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Nice job using a non official wiki to refute official confirmation
Canon
m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net
Read about the Pokémon canon
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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
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It is the Pocket Monsters Series, and Mystery Dungeon is not part of that brand. It is part of Pocket Monsters, but not Pocket Monsters Series.
Sniper670
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Is this some poor excuse for a joke?
Time gears, Dark Matter, Tree of Life. Why the heck would Arceus plant a tree in pmd to rely on because of a spinoff game.. Silly as hell when Arceus himself was going to destroy creation
Then we go with the main canon, which is the mainline games. Over there, plates aren't his life force. In fact they're always thrown away somewhere on the planet. No need for em. Just fodder fragments of his True Form
Sniper670
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They're only selling the games. That's not proof of canonicity at all.
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Why does this matter? I gave other evidence that stuff not even part of the series you listed is canon to the games, and actual evidence that mystery dungeon is canon
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Because you are using Mystery Dungeon to challenge stuff that can't be argued away with parallel universes, since it involves entities at and above the level of EVERY universe. And in an argument between 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ and not-『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ on that scale is a default win for 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ, since 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ is the primary canon. Even if we go by the claim that everything with the name Pokémon on it is canon, down to, and including, fanfics, and all of it said one thing about the cosmology/Gods/Existence of the Multiverse/Anything else that can't be argued away with alternate realities, while 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ said another, 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ would win that argument. This is the case, because you need to prove that the Anime/Manga/Spin-offs are canon, but 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ is, by its very existence, considered canon, and anything that needs to be proven canon needs to be proven canon to 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ. That is what's called a primary canon. Something that does not need to be proven canon. Or said another way: If 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ wasn't canon, Pokémon as a whole wouldn't be canon to itself.
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Sniper670
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Is it? Time Gears, Dark matter, Tree of life
Show me how these three have ever been relevant or showcased in the mainline games, or any material acknowledged as canon.
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The anime is also not published by that company, and is still considered canon, so that whole argument is invalid
You also conveniently ignored the other stuff I showed of it being canon
Sniper670
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We weren't doing much. But this is what started the whole walls of texts
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Yemma was talking about abilities for Giratina
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The Anime is considered canon, because the first party (Gamefreak/TPC) says it's canon. And the argument isn't that Mystery Dungeon isn't canon. The argument is that it isn't a primary canon. Just like the Anime or Manga isn't primary canon. Only the Pocket Monsters Series games can be primary canon, and they can't be anything but. And in the event of contradictions, primary canon trumps everything else.
Oh, yeah... Upgrades for the god tiers.
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Sniper670
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"Arcues is a God who Transcends All"
I tried to fact check with the nature of Arceus
1. He's conceptless..... Born from the primordial chaos. Where there was nothingness, no law, no concept. Wikipedia explanation of chaos
2. He predates the reality he made.
3. The laws and systems-everything he made after he came into being
4. Which he kinda jumbled up for the Distortion world. Which is why Giratina even got Acausality type 4. He should have Physics and Logic manipulation too but eh
6. His existence is beyond the multiverse
5. His realm is so far away from the Pokémon reality that Giratina couldnt reach it, and had to bait him with the plates(he failed of course).
His Avatar you fought, is also a lot stronger than The CT you fought, even when they supposedly assumed their true form or whatever the hell that was. . And that's only a fragment of his being
There's more than enough context to assert the credibility of that statement if you ask me
I tried to fact check with the nature of Arceus
1. He's conceptless..... Born from the primordial chaos. Where there was nothingness, no law, no concept. Wikipedia explanation of chaos
2. He predates the reality he made.
3. The laws and systems-everything he made after he came into being
4. Which he kinda jumbled up for the Distortion world. Which is why Giratina even got Acausality type 4. He should have Physics and Logic manipulation too but eh
6. His existence is beyond the multiverse
5. His realm is so far away from the Pokémon reality that Giratina couldnt reach it, and had to bait him with the plates(he failed of course).
His Avatar you fought, is also a lot stronger than The CT you fought, even when they supposedly assumed their true form or whatever the hell that was. . And that's only a fragment of his being
There's more than enough context to assert the credibility of that statement if you ask me
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You swapped 5 and 6 there, my dude.
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Is their evidence for this. It creating the concepts of Space, Time, Anti-Matter, Emtion, Willpower, and Knowledge, wouldn't quite be enough.
Not relevant
That's not what the quote says. You can interpret that, but it isn't what it says.
All in all, you aren't getting Trandualility/Tier 1/Whatever from this stuff alone.
Sniper670
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Here's the quote:
All that was there in the beginning was a swell of chaos (混沌のうねり).
The Distortion world opposes the laws of the Pokémon reality. Which is why the laws of physics, causality and logic in general all is messed up. And guess who created the Pokémon multiverse and those laws
And guess who existed before the multiverse and those laws
And guess who was mentioned to by the senior director at GameFreak to be transcendent over everything in reality
Arceus True Self isn't even in the multiverse. Smh. And his avatar is too much for the CT.
Masuda made mention of his transcendence anyway. What I was doing was adding more context.
Unless you can prove Masuda is lying.
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Masuda/Game Freak/whoever can say they transcend the Pokéverse, and honestly I believe them... doesn't mean it's Transduality/Tier 1/whatever.
Nothing in the last two posts you have here are good enough evidence for these things.
Nothing in the last two posts you have here are good enough evidence for these things.
