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This thread will mainly cover issues with H3A scalings and the associated scaling chains used.
- Red Genesect.
In Genesect's profile, there is an H3A scaling as it is 'relative' to Mewtwo. However, there are several issues with this. These points will be more lore-related to understand the general context and not just focus on the 'Yes, but Genesect hit it, so hes relative' argument. Having watched the movie to understand what I mean is already a good step.
Genesects are not equal to Mewtwo. Within the film, Mewtwo's superiority over the Genesect team is constantly implied. It is verbatim stated that Mewtwo can defeat the Genesects, but he simply doesn't want to. The motivation is obviously lore related, so I won't be here to explain all the lore, I'll keep it short. Genesects like Mewtwo were created by humans, and Genesects like Mewtwo (at first) saw everything as a threat. Mewtwo's purpose was to make the Genesect understand that everyone on earth is friends.
In the movie, the only one who managed to hit Mewtwo is Red Genesect, only twice throughout the entire film. Mewtwo tanked these hits, and the only one that seemed to have stunned it actually had no effect. An additional minor thing that I would like to point out is that those hits did not cause any scratches on Mewtwo, which is actually usual in Pokémon when a Pokémon gets hurt.
Clearly, Red Genesect is visibly stronger than any other Genesect. He is the leader of the Team Genesect, the one who controls them, and excels in terms of strength and speed. This point is extensively demonstrated, especially towards the end of the film, in the battle between Red Genesect and Mewtwo. Plus, since he is stronger than the other Genesects, he is not usable for scaling chains that have no connection to this specific Genesect.
The last point that i would like to point out is that, straightforwardly, Shiny Pokémon are treated as superior within the anime. Almost every time, somehow, they try to highlight the Shiny Pokémon in various categories, be it speed, strength, intelligence, and so on.
- Mewtwo.
I have also encountered issues with the H3A scaling of Mewtwo. The reasoning for him being H3A is as follows: "Fought against Zygarde 50%, therefore, he is relative to Necrozma".
Mewtwo fought Zygarde 50% in the XY arc. This argument is fallacious because it assumes that the strength relationship between Mewtwo and Ultra Necrozma existed before Zygarde was able to defeat Ultra Necrozma.
Zygarde is not relative to Necrozma in his 50% form, but is just in his Complete Form, in the USUM arc.
- Zygarde.
I think Zygarde is the main problem that creates stupid arguments to scale any pokemon to H3A. Scaling legendaries and carrying them at least equal to Necrozma using Zygarde is almost as stupid as thinking Pikachu is relative to Arceus just because he hit him.
Zygarde 100% (base) is not relative to Ultra Necrozma.
Zygarde Complete Form adapts to any Pokémon that endagers the Kalos ecosystem. Ultra Necrozma was a threat to both Alola and Kalos (at least), in fact the ultra beats, Solgaleo and Lunala were trying to stop Ultra Necrozma. Zygarde saw Necrozma as a threat that needed to be eliminated absolutely. So, even Pokémon relative to Zygarde 100% are not relative to Ultra Necrozma, because that is a specific case where Zygarde was boosted due to Necrozma's own strength. Ultra Necrozma also manages to tank Zygarde's most powerful attack. Right after he immediately defeted him (temporarily) using Photon Geyser.
"Zygarde 50% is relative to Necrozma". Zygarde was defeated in the 50% form, and needed the help of Solgaleo and Lunala while he was in 100% form in order to stop Ultra Necrozma.
I would also like to add that Zygarde had the plot on his side since it was the first time in the manga in which his True Form appeared and therefore they had to somehow show that he was too strong for fiction.
- Xerneas & Yveltal.
Xerneas and Yveltal are also H3A due to Zygarde 50%. The same fallacious argument i discussed in the Mewtwo section has also been applied here. However, i still find it hard to believe that Zygarde is not superior to Xerneas and Yveltal; i think it is a narrative contradiction.
