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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

Zeifyl said:
No idea. Just what I've heard over and over again since Gen 6.
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i mean i wouldn't be surprised but at the same time i don't remember where that happened. Also, Primals can just scale somewhat above their base forms
 
So is anyone else disappointed Flareon didn’t get Raging Fury? It’s stuck with Fire Fang as it’s strongest physical stab move in LA, again.
 
Flare Blitz : Am I a joke to you?

(Although he didn't get that in PLA, but it's in his moveset outsise of that)
 
Gee I wonder who will win the tournament. Certainly not Ash

FVNt-Ouq-VEAE-R-g.jpg
 


Think I'm done with making changes, so I'll be posting the crt later today. Mind going over it to see if there any more changes I'll have to make to it? Anything I can add or remove.
 
Yemma670 said:
INTRODUCTION
Before I begin. I want to clear up a couple of misunderstandings here. And that is in relation to the anime depiction of the Distortion World.
The anime depiction of the DW is entirely different from the games.
Even Bulbapedia has them in separate pages. You can compare them here and here. And it's agreed that by Pokémon Canon hierarchy, Primary Canon holds sway over anything else, so significant contradictions like these cannot be used against the primary canon. Here and Here.

Anti-Matter(Pokémon) ≠ Anti-Matter in Physics

Okay so generally we've been under the impression for many years that Giratina is the concept of anti matter, specifically anti matter in physics. Well, that's false. I'll be using the mainline games for this. There was only one instance, in the mainline games that "Anti-Matter" was ever mentioned, that's here. Truth? That was never mentioned in Japanese translation.
The anti-matter the English version said, makes it seem like anti matter in physics, but that is not what it meant at all. Its Masuda who made that clarification on what that meant , the English version threw it in and never explained it, which is why we've never seen Giratina use irl anti matter ever in the series(Just Look at the justification of Anti matter manipulation on his profile) Back to Masuda. He clarified it as a paradox of space and time(the opposite universe, an anti-world, opposite world by the games). The Universe comprises two things: Substance(physical) and Spirit(Metaphysical), textbook definition of Existence . A paradox of existence is the state of existence which does not exist. Which he further explained here and mentioned here. These are paradoxes. An existence that doesn't exist. Contradictions. That which exists but actually doesn't. Those who ventured into it, didn't feel anything at all, and couldn't even interact with it. A place of nothingness. Even It's Avatars appear can't exist within the real world, appearing as shadows. Although it seems to be able manifest physical form, possibly with the help of the Griesious orb

Duality of The Pokémon World

In Pokémon, there are two different multiverses. The Pokémon reality(Existence) , and the Distortion world(Nonexistence) . The Distortion world is a strange place where the laws of the Pokémon reality doesn't apply, and has distorted laws of cause and effect. A place where the world's logic doesn't apply. Describe by Cyrus as like a DNA strand, where one can't exist without the other and they keep each other in balance. Both of the opposites. Which is what inspired Giratina's battle music. Opposing concepts. Life/death, Front/back.(source: https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/03/21/pokemon-creators-get-personal). Basically, the Pokémon world and DW is a Duality. The DW is the Chaos and nonexistence which supports the Order and Existence of the Real Multiverse. Which is why anyone who breaks the rules of the Pokémon world would be dragged into the Distortion world of chaos as punishment

Full Interview here btw

Conclusion 1
A. Giratina would have NEP Nature type 1, Aspect Type 1, 2 and 3. Material non-existence for being nonexistence itself and being the concept of Nothingness. It both exits, as is a reflection, and does not exists, as it's just a reflection. Giratina lacks spirit(mind and soul) , you see, the spirit is necessary for every living being (pokémon or human) to perceive the world, which is possible only thanks to the LT that bound Time and Space by means of the Red-chain. All of this doesn't exist in the Distortion World since that world doesn't need to be perceived by normal living beings. An explanation about this is contained in the Hiker's speech and from Cogita

Subjective Idealism in Pokemon?

It should also be clarified on his profile that anti-matter is not referring to the anti-matter in physics, but it describes his nature as a paradox of existence. Essentially, he's nothing and embodies the concept of Nothingness. Not antimatter in physics, but anti-existence, anti-reality, also known as Nothingness/Nonexistence. Opposite world, universe, existence, reality etc. Nothingness

B. Giratina should have void manipulation and Creation. It can materialize things out of the nothingness in the distortion world, as a puzzle to test the player

C. Chaos manipulation The Distortion world is a place of chaos. Where the rules of time and space change. The Pokémon world's logic doesn't apply there, which also applies to causality. Giratina has control over the forces of chaos over there, just as Dialga and Palkia have full control over their dimensions.

D. Giratina should have full Acausality type 4. The DW exists beyond the concepts of time and space, and runs on a different laws/systems, including the law of cause and effect of the Real world

NB: All these apply to its True Form(The DW) and not avatars. Sealed outside the multiverse because reasons

LLAMA History Lesson

As for Llama, he's more of a Non-Dual Existence really.

Literally Pure Awareness in NonDualism word for word

Well, we just wait for GF to say the magic words, then TD 2 is up

He had no cause for his existence, only an effect. He simply appeared. Encompasses the Multiverse yet simultaneously exists outside of it in its truest form and transcends it, including the concepts of time, space, matter, Spirit, and nonexistence, and all systems/laws/rules within them. These are merely extensions, products of his awareness.

