Pokemon Upgrade: Necrozma and High 3-A

[Hasty12345]

downscaling from infinity usually ends in everyone having infinite ratings, so you've gotta do it carefully

 

[Garchomp777]

Okay, I'm fine with that
So except for light trio, necrozma and aura trio, the pokemon like the UBs, tapus, unova trio will get At least 4-B, likely 3-C, possibly High 3-A or At least 3-C/4-A, possibly high 3-A?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The ones getting the likely: Necrozma, Light Trio & Aura Trio

The ones getting the possibly: Everyone else

 

[Waka1979]

So how many votes until this can be added?

 

[Antvasima]

You know what? I’m perfectly fine with this.

The light trio and Aura Trio should probably get the likelys too since we know the former directly scales from Necrozma and the latters scale from the formers too.

Other than that I’m fine everyone else getting a “possibly”.

So are other staff members here fine with this version of the revision?

 

[KieranH10]

That sounds fine to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Garchomp777]

How many more till its applied? I wanna use them in battles already

 

[StrymULTRA]

The AP stuff is fine and makes sense to me.
The speed also makes sense but I've seen verses that treats it otherwise, such as God of War which I believe has already been mentioned.

As a few other staff here I believe, I'm also hesitant to increase a large portion of legendaries to High 3-A with Infinite speed, since this seems iffy to me, I think a "likely" would be fine on Necrozma's page just as mentioned in the OP.
I could sound dumb but perhaps only a "Possibly" rating should be given to those scaling, since there's a lot more bearing for Necrozma to scale to his own infinite feat than their is to assume everyone else also scales to this.

Issue is that there's not just this, there are also the UCs which can cross through all the Ultra Space, otherwise Giovanni's plan to conquer all the Ultra Wormholes wouldn't make sense, making "likely" more solid than "possibly" for Non-Necrozma charas.

 

[Garchomp777]

Issue is that there's not just this, there are also the UCs which can cross through all the Ultra Space, otherwise Giovanni's plan to conquer all the Ultra Wormholes wouldn't make sense, making "likely" more solid than "possibly" for Non-Necrozma charas.

Fax

 

[TheGatememer]

This does make sense I think, but It's honestly quite weird seeing them go straight to High 3-A infinite speed beings.

 

[Waka1979]

Maybe give the ub's a likely too?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyone should get a likely, there's absolutely no reason to give a possibly to mons that aren't UCs

 

[Waka1979]

The reasoning a lot of these mon's are extremely low in the scaling chain and only scale via quick encounters or just statements.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's not a reason, is still scaling, saying possibly means that even their Tier 3 ratings should be a "possibly" too because of such

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The reasoning a lot of these mon's are extremely low in the scaling chain and only scale via quick encounters or just statements.

^This.

I’m fine with the UBs, Sivally and Tapu getting a likely, but that should be it.

Downscaling from a likely rating is going to eventually end up as a “Possibly” for some of these guys, which is more reasonable than everyone getting a likely.

And it’s much more compromiseable.

 

[StrymULTRA]

^This.

I’m fine with the UBs, Sivally and Tapu getting a likely, but that should be it.

Downscaling from a likely rating is going to eventually end up as a “Possibly” for some of these guys, which is more reasonable than everyone getting a likely.

And it’s much more compromiseable.

Up to yours then if this is it

 

[Zeifyl]

This doesn't feel right to me. But since the evidence checks out, count me as agreeing.

 

[Waka1979]

Wait why do the therian forms scale to this exactly?

 

[LordTracer]

Wait why do the therian forms scale to this exactly?

I believe they fought the Swords of Justice in the manga.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I believe they fought the Swords of Justice in the manga.

^This

In their therian forms, they rivaled the swords of justice. But in their normal forms, they were overpowered and beaten easily by the latters

 

[Waka1979]

Ah I see. Why isn't that on their profiles? Are they just outdated?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ah I see. Why isn't that on their profiles? Are they just outdated?

Yup its the latter. They needed to be upgraded for a while now, I just remembered about it.

 

[Antvasima]

The problem here is that we need more staff input, and that I think that some of our staff members have rejected this revision but not given further elaboration.

 

[Waka1979]

So this is basically in limbo then?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Basically. Cal and Dragon are the only staff who said they disagreed, but like Ant said, they didn't elaborate on why. On top of that, Cal said he didn't care (which basically makes his vote neutral) and Dragon specified to not be asked to evaluate this. So at the moment, there's no real disagreement being given against this.

Meanwhile, the agreement side has at least 3 staff members who are agreeing to the upgrade, or open to agreeing with a few compromises.

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members agree with this?

 

[Waka1979]

Starter_Pack, KieranH10, and Firestorm808

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @Dino_Ranger_Black @SomebodyData @WeeklyBattles @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Assaltwaffle @GyroNutz @Bobsican @Ionliosite @SamanPatou @Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus

We would appreciate your input here.

 

[Antvasima]

Starter_Pack, KieranH10, and Firestorm808

Thank you.

 

[SamanPatou]

My problem with the upgrade comes more from the general depiction of the characters and everything, more than the logic of the feat itself, which is correct (Illumination and infinite place = infinite energy and infinite speed, which then becomes infinite attack speed when using said light).