To clarify, the Aura Trio represent the concept of life (Xerneas), concept of death (Yveltal) and the balance of this dualism. Zygarde must necessarily be stronger to potentially stop any issues that Xerneas and Yveltal might create in the ecosystem. Even when Xerneas and Yveltal were fighting with all of their sthrengh, Zygarde did not consider them as a threat.
- Reshiram & Zekrom.
Reshiram and Zekrom have even a dumber H3A scaling, making the scaling chain even longer. Im pretty sure i can scale every Pokémon at least relative to Arceus with a scaling chain this long. The argument goes like: "They're equal to Kyurem, therefore they're stronger than Red Genesect". I'll get to the "Kyurem > Genesect" part in the Kyurem section, now I'd just want to focus on the "They should be at least equal to Kyurem".
This very much contradicts the overall narrative we've seen within the games; it is stated several times that Kyurem has such great power that he is stronger than Reshiram and Zekrom. Additionally, the Giant Chasm was the only place where Kyurem could unleash his full power, and coincidentally, he defeated both Reshiram and Zekrom without any difficulty (Here, I have attached the link of the battle with Zekrom, but the fight is the same also in Pokémon White 2 against Reshiram).
However, the profile itself even lacks justifications for the "Reshiram and Zekrom = Kyurem".
- Kyurem.
The only argument for Kyurem H3A is: "He was used as the main weapon when Ghetsis wanted to conquer the Unova region by freezing it, so he will surely be stronger than Genesect".
Kyurem was used as the main weapon in this plan because he is the ******* legendary Ice-type Pokémon, so it seems logical to use his power if you want to freeze all of Unova, right? This argument is completely flawed and does not definitely provide an evaluation of the comparative strength between Red Genesect and Kyurem.
If this argument were truly valid tho, then why couldn't I use the same argument but with Genesect? Team Plasma felt the need to resurrect Genesects from fossils from millions of years ago to have Genesect on their side, so Genesect is surely stronger than Kyurem. Apparently, Kyurem's power wasn't enough for them.
- Red Genesect.
In Genesect's profile, there is an H3A scaling as it is 'relative' to Mewtwo. However, there are several issues with this. These points will be more lore-related to understand the general context and not just focus on the 'Yes, but Genesect hit it, so hes relative' argument. Having watched the movie to understand what I mean is already a good step.
Genesects are not equal to Mewtwo. Within the film, Mewtwo's superiority over the Genesect team is constantly implied. It is verbatim stated that Mewtwo can defeat the Genesects, but he simply doesn't want to. The motivation is obviously lore related, so I won't be here to explain all the lore, I'll keep it short. Genesects like Mewtwo were created by humans, and Genesects like Mewtwo (at first) saw everything as a threat. Mewtwo's purpose was to make the Genesect understand that everyone on earth is friends.
In the movie, the only one who managed to hit Mewtwo is Red Genesect, only twice throughout the entire film. Mewtwo tanked these hits, and the only one that seemed to have stunned it actually had no effect. An additional minor thing that I would like to point out is that those hits did not cause any scratches on Mewtwo, which is actually usual in Pokémon when a Pokémon gets hurt.
Clearly, Red Genesect is visibly stronger than any other Genesect. He is the leader of the Team Genesect, the one who controls them, and excels in terms of strength and speed. This point is extensively demonstrated, especially towards the end of the film, in the battle between Red Genesect and Mewtwo. Plus, since he is stronger than the other Genesects, he is not usable for scaling chains that have no connection to this specific Genesect.
The last point that i would like to point out is that, straightforwardly, Shiny Pokémon are treated as superior within the anime. Almost every time, somehow, they try to highlight the Shiny Pokémon in various categories, be it speed, strength, intelligence, and so on.
- Mewtwo.
I have also encountered issues with the H3A scaling of Mewtwo. The reasoning for him being H3A is as follows: "Fought against Zygarde 50%, therefore, he is relative to Necrozma".
