past his defense, all we know is that they are physically comparable.

Guy's comparability likely comes from his ability; Nodens, which is an upgraded version of his Lucifer that allows him to copy skills. This is not about physical comparison.

 

[Digital_Franz]

No. He only destroyed a single universe/space-time. His lifespan ended before he could do anything else. I clearly explained that in the blog as such:

By default, we're not gonna assume that his immortality type 1 is beyond normal, so this is a logical conclusion.

Yeah the Multiverse I'm talking about isn't the entire structure with its two dimensions but just a timeline which led him to end up in the Hypertimeline where he died.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Ok, I understand better:

In essence:

- Yuuki absorbs the energy of others, being an attack capable of destroying the world (said by rimuru himself).

- Destroys the Space-Time continuum

- Dies due to spending an eternity in each singular moment of time.

- He still had enough energy to destroy it completely, but simply his immortality was not up to the task

- rimuru goes back to before the destruction of the world, before Yuuki absorbs that power.

Basically that's the order of events here or not? Astral?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Ok, I understand better:

In essence:

- Yuuki absorbs the energy of others, being an attack capable of destroying the world (said by rimuru himself).

- Destroys the Space-Time continuum

- Dies due to spending an eternity in each singular moment of time.

- He still had enough energy to destroy it completely, but simply his immortality was not up to the task

- rimuru goes back to before the destruction of the world, before Yuuki absorbs that power.

Basically that's the order of events here or not? Astral?

Yes

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

I understand that what Yuki destroyed was the Multiverse, since as mentioned before, it was said that he might be able to destroy it "the world created by Veldanava" that Ciel opined to recreate Azathoth tens of thousands of times, but...the problem here is "dying of old age" as mentioned by Astral, so...how should this be considered?

(And in case you're wondering, yes, Yuki possessed Nihility Collapse, so he could do it.)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I understand that what Yuki destroyed was the Multiverse, since as mentioned before, it was said that he might be able to destroy it "the world created by Veldanava" that Ciel opined to recreate Azathoth tens of thousands of times, but...the problem here is "dying of old age" as mentioned by Astral, so...how should this be considered?

(And in case you're wondering, yes, Yuki possessed Nihility Collapse, so he could do it.)

it's directly stated in the Webnovel that yuuki couldn't mimic or reproduce Turn Null/Nihility Collapse, so such an example in fact doesn't suggest anything, since again, it depends on the "amount" of turn null.

For the old age part, we by default assume that statements like "Eternal life" only refer to so on a 4D Scale, and nothing more. There's no reason to assume that Yuuki would have a 5D version of immortality type 1 when there are feats suggesting completely otherwise[his own death, for instance].
Rimuru only has immortality type 1 because he has shown to possess it, by directly surviving and existing till even the end of time[Hypertimeline].

 

[Catpija]

The problem here is there was actually no hint of any extra time axis existing, forming a hypertimeline. These were just evidences that Fuse is being awfully inconsistent as always.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

The problem here is there was actually no hint of any extra time axis existing, forming a hypertimeline. These were just evidences that Fuse is being awfully inconsistent as always.

“the world line “

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The problem here is there was actually no hint of any extra time axis existing, forming a hypertimeline. These were just evidences that Fuse is being awfully inconsistent as always.

"World-line"....
The Great Spirit of Time is obviously separate from the time of any individual universe/dimension

Rimuru's Time travel itself hints toward an additional Hypertimeline above even that, too.
Another way is how GS of Darkness and Light came after the Great Holy Spirit, but even the order of something coming after or before another thing requires there to be some form of cause and effect.
And no, GHS is not a part of said Hypertimeline, it existed since the beginning, and is the source of everything, the first.

 

[Catpija]

...No? Your theories/headcanon can explain the inconsistency, but it was never outright admitted or even implied by the web novel itself.

