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Pokemon Trainer Revisions (Revised)

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And just like that, the thread closes without a SINGLE rational argument. Everyone literally just shouted "it's obvious that it's PIS" without even considering how fallacious their reasoning is. Should I make another one and keep opening them until someone actually thinks about what they're doing for a second, or does this wiki not care about rational argument.

It doesn't matter how many people agree it's PIS if the reason they state is false. Wtf? Like, as "obvious" as it is for it to be PIS, that doesn't make it true. Someone actually PLEASE acknowledge this mistake. Because this is ridiculous.
 
My God. Like, seriously, I could get banned if I try to CLARIFY an idea that everyone doesn't think is true, despite their not being a single legitimate reason for their position. I'm honestly trying to HELP here, by strengthening your positions through Devil's Advocate. Jesus.
 
This site goes off democracy, not what individual opinons have to say.

No offense, but if everyone agrees with it being PIS, its staying that way. And as clearly demonstrated, almost everyone completely disagrees verhemently against it.
 
None of those arguments are rational tho.

None of them.

That's the issue. It doesn't matter how many people think it, if it's false, and fallacious, it's false and fallacious. But no one wants to legitimately consider shit tho.

Where is it clearly demonstrated to be absolutely inconsistent? Where was it STATED that no one can catch or compare to the CT? You can't just write it off as PIS when those statements are consistently proven wrong. And you can't say your site is FACT BASED and ACCURATE, when the threads don't even last long enough for people to actually consider opinions they find absurd and everyone disagreeing with it irrationally automatically making it "stay that way".

Kukui, you're not the problem itself, but your thinking is part of it. Debate me right now, and DIRECTLY address the fact that you are arguing from incredulity, without any solid evidence to support yourself-- in addition to calling every single piece of evidence against your position faulty without that being justified either. This is a problem with this wiki. If no one is interested in hearing facts, even when they disagree or find it annoying, no one can improve, learn, and come closer to the truth.
 
Okay

First of all, my way of thinking isn't the problem here. Im going off of how this wiki works and if you find it annoying, that isn't this sites issue. Not to bring you down or anything, but thats how it goes and its not changing based on how a person or 2 people out of them all think.

Second of all, all of this is wrong ACCORDING TO YOU. If you disagree with all of this, that is fine. You can agree or disagree with whatever you want. But does that mean it changes what the rest here think? No it doesnt. You were and still are out-voted. Im sorry, but thats what it is and if you continue to try and push it your only going to make things worse for yourself.
 
When this thread goes from 10 to 10 billion ovo

I will reread everything and will try to give my opinion.
 
Hypothetically Goku got listed as tier 1 and eveeyone agreed.


Yet ya clearly knew it was bullshit.


Not everything is fine because majority agree.
 
Jeez, what's even being argued? This isn't even wholly about trainers anymore, is it? Look, just tell me where Sabrina would be tiered so we can get back on track...
 
Thanks. I also edited my comment (likely doesn't apply to you) for more emphasis on a point.
 
That's not what I am saying Kukui. I have said consistently that, when it comes to how I FEEL about the claim that I am making. I THINK IT'S RIDICULOUS TOO!

However, being a rational person, I CANNOT FIND ANY LOGICAL WAY TO DISMISS the idea I am presenting as DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. This is why I am insisting on this. Because from the perspective of facts and rational arguments that follow the conventions we set for fictional debates-- this idea isn't MY OPINION. It is FACTUALLY IRREFUTABLE. To my knowledge, of course. I don't want my claim to be true, but I haven't heard or seen any logically consistent arguments against it, no matter how "OBVIOUS" and "RIDICULOUS" my claim sounds.

The reason this is an issue for the WIKI and yourself is because no one can recognize and PROPERLY ADDRESS THIS RATIONALLY. A FACT BASED WIKI CANNOT DO THIS FUCKSHIT. No offense to you or anyone. Just saying that we need to address this, and refusing to do it because of DEMOCRACY shows how flawed a democratic process is inherently.
 
Except the fact your assuming it would be even agreeable in the first place when it wouldnt.

Which is why I said its not a good example.
 
I mean, I was talking about her team, but damn, seriously?! No wonder she was my favorite gym leader. Well, it was either that, her acting in Gen V, or the whips in Gen 1...wait, did I just type that?
 
Regardless, its not my problem anymore. We made a thread for it, analayzed it, discussed it, made a verdict. It's done and we move on.

If you want to continue it elsewhere, be my guest. Because im not arguing this anymore.
 
Kukui please don't dodge around it because he used a bad example. If everyone agreed with X (even though X is FACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY FALSE), would it be acceptable for a Wiki that prides itself on FACT BASED analysis to present the false X as truth?
 
We didn't "Discuss" or "Analyze" anything. Everyone literally said it was stupid, and someone closed the thread. You should address this yourself if you consider yourself a rational debater who deals with facts. Just saying.
 