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PL:A Anime confirmed for May 18th!
www.pokemon.com
Coming Soon: Pokémon: Hisuian Snow on Pokémon TV and YouTube
Learn about a time when Pokémon and humans lived separate lives with a new limited animated series.
www.pokemon.com
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NicePL:A Anime confirmed for May 18th!
Coming Soon: Pokémon: Hisuian Snow on Pokémon TV and YouTube
Learn about a time when Pokémon and humans lived separate lives with a new limited animated series.
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We definitely not going for tier 1
Sniper670
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Where from tier 1? That's not what I was aiming for
Well.......... But isn't the Distortion world and the Pokémon world a Duality? I dunno about you but they're clearly explained as one
Even spirit and matter. The LT and CT keep balance in the multiverse. And are also described as dual concepts in the games. Also a Duality
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Probably Type 1 Transduality at best.
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I gotta agree with you. It may be Type 1, may not be. Definitely isn't Type 2.
Sniper670
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Just 3 episodes. MehnPL:A Anime confirmed for May 18th!
Coming Soon: Pokémon: Hisuian Snow on Pokémon TV and YouTube
Learn about a time when Pokémon and humans lived separate lives with a new limited animated series.
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Bruuuh
Sniper670
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How about Aca 5, Bde, nep 2 and chaos manipulation from the mock crt I made
Sniper670
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Looks like there might not even be a creation trio from the premise
Would've been great to delve into the lore more, instead of focusing on a kid and zorua but ehh.....
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No, probably not, possibly not, maybe.
Sniper670
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Hmmph... Alright. Guess I'll abandon it then.
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Pretty sure Arceus qualifies for BDE 2, with the new BDE rules, as it is no longer tied to tier.
At least I am 99% sure predating, inventing, and existing beyond spacetime counts as "being superior to them in nature" (and, of course, Arceus > Dialga+Palkia+Giratina). And since spacetime exists within the Original Spirit, rather than vice versa, I assume it also lacks spatiotemporal features.
I have no strong opinion either way for the rest (Except aca5, which is a definitive no. At best it has above baseline aca4), but specifically BDE2, I see no reason why it shouldn't have.
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Sniper670
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Pretty much confirms what Masuda said anyway.
I mean Madoka got Aca 5 for becoming an existence which is no longer a part of the universe. Outside of time, cause and effect
Arceus true existence is not part of the multiverse, he's Omnipresent alright, but he lives far beyond it, as seen from PLA. He's outside of time , and the laws of the multiverse, which we already know has laws of cause and effect that even the Distortion world disobeys. I mean, it's not as if his Avatar can't already overturn the laws within the world if he feels like it. Because, y'know, he created those things
The Distortion world goes "no,your world's logic won't work here, because my pops(Arceus) says so". And Arceus goes, "I'm too abstract to be interacted or bothered by both worlds laws and concepts so you deal with them imma stay out of it"
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Sniper670
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Type 5 is so hard to get because of anti feats. Qualification isn't the problem, maintaining it is. At least that's what I discovered after digging around
Arceus here we know his True self hasn't even made an appearance in the multiverse and is only interacting with it through Avatars. Because abstract
The reason why madoka has maintained type 5 is because the madokas that interacts with the world are simple avatars. Her true self is outside, same for Arceus
Arceus here we know his True self hasn't even made an appearance in the multiverse and is only interacting with it through Avatars. Because abstract
The reason why madoka has maintained type 5 is because the madokas that interacts with the world are simple avatars. Her true self is outside, same for Arceus
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The problem is that you need to have a direct mention of cause and effect.
That's pretty much the reason Madoka has it, because she has a direct mention of Cause and Effect. While Arceus only has extrapolation because it has no direct statements of it being outside causality.
That's pretty much the reason Madoka has it, because she has a direct mention of Cause and Effect. While Arceus only has extrapolation because it has no direct statements of it being outside causality.
Sniper670
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This was the scan that was used to upgrade her to Aca 5.
This is the thread
If Arceus transcends his reality, that would apply to the laws he made within them. Remember that he existed before all the laws were made.
The Distortion world is a place where he goes "what will happen if I inversed the laws of causality/physics/logic that I made in the Pokémon world". Thereby creating Aca 4 on a whim. Why would he be binnded by the laws he established?
He created the law of causality, and everything in creation, when there was nothing. Inversed those laws for the Distortion world and is currently chilling in his realm beyond time and space
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Aca 5 is a no. There is not enough evidence. For aca 5, the evidence needs to be so overwhelming that it can't be denied at all, in order to be accepted. Unless Arceus is straight up mentioned to specifically transcend causality, he does not get 5. The difference is that Madoka has a direct statement. Arceus does not.
Sniper670
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Here's a justification of type 5 for Warhammer. This is literally explaining Distortion world
Isn't the creator of the laws, transcendent over such laws. Question I'm asking.
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In that case, Warhammer needs it removed. Warhammer only qualifies for "Possibly aca 4" if that is all the evidence there is.
In fact, if there is no more evidence for Realm of Chaos to have acausality, it has less of a leg to stand on than Distortion World (as the latter has direct statements of at least irregular).
And what I want is a direct confirmation, not extrapolation, that Arceus is above causality as a whole. Anything less than that does not qualify.
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Sniper670
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Well, the chaos gods still have Aca 5 for the same reason that the the distortion world has for aca 4.
As for removal, no one seems to have any issues with it.
So either they nuke the hell out of it or at least give Arceus type 5. He created and exists outside of an Aca 5 system