Not Ciel or even Rimuru are shown to even address the implication of another existing time-axis. You can literally sum their dialogue like this;

Ciel: Ok so space-time and the universe you know doesnt exist anymore, but thats okay because you can time travel
Rimuru: But Yuki stopped time so I can't time travel there
Ciel: Nah you trascend time now that kind of thing doesn't matter

You would expect that atleast Rimuru ask how he will time travel when there's no time, or Ciel explaining there some special worldline etc allowing him to time travel when the Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum, but all they did was simply dismiss it with "Rimuru trascend space-time!!!". The fact that all of your "evidences" are based on the last 1-2 chapters (heck, not even a few paragraphs) and was never hinted before should already raise a big red-flag.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

...No? Your theories/headcanon can explain the inconsistency, but it was never outright admitted or even implied by the web novel itself.

Not Ciel or even Rimuru are shown to even address the implication of another existing time-axis. You can literally sum their dialogue like this;



You would expect that atleast Rimuru ask how he will time travel when there's no time, or Ciel explaining there some special worldline etc allowing him to time travel when the Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum, but all they did was simply dismiss it with "Rimuru trascend space-time!!!". The fact that all of your "evidences" are based on the last 1-2 chapters (heck, not even a few paragraphs) and was never hinted before should already raise a big red-flag.

The End of Space-Time =/= Beyond Space-Time.

Ciel still saw time passing even though the space-time continuum had been destroyed by Yuuki, Chloe traveled through the world's timeline, and Fuse himself mentions a "World Timeline".

What more do you need?

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

“the world line “

If this is the case, I see 6D.

1 Yuuki lived an eternity, this could be 2 things
1.1: Temporal hyperlinearity that we don't know how it's origins are.
1.2: the time of the world (the one Veldanava created)

Let's remember that he travelled to a universe that had been destroyed, but first it was his space and time.

When he was in the phase where he destroyed the celestial bodies as well as the space-time continuum, I presume that Yuuki's lifespan had come to an end. However, I cannot judge whether his wish was fulfilled or not. After that, we were drifting in space and I witnessed the end of this universe. "

And now, if we add that axis, plus the axis of the line created by Rimuru, it would be a total of 2 temporary hyperlines (I refer to the world line)

And Rimuru would be 6D in this case, because of this.

Although Veldanava is said that Veldanava lost "Void Collapse" when creating the world, there is no problem as Rimuru-sama has "Imaginary Hall". Because "Imaginary Room" has infinite capacity, it cannot be filled. However, it has accumulated enough energy to recreate the world tens of thousands of times.

I don't know what you think about this.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

You would expect that atleast Rimuru ask how he will time travel when there's no time, or Ciel explaining there some special worldline etc allowing him to time travel when the Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum, but all they did was simply dismiss it with "Rimuru trascend space-time!!!". The fact that all of your "evidences" are based on the last 1-2 chapters (heck, not even a few paragraphs) and was never hinted before should already raise a big red-flag.

There are numerous parallel universes, and Yuuki only destroyed the one the story is mainly based on.

Also, it is not mentioned that he destroyed the world that Veldanava created, besides that, Rimuru only gave those words, because he thought he couldn't return, that's why it is mentioned that he was surprised by Ciel's answer.

Such a world is not what Verdanava wants.
After that, he experimented many times, trying to turn people into the people he wanted. By carefully changing the conditions in numerous parallel worlds, they were able to achieve different evolutions.
During this time, he selected humans with mature souls and created angels and demons to act as custodians for the souls that had no hope of life.
A system was built for souls to circulate through all dimensions.
He limited excessive interference and appointed an overseer to prevent the world's foundations from being destroyed.
They are people like Guy, Ramiris and Dino.
There didn't seem to be any spiritual effect because the world I come from didn't have much magical essence, but maybe there was an observer.

Well, my point, as I mentioned before, is that this is possible because of the world line.
And in case you're wondering, the world line is the GS that governs the Multiverse, in this case the time line.

 

[Worthless]

The problem here is there was actually no hint of any extra time axis existing, forming a hypertimeline. These were just evidences that Fuse is being awfully inconsistent as always.