Before I give a pretty lenghty coment (I won't ovo), I wanted to ask... Why we don't scale manga characters to the legendary they fight? Emerald, for example, fought against the three regis. And I believe Lance could damage Mew2 (which only scales to him and Yellow(empowered) but still).

Edit: Talking about their pokémon, BTW. Just in case. ovo
 
If it was seen as false to the majority then no. It's only factually wrong according to you and ONLY you, which means nothing to the overall discussion. If one person disagreeing via thinking something was factually wrong was enough, MANY verses wouldnt have what they have today. But that isnt the case or how it works. If many agree/disagree with something and have reason to do so, then the majority vote is taken over minority.

Last reply to this. Unfollowing.
 
Cal, you're the Pokémon head, right? This debate is essentially about whether or not it's appropriate to rate Cyrus as 2-B and the Protagonist by extension. Don't say that it's PIS without giving me a FACT BASED analysis and demonstrating how this is inconsistent in the verse multiple times over-- each of those arguments have to be SOLID. I think the idea is ridiculous too, but I don't decide what is true by how believable it sounds-- I decide it by how rational it is, how much evidence is behind the claim etcetera. And this Wiki should, if it's attempted to be accurate and fact based.
 
Amexim said:
Kukui please don't dodge around it because he used a bad example. If everyone agreed with X (even though X is FACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY FALSE), would it be acceptable for a Wiki that prides itself on FACT BASED analysis to present the false X as truth?
Click to expand...
Roshi blew up the moon. Feat. Fact. Irrefutable. Accepted? Nope.

Just carry on~~
 
I believe is because is actually inconsistent more times than is not. Like, he fights 2-Cs, yet can be challenged later by other trainers. Which is hard to swallow that those guys are 2-C too, considering they probably don't even know who or what those 2-C were in the first place, and doesn't have any other relevancy outside of being NPCs to challenge the player.

Edit: Take Lucas/Dawn in Platinum. He fights Giratina. The real deal, wild, no pokéball nerf, completely unrestrained and in the Distortion World too. But then gets challenged by Volkner, and later the Elite 4. If all of them are so strong, why couldn't they just stop team galactic? Specially Cynthia, who was there.
 
Not what I said, not what I meant, not what I asked Kukui. I'm talking about fricking OBJECTIVE fact (or as close to it). Objective as in regardless of anyone's opinion. If that's how this will works, then I think they should wear it on their sleeve and stop lying about it's accuracy and fact based process-- while they're at it, just throw away every rating and make this as bad as Joke battles.

I'm sorry if that's offensive or harsh, but it's true. It doesn't matter what people think, it's about facts that are independent of everyone else's opinion. You can't say that "I don't think it's fact, and no one does, so it's not changing," without considering the evidence RATIONALLY-- ugh.
 
Cyrus and Sun/Moon are 2-B only via CT and Lake Trio. No one scales. Simple as that.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Cyrus and Sun/Moon are 2-B only via CT and Lake Trio. No one scales. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
I mean, that's acceptable. They have the pokemon, they are 2-B.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Before I give a pretty lenghty coment (I won't ovo), I wanted to ask... Why we don't scale manga characters to the legendary they fight? Emerald, for example, fought against the three regis. And I believe Lance could damage Mew2 (which only scales to him and Yellow(empowered) but still).

Edit: Talking about their pokémon, BTW. Just in case. ovo
Click to expand...
There's more exceptions to the rule rather than the rule themselves. For example, Red's Charizard could damage Mewtwo and is 5-B for that, but that was his Mega Charizard X, and it was his only showing period. Same with that 2-C Lucario. He won every battle, normally quite handily, and Darkrai was his final feat.
 
As for what you said, fella, I don't think it's a bad idea-- but we have to see if scaling to legendaries is rational first. Which, it is, OBJECTIVELY, until we find more instances (with acceptable contexts) making it unreliable to do so than there are instances of trainers fighting legends.
 
I feel like you guys are making things so OBJECTIVELY complicated when it shouldn't be....
 
Roshi blowing up the moon is an actual inconsistent showing (arguably) that hasn't been shown to be consistent at all. I really don't know how that refutes this, tho, as not only is it a bad example (an example of an outlier with actual logical evidence behind the justification of such), but it's the goal for this scenario-- to debunk situations like these with FACT BASED analysis. PaChi. Please.

Whereas every protagonist in the game's catches a legendary. And Cyrus's 2-B rating with Sun can still be downgraded because of the Master Ball/Capture statement, so they could scale to U Necrozma. And the Gen 4 protagonist would get either 2-B or Solar System as well, because he has the restricted CT.
 
Somehow I am still getting notifs from this so im making one last reply to clarify my stance here.

I was and still am completely agreeing with that Dragon, Pachi, etc. have said here and on the other thread. Im not arguing for anyone who shouldnt be 2-B to become that, only going against whoever is for that at all. Nothing more than that.

Basically, im on the side of the majority and I don't want anyone else to get the wrong idea of where I stand here.
 
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