Mewtwo fought Zygarde 50% in the XY arc. This argument is fallacious because it assumes that the strength relationship between Mewtwo and Ultra Necrozma existed before Zygarde was able to defeat Ultra Necrozma.
Zygarde is not relative to Necrozma in his 50% form, but is just in his Complete Form, in the USUM arc.
- Zygarde.
I think Zygarde is the main problem that creates stupid arguments to scale any pokemon to H3A. Scaling legendaries and carrying them at least equal to Necrozma using Zygarde is almost as stupid as thinking Pikachu is relative to Arceus just because he hit him.
Zygarde 100% (base) is not relative to Ultra Necrozma.
Zygarde Complete Form adapts to any Pokémon that endagers the Kalos ecosystem. Ultra Necrozma was a threat to both Alola and Kalos (at least), in fact the ultra beats, Solgaleo and Lunala were trying to stop Ultra Necrozma. Zygarde saw Necrozma as a threat that needed to be eliminated absolutely. So, even Pokémon relative to Zygarde 100% are not relative to Ultra Necrozma, because that is a specific case where Zygarde was boosted due to Necrozma's own strength. Ultra Necrozma also manages to tank Zygarde's most powerful attack. Right after he immediately defeted him (temporarily) using Photon Geyser.
"Zygarde 50% is relative to Necrozma". Zygarde was defeated in the 50% form, and needed the help of Solgaleo and Lunala while he was in 100% form in order to stop Ultra Necrozma.
I would also like to add that Zygarde had the plot on his side since it was the first time in the manga in which his True Form appeared and therefore they had to somehow show that he was too strong for fiction.
- Xerneas & Yveltal.
Xerneas and Yveltal are also H3A due to Zygarde 50%. The same fallacious argument i discussed in the Mewtwo section has also been applied here. However, i still find it hard to believe that Zygarde is not superior to Xerneas and Yveltal; i think it is a narrative contradiction.
To clarify, the Aura Trio represent the concept of life (Xerneas), concept of death (Yveltal) and the balance of this dualism. Zygarde must necessarily be stronger to potentially stop any issues that Xerneas and Yveltal might create in the ecosystem. Even when Xerneas and Yveltal were fighting with all of their sthrengh, Zygarde did not consider them as a threat.
- Reshiram & Zekrom.
Reshiram and Zekrom have even a dumber H3A scaling, making the scaling chain even longer. Im pretty sure i can scale every Pokémon at least relative to Arceus with a scaling chain this long. The argument goes like: "They're equal to Kyurem, therefore they're stronger than Red Genesect". I'll get to the "Kyurem > Genesect" part in the Kyurem section, now I'd just want to focus on the "They should be at least equal to Kyurem".
This very much contradicts the overall narrative we've seen within the games; it is stated several times that Kyurem has such great power that he is stronger than Reshiram and Zekrom. Additionally, the Giant Chasm was the only place where Kyurem could unleash his full power, and coincidentally, he defeated both Reshiram and Zekrom without any difficulty (Here, I have attached the link of the battle with Zekrom, but the fight is the same also in Pokémon White 2 against Reshiram).
However, the profile itself even lacks justifications for the "Reshiram and Zekrom = Kyurem".
- Kyurem.
The only argument for Kyurem H3A is: "He was used as the main weapon when Ghetsis wanted to conquer the Unova region by freezing it, so he will surely be stronger than Genesect".
Kyurem was used as the main weapon in this plan because he is the ******* legendary Ice-type Pokémon, so it seems logical to use his power if you want to freeze all of Unova, right? This argument is completely flawed and does not definitely provide an evaluation of the comparative strength between Red Genesect and Kyurem.
If this argument were truly valid tho, then why couldn't I use the same argument but with Genesect? Team Plasma felt the need to resurrect Genesects from fossils from millions of years ago to have Genesect on their side, so Genesect is surely stronger than Kyurem. Apparently, Kyurem's power wasn't enough for them.