There was also no mention of an extra dimension, and Yuuki was not talking about Rimuru or all time travel ability, but rather specifically about Chloe time travel that cannot be activated within time stop. I just don't understand why this verse ended up in the hands of people like this. The dishonest fool can say anything, and his 13 years old followers will believe it without questioning

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Yes, for me it is still a disagreement.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The problem here is there was actually no hint of any extra time axis existing, forming a hypertimeline. These were just evidences that Fuse is being awfully inconsistent as always.

Bruh. I will answer this below.

...No? Your theories/headcanon can explain the inconsistency, but it was never outright admitted or even implied by the web novel itself.

No need.

Not Ciel or even Rimuru are shown to even address the implication of another existing time-axis. You can literally sum their dialogue like this;



You would expect that atleast Rimuru ask how he will time travel when there's no time, or Ciel explaining there some special worldline etc allowing him to time travel when the Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum, but all they did was simply dismiss it with "Rimuru trascend space-time!!!". The fact that all of your "evidences" are based on the last 1-2 chapters (heck, not even a few paragraphs) and was never hinted before should already raise a big red-flag.

It refers to completely transcending 4-D structures.

Well I'll give you some things that are accepted by the wiki regarding Hypertimelines.

Spoiler: Yap

Even without explicit confirmation of two temporal dimensions existing under a cosmology, there are [limited] ways to go about proving the existence of higher time dimensions. It's best not to get caught up in the specifics, but rather grasp the general concept of such alternative evidence.

For instance, in time travel fictions, you'll often have prior versions of timelines and latter versions that emerged from a time travel event. If you can prove those aren't discrete alternate versions, but a continuous time-like progression of the timeline, that should suffice as hard evidence of a higher time dimension.

If a character explicitly destroys past/present/future, but another character could somehow time travel to a point before that happened (though that tends to invite plot holes, and the implicit higher cosmology should still be recognized as its own time flow or outright called a timeline).

 

[Compsito]

What is the reason?

is a factual reason

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

...No? Your theories/headcanon can explain the inconsistency, but it was never outright admitted or even implied by the web novel itself.

Not really, you can't just say it's "headcanons" or theories without proving so.

Not Ciel or even Rimuru are shown to even address the implication of another existing time-axis. You can literally sum their dialogue like this;

Ciel: Ok so space-time and the universe you know doesnt exist anymore, but thats okay because you can time travel
Rimuru: But Yuki stopped time so I can't time travel there
Ciel: Nah you trascend time now that kind of thing doesn't matter

Which itself implies the existence of a higher temporal axis. You cannot travel to a past that does not exist while travelling on a temporal axis of the same dimensionality. A hypertimeline is a necessity in such a case. Read the tier 1 LN thread to get what I mean. The arguments were practically the same, except this time it's on a higher scale.

You would expect that atleast Rimuru ask how he will time travel when there's no time, or Ciel explaining there some special worldline etc allowing him to time travel when the Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum, but all they did was simply dismiss it with "Rimuru trascend space-time!!!". The fact that all of your "evidences" are based on the last 1-2 chapters (heck, not even a few paragraphs) and was never hinted before should already raise a big red-flag.

My evidence is not that Rimuru "transcends time", but that he's "able to transcend time" or travel in time despite the hypertimeline [world-line] not existing.
A verse need not drop extraordinarily clear terms such as an additional time axis or hypertimeline stuff as long as it follows the fundamental principle of what's needed to prove the hypertimeline's existence.
Quoting the FAQ:

Of particular consideration are instances in which timelines as a whole are changed, such that there is a timeline (or multiple timelines) before they were changed and after they were changed or created / destroyed. As the timelines as a whole are changed, the before and after in this context can't be the past and future the timelines usually use, but should be a separate direction.

and quoting a staff from here:

Qawsedf: Neither comment answers my question. Unless he's returning to a space that was retroactively destroyed he can always jump backwards towards it. If it was wiped out completely, as in time no longer existed in any capacity as described here, then its Low 1-C. If you can't show that I can't agree with an upgrade. If you can then there's a hyper-timeline present.

Yes, for me it is still a disagreement.