A. Acausality type 4, possibly type 5, as the he exists beyond the multiverse, including the ordinary law of cause and effect of the Pokémon world, and the irregular (Acausal) one of the Distortion world. Time and space being merely extensions of him and certainly have no effect on his being as he doesn't need them for his existence(predates them all) . Certainly superior to the paradoxical Distortion World. And again, all these laws/systems/concepts are just extensions he doesn't need for himself. Which is why he exists outside of it. He's akin to a big house, and the everything in the Pokéverse are the furniture within them


B. TD 1 And NEP Nature Type 2, Aspect Type 1,2,3 and 4. Lacks any discernable existence nor nonexistence to be tied to reality or unreality as every concept that can be tied to some sort of existence is a concept that he's independent of and doesn't need to maintain his existence (Time, space, matter, spirit, Nonexistence). Exists beyond and transcends the duality of the Pokéverse in extension.

B. Immortality type 5. Neither exists nor doesn't exist. As the very concepts, of physical, metaphysical and non existent aspects of reality are seperate entities that have been conceptualized from his being. Including the Pokéverse and the DW world where life sparkles and Fades respectively

C. Resistances to CM. The only concept that existed before he came was Nothingness, also mentioned in the Pokedex entry ........ And it turns out that even that nothing is also merely an aspect of his being (Giratina)

NB: Nep, immortality and CM resistances only applies to true form, and not avatars.

C. List of Abilities For Arceus Profile

1. Fate Manipulation via upscaling from Jirachi.

2. Illusion Creation and Madness Manipulation type 3(replace type 2 with this) via upscaling from Hisuian Zoroark.

3. Passive unconventional resistances to to stats reduction( Reversing effects of stat manip via Contrary, Reflecting the effects of stat reduction via mirror armor)
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This
 
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Would be cool if the next series has Ash battling trainers across various universes/timelines, since S/V seems to have a time theme, and current series really feels like it's wrapping up, leaving Ash with nothing much to do than go beyond Earth
 
So new pokemon episode and thus new scaling.

Leon vs Alain, a 3v3. Victory was in Leon's favour, winning 2-1. What we now know from the scaling - Alain's normal Chestnaught was comparable to a gigantamax Rillaboom. Alain's charizard > Chestnaught by default. Alain's mega charizard is, as we have it accepted, >2x g-max level. Leon's Charizard > Alain's mega Charizard. So overall, though i may change some standards down the line, Leon's charizard is >> 10x normal pokemon or >>31.9 gigatons. With g-max he becomes 5x stronger so >>159.5 gigatons or At least High 6-C
 
Lol at pokémon casually dropping thousands of pocket realms
Screenshot-20220618-181341-com-brave-browser-1.jpg


It does seem many psychic legendaries have their own realms. (Probably by creating it themselves?)
 
So if Arceus created the very concept of knowledge, will it be a wrong assumption that he'd scale above anything humans can conceive off of their thoughts?🤔

So all the big math, science, philosophy, dualistic thoughts etc, all these concepts are only limited understandings humans have over reality, even more limited than that, is the True nature of Almighty (also Omnipotent) Sinnoh. As mentioned in PLA🐸
 
Yemma670 said:
So if Arceus created the very concept of knowledge, will it be a wrong assumption that he'd scale above anything humans can conceive off of their thoughts?🤔

So all the big math, science, philosophy, dualistic thoughts etc, all these concepts are only limited understandings humans have over reality, even more limited than that, is the True nature of Almighty (also Omnipotent) Sinnoh. As mentioned in PLA🐸
Click to expand...
AFAIK, yes. In the way that it's harder to understand what Arceus is, than it is to understand the Theory of Everything in-universe.
 
Zeifyl said:
AFAIK, yes. In the way that it's harder to understand what Arceus is, than it is to understand the Theory of Everything in-universe.
Click to expand...
In a way, I like the way his true form is being portrayed as even beyond the understanding of humans. Keeps the God status in check.

Certainly one of the truest depictions of God in fiction
 
Yemma670 said:
Dialga: Hey..... Hey Palkia. You know what would be funny.....

Palkia: If we made an alternate timeline where mega stones exist?

Dialga: You know it bro! Let's do it

Palkia: Should we ask Arceus first?

Dialga: He doesn't need to know! We'll be fine

Approximately 2 minutes later

Arceus: YOU GUYS, WHAT THE ACTUAL FU-
Click to expand...
Arceus: and now Mega Rayquaza exists, I hope you’re happy
 
Now let me ask?

Wouldn't the Llama's plates be either
1. Concepts?
2. Information?

Let me clarify

As mentioned in PLA, each plate contains the essense of a specific power. You can look up each plate description from PLA. Llama can even encompass all of them into the Legend plate, which in itself, contains the essense of all existence.

Meaning of essence:
the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, which determines its character.

Note that essense is more fundamental than mind, body or soul. That wouldn't really matter as in llama's case, essence will include even the concepts, so something even deeper than all those

And everything in pokemon is connected to the plates. As Legend plates mentioned:

"A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation"

Which is basically why any Pokémon that had, or has or will exist in Pokémon will have its power connected to the essense, whether Llama created them or not. So a fire type will be connected to the flame plate, and so on. Basically one can say they're concepts that define their powers

I'm assuming destroying each plate will erase all the powers connected to it, as it's the origin and Essense of all the powers. Like here:

“The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon.”
 
Yemma670 said:
I'm assuming destroying each plate will erase all the powers connected to it, as it's the origin and Essense of all the powers. Like here:

“The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon.”
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The Original One obtained the power of types from the Giants and then infused them in stone tablets. The plates are not the source of the types. The Original One is the source. If you destroy a plate nothing happens, the plates aren't even unique, there are multiple copies of every single one. You can find other copies digging in the Underground. Moreover, the Shards are implied aslo to be broken plates.
 
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