Pokemon LS Band-Aid Fix (Featuring Mudsdale)

[Peppersalt43]

So if I recall correctly, there's an issue with the LS feats around the verse after the canon split and looking at the calcs, I can somewhat understand. Most of them are anime or manga feats while the two that aren't are based of Pokédex entries.

I had some discussion in the general discussion thread and I thought I might try this. Even if better feats are around, this can at least still be applied down to baby and first-stage mons.

Anyway, this hinges on Mudsdale, the heaviest non-legendary Pokémon around. Mudsdale is 920 kg which is close to a ton, giving around Class 1 LS to anyone that can lift them. I would assume being able to throw something would count as LS as you need to lift and hold them and not just strike at them. As it so happens, Mankey and Makuhita can learn Seismic Toss naturally and Riolu can learn Circle Throw naturally. All these mons are present in the Alola Dex so that's pretty easy to scale.

But if you need something more widespread, Braviary and Rufflet who are also in the Alola Dex can learn Sky Drop (Conveniently it was last usable in Gen 7 where Mudsdale is in. Thank goodness). Sky Drop literally works by lifting a target and dropping them later, it does not get any clearer as an LS feat than that. Now, despite being capable of lifting the almost 1 ton mud horse, they get weighed down and dropped by Iron Ball and Gravity. The former is the more interesting one on account of item affecting moves such as Fling (Literally just throws the item), Knock-Off (Knocks off an item from a mon's grasp), and Poltergeist (Which just beats a mon with their own item). In other words, this causes it all to spread all around and make it so all Pokémon have the same LS as Mudsdale's weight

(Also this is when I realized that Hariyama and Braviary have no profiles, what the heck)

 

[Arceus0x]

I think you should hold back on this revision since the canon unsplit thread dropped a while ago and we're waiting for more input

 

[SamanPatou]

Anyway, this hinges on Mudsdale, the heaviest non-legendary Pokémon around. Mudsdale is 920 kg which is close to a ton, giving around Class 1 LS to anyone that can lift them. I would assume being able to throw something would count as LS as you need to lift and hold them and not just strike at them. As it so happens, Mankey and Makuhita can learn Seismic Toss naturally and Riolu can learn Circle Throw naturally. All these mons are present in the Alola Dex so that's pretty easy to scale.

I'm fine with giving such rating to mons who can learn moves that imply some sort of lifting and throwing.

But if you need something more widespread, Braviary and Rufflet who are also in the Alola Dex can learn Sky Drop (Conveniently it was last usable in Gen 7 where Mudsdale is in. Thank goodness). Sky Drop literally works by lifting a target and dropping them later, it does not get any clearer as an LS feat than that. Now, despite being capable of lifting the almost 1 ton mud horse, they get weighed down and dropped by Iron Ball and Gravity. The former is the more interesting one on account of item affecting moves such as Fling (Literally just throws the item), Knock-Off (Knocks off an item from a mon's grasp), and Poltergeist (Which just beats a mon with their own item). In other words, this causes it all to spread all around and make it so all Pokémon have the same LS as Mudsdale's weight

I can see the logic, but we'd still need to look specifically in each mon for their quirks, because you even mons like Alakazam whose muscles are explicitly weak, so all psychics types and mons who could benefit from some form of circumvention to LS could theoretically carry the ball without exerting physical effort.
I wouldn't count Knock Off as LS as it implies the mons is disarming the opponent by striking the object, the arm, whatever, causing them to drop it through blunt force, Poltergeist works through telekinesis / possession / whatever supernatural ability related to the nature of ghosts.

 

[Imaginym]

I think you should hold back on this revision since the canon unsplit thread dropped a while ago and we're waiting for more input

I hadn't heard of this. Info, please?

 

[Peppersalt43]

I hadn't heard of this. Info, please?

Pokémon: Nearly Everything is Canon

As some may recall, years ago a sort of canon split was done across all Pokémon media, considering each series, including the manga and animes, as separate canons. However, the reasons for this are questionable and simply go against the overall way the canon for the series works. There are...

vsbattles.com

 

[SamanPatou]

I hadn't heard of this. Info, please?

This

Pokémon: Nearly Everything is Canon

As some may recall, years ago a sort of canon split was done across all Pokémon media, considering each series, including the manga and animes, as separate canons. However, the reasons for this are questionable and simply go against the overall way the canon for the series works. There are...

vsbattles.com

I've been eyeing the thread for awhile, but my little times leaves my little room to tackle such a long thing.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I can see the logic, but we'd still need to look specifically in each mon for their quirks, because you even mons like Alakazam whose muscles are explicitly weak, so all psychics types and mons who could benefit from some form of circumvention to LS could theoretically carry the ball without exerting physical effort.

Poltergeist works through telekinesis / possession / whatever supernatural ability related to the nature of ghosts.

But don't most of said Psychic Pokemon usually make do with Telekinesis which still count as LS if I recall. You can probably just list it as "Unknown, LS Value with Telekinesis"

Also I may have overestimated Fling's distribution. I could've sworn every mon has it but turns out it's via TM (Like Rest, Sleep Talk, and Protect these days)

 

[SamanPatou]

But don't most of said Psychic Pokemon usually make do with Telekinesis which still count as LS if I recall. You can probably just list it as "Unknown, LS Value with Telekinesis"

Also I may have overestimated Fling's distribution. I could've sworn every mon has it but turns out it's via TM (Like Rest, Sleep Talk, and Protect these days)

Yes, it's the reason why Meowstic is Class G via Telekinesis and unknown physically, it's a matter of separating the ratings. Also yeah, I forgot about Fling not being a naturally learned move.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Also yeah, I forgot about Fling not being a naturally learned move.

If you think that's bad, I just learned that Poltergeist can only be learned via TM

Anyway assuming this CRT passes, it'd likely be applied to all mons that can learn Seismic Toss, Circle Throw, Sky Drop, Fling, and as I've recently learned, Telekinesis naturally.

And I would assume we can't just go the AP route and have it be applied to so-called comparable Pokemon (Like babies, first-stagers, etc)

 

[SamanPatou]

Anyway assuming this CRT passes, it'd likely be applied to all mons that can learn Seismic Toss, Circle Throw, Sky Drop, Fling, and as I've recently learned, Telekinesis naturally.

Yeah, there's a bunch of moves out there that focus on lifting, throwing etc.. whether it's done by brawns or supernatural abilities. That said, you could group them all together and see what we get out if.
It was also one of my initial proposals back then, but no one ever got to the end of it.

And I would assume we can't just go the AP route and have it be applied to so-called comparable Pokemon (Like babies, first-stagers, etc)

No, because there's no UES involved and Pokémons are already sorted out for their physical strength when it comes to it.
Machop's line is hyped up in virtue of their physical strength that allows them to lift great weights and so are, for example, Mega Mewtwo, Grimmsnarl and others, blatantly to differentiate them from other mons that can't achieve the same result.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Yeah, there's a bunch of moves out there that focus on lifting, throwing etc.. whether it's done by brawns or supernatural abilities. That said, you could group them all together and see what we get out if.
It was also one of my initial proposals back then, but no one ever got to the end of it.


No, because there's no UES involved and Pokémons are already sorted out for their physical strength when it comes to it.
Machop's line is hyped up in virtue of their physical strength that allows them to lift great weights and so are, for example, Mega Mewtwo, Grimmsnarl and others, blatantly to differentiate them from other mons that can't achieve the same result.

With those caveats then, do you agree with this CRT?