Provide an arguable reason first

There was also no mention of an extra dimension, and Yuuki was not talking about Rimuru or all time travel ability, but rather specifically about Chloe time travel that cannot be activated within time stop. I just don't understand why this verse ended up in the hands of people like this.

Tell me you didn't read the OP without telling me you did

The dishonest fool can say anything, and his 13 years old followers will believe it without questioning

Language. I don't mind criticism against me as long as it's done within the thread more applicable for it [in this case, the discussion thread]. That is, assuming it's a criticism based on logical arguments rather than venting your anger without regards to language or any evidently correct reason provided. But neither is this the discussion thread nor is your reason a valid one.

 

[Catpija]

I will return when someone actually provides a real argument that isn't based on personal headcanon, otherwise I don't have time to deal with this.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

I will return when someone actually provides a real argument that isn't based on personal headcanon, otherwise I don't have time to deal with this.

You were shown enough evidence and you say it is "personal"

 

[Verlice_tempest]

Umm ya I'll agree with this one W

 

[Georredannea15]

There is no reason the timeline that Rimuru travels should be 1-C... Can you tell me where does it come from? I've also been very busy lately, maybe I can do something for this Low 1-C... But that's another matter.

And one more thing, where did Low 1-C for WN come from?

 

[Curcuma_x_curcuma]

There is no reason the timeline that Rimuru travels should be 1-C... Can you tell me where does it come from? I've also been very busy lately, maybe I can do something for this Low 1-C... But that's another matter.

And one more thing, where did Low 1-C for WN come from?

If I'm not mistaken, one of the scans says that Yuki was unable to destroy the world and got by with destroying the space-time continuum, but despite all this, Rimuru was still able to return back. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

There is no reason the timeline that Rimuru travels should be 1-C... Can you tell me where does it come from? I've also been very busy lately, maybe I can do something for this Low 1-C... But that's another matter.

And one more thing, where did Low 1-C for WN come from?

I think the reasoning comes from how Chloe can't go back in time when there is no time or the world is suspended (Time Stop). But Rimuru was able to go back in time with his ability, which would prove that there is a Hyperline of Time.

The other argument is that Yuuki who has type 1 immortality due to infinite life, died due to life expectancy . Which would prove that the longest time has eternal moments .

The rest is Beyond Space-Time ≠ End of Space-Time.

Where Rimuru spent an eternity in "Beyond Space-Time" declared by Ciel and saw the End of the World.

Yuuki destroys the space-time continuum of the Cardinal World (Universe), but Rimuru returned there even when time does not exist.

(Specify, does not mean that I agree)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

There is no reason the timeline that Rimuru travels should be 1-C... Can you tell me where does it come from? I've also been very busy lately, maybe I can do something for this Low 1-C... But that's another matter.

Because the "Time travel" was done after even the hypertimeline was destroyed [as a whole, as a space-time].

And one more thing, where did Low 1-C for WN come from?

"World-line". Basically, there's this higher form of time that exists even after the destruction of space-time, and existed before Veldanava created the individual space-times universes. In fact, it decides which of those space-times come before and which came after. It flows over a 4D extra-dimensional space (albeit, the space is not proven to be significant in size so the space here doesn't matter much].

Chloe can travel between different timelines via travelling in the hypertimeline [which, by the author himself, is given the name "World-line"].

In this higher form of time, a being that had eternal life "died because his life span was over". This is something that would indeed happen if a being with eternal life in the 4D sense came to experience 5D time, where each instance/moment is equal to the whole eternity of 4D time (inasmuch as all of 4D time as a space-time being a mere snapshot of this 5D higher form of time]

All of this is already explained in the sandbox linked to the OP...

 

[Eisoks]

I agree with the OP but I think the guy's scale is inconsistent IMO

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I agree with the OP but I think the guy's scale is inconsistent IMO

Are you referring to Guy Crimson?
Well, he's only stated to be comparable to Yuuki at EoS [the last chapter of the main story] and there's no fight involving him later on, so there's no inconsistency since there's no more chapters with him in it to begin with...

