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Nice job using a non official wiki to refute official confirmationCanon
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Nice job using a non official wiki to refute official confirmationCanon
m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net
Read about the Pokémon canon
It is the Pocket Monsters Series, and Mystery Dungeon is not part of that brand. It is part of Pocket Monsters, but not Pocket Monsters Series.This is the Pokemon company, and mystery dungeon is part of this brand
Is this some poor excuse for a joke?
Time gears, Dark Matter, Tree of Life. Why the heck would Arceus plant a tree in pmd to rely on because of a spinoff game.. Silly as hell when Arceus himself was going to destroy creationYou also haven't proved PMD wasn't canon, other than saying there are differences, but I told you why even the games have differences
Then we go with the main canon, which is the mainline games. Over there, plates aren't his life force. In fact they're always thrown away somewhere on the planet. No need for em. Just fodder fragments of his True FormThis would just mean the anime plates are different