In rough words, these Pokémon fly, walk, run, dodge, can have their speed lowered or increased, can be outrun, are faster and slower than each other and else, and there are no other feats for this infinite tier (traveling throgh ultra space isn't a feat, as they still cross form point A to point B, they don't travel infinity in its entirety).
And also, through scaling chain, this infinite and 3-A stuff gets expanded to many Pokémon.

Take my argument as you want, I know I'm not debunking the feat or anything, nor I'm spiting on anything.

 

[StrymULTRA]

In rough words, these Pokémon fly, walk, run, dodge, can have their speed lowered or increased, can be outrun, are faster and slower than each other and else, and there are no other feats for this infinite tier (traveling throgh ultra space isn't a feat, as they still cross form point A to point B, they don't travel infinity in its entirety).
And also, through scaling chain, this infinite and 3-A stuff gets expanded to many Pokémon.

They actually do tho. Giovanni wanted to use UCs to conquer all the words, so infinite speed to travel to them all is required

 

[Waka1979]

My problem with the upgrade comes more from the general depiction of the characters and everything, more than the logic of the feat itself, which is correct (Illumination and infinite place = infinite energy and infinite speed, which then becomes infinite attack speed when using said light).

In rough words, these Pokémon fly, walk, run, dodge, can have their speed lowered or increased, can be outrun, are faster and slower than each other and else, and there are no other feats for this infinite tier (traveling throgh ultra space isn't a feat, as they still cross form point A to point B, they don't travel infinity in its entirety).
And also, through scaling chain, this infinite and 3-A stuff gets expanded to many Pokémon.

I'm confused. Is it just the infinite speed you have a problem with or the upgrade itself?

 

[SamanPatou]

They actually do tho. Giovanni wanted to use UCs to conquer all the words, so infinite speed to travel to them all is required

No offence, but I find this as a rather weak argument, as Giovanni's words are a bit up in the air, and with the same thing you can assume Giovanni can live forever in order to conquer an endless amount of worlds.

I'm confused. Is it just the infinite speed you have a problem with or the upgrade itself?

Kinda, as the things are strictly related, as they are one the consequence of another, the reason they go to High 3-A and Infinite speed are the same, I just find High 3-A way less problematic that infinite speed. (but it really doesn't convinces me either).

 

[Greenshifter]

In rough words, these Pokémon fly, walk, run, dodge, can have their speed lowered or increased, can be outrun, are faster and slower than each other and else

Isn't this the same for the Creation Trio though? Yet they still have a possibly infinite speed.

 

[Waka1979]

Well if the staff have a problem with how widespread this upgrade is then, and I know this will be unpopular, maybe we should start viewing Mega Mewtwo's fight against zygarde as an outlier? It's always been kinda sus and I know a lot of people have had issue with it and a lot of pokemon on this list are on it due to scaling (either directly or indirectly) to mega mewtwo. I'm not necessarily saying I agree, but it's an idea.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No offence, but I find this as a rather weak argument, as Giovanni's words are a bit up in the air, and with the same thing you can assume Giovanni can live forever in order to conquer an endless amount of worlds.

The second is likely only if the UCs aren't fast enough to control them all in a limited amount of time tho

 

[SamanPatou]

Isn't this the same for the Creation Trio though? Yet they still have a possibly infinite speed.

That's is different, their speed doesn't come from travellin through the entirety of an infinite amount of worlds, rather from the fact they kind of ignore time and act in the stream of it or something like that, I'm rusty on it and I should check again more deeply, but it's different here. And they don't come along a 1km-long scaling chain that covers half of the legendaries and something more.

The second is likely only if the UCs aren't fast enough to control them all in a limited amount of time tho

Conquering and witnessing the conquest of an infinite amount of worlds is a reality-defying and paradoxical thing, which I don't think can apply to a normal human like Giovanni. Conquering an infinite amount of worlds means doing it endlessy over the stream of time and space, and yet reaching the end of something that doesn't have one, that statement isn't exactly the best and most accurate thing to take in account. (I may have used some wrong words, but I hope I gave the idea).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Conquering and witnessing the conquest of an infinite amount of worlds is a reality-defying and paradoxical thing, which I don't think can apply to a normal human like Giovanni. Conquering an infinite amount of worlds means doing it endlessy over the stream of time and space, and yet reaching the end of something that doesn't have one, that statement isn't exactly the best and most accurate thing to take in account. (I may have used some wrong words, but I hope I gave the idea).

Issue is that fiction doesen't care of such, so a way he'd find to do so. Also, as said in the 2-A Blog, Rainbow Rocket already messed up with some worlds, so there's no reason they shouldn't be able to reach them all if they weren't stopped.

 

[SamanPatou]

The problem comes when you take this stuff at face value, because I can say that fiction doesn't care that illuminating an infinite realm takes infinite energy and speed.
If we accept that statement as rock-solid evidence for those Pokémon to have infinite speed, than even Giovanni and all the RR must have infinite speed to accomplish the thing, as they wouldn't be able to do such without it.