 

[Eisoks]

Are you referring to Guy Crimson?
Well, he's only stated to be comparable to Yuuki at EoS [the last chapter of the main story] and there's no fight involving him later on, so there's no inconsistency since there's no more chapters with him in it to begin with...

How tho?
The last fight was Velgrand Velzard Guy etc... And they needed to combine all of their power into 1 attack in order to beat Yukki.
And I don't see how he got stronger since their fight so I think that statement is inconsistent because of that.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

The last fight was Velgrand Velzard Guy etc... And they needed to combine all of their power into 1 attack in order to beat Yukki.
And I don't see how he got stronger since their fight so I think that statement is inconsistent because of that.

Guy can literally copy abilities

 

[Eisoks]

Guy can literally copy abilities

Is it like Gaia's?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Is it like Gaig's?

Who?

 

[Eisoks]

Who?

Typed he's name wrong, I ment to say Gaia's

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Typed he's name wrong, I ment to say Gaia's

I only remember LN version of gaia.but guy could already copy/steal other people’s ultimate skills before it evolved. Think he should get a likely low 1C rating. Or a possible rating

 

[Eisoks]

I only remember LN version of gaia.but guy could already copy/steal other people’s ultimate skills before it evolved. Think he should get a likely low 1C rating. Or a possible rating

I think possible rating is the best he can get tbh

 

[CodeCCLL]

It is said that even Guy's state 2000+ years ago can destroy the World, and there is a statement that Milim in the Tenma war can destroy the World, so if you think that every explanation about the destruction of the World is valid for the multiverse, you should argue the all god tiers are Low 1-C.

 

[Georredannea15]

Because the "Time travel" was done after even the hypertimeline was destroyed [as a whole, as a space-time].

Even if it does not exist, if it is still the same direction, basically this does not give you the extra D. This was even mentioned in the first Low 1-C issue that was opened and rejected. I don't see a 1-C situation, unless there is something extra

"World-line". Basically, there's this higher form of time that exists even after the destruction of space-time, and existed before Veldanava created the individual space-times universes. In fact, it decides which of those space-times come before and which came after. It flows over a 4D extra-dimensional space (albeit, the space is not proven to be significant in size so the space here doesn't matter much].

Chloe can travel between different timelines via travelling in the hypertimeline [which, by the author himself, is given the name "World-line"].

In this higher form of time, a being that had eternal life "died because his life span was over". This is something that would indeed happen if a being with eternal life in the 4D sense came to experience 5D time, where each instance/moment is equal to the whole eternity of 4D time (inasmuch as all of 4D time as a space-time being a mere snapshot of this 5D higher form of time]

All of this is already explained in the sandbox linked to the OP...

I'll look at it in detail later because nothing makes sense from what you've told me right now. There's more detail there, I guess.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Even if it does not exist, if it is still the same direction, basically this does not give you the extra D. This was even mentioned in the first Low 1-C issue that was opened and rejected. I don't see a 1-C situation, unless there is something extra

Not really, no. Qawsedf already said otherwise in another thread [the LN version one]
The Low 1-C thing in the previous thread was also later accepted btw [by Qawsedf at that].
Quoting him for his reasoning:

Qawsedf: Neither comment answers my question. Unless he's returning to a space that was retroactively destroyed he can always jump backwards towards it. If it was wiped out completely, as in time no longer existed in any capacity as described here, then its Low 1-C. If you can't show that I can't agree with an upgrade. If you can then there's a hyper-timeline present.

The only difference here is that the thing being destroyed is a Low 1-C, so yeah, it would be a hyper-hyper-timeline [something like that].

I'll look at it in detail later because nothing makes sense from what you've told me right now. There's more detail there, I guess.

Not getting which part was hard to understand to begin with, but sure.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Firstly, this thread there is no sufficient proof for Low 1-C, Qawsed did not accept that time flow in unsignificant 5D space beyond conventional spacetime is hyper-timeline's time flow, he only accepted that time travel's time flow beyond or end of conventional spacetime into retroactively destroyed spacetime is hyper-timeline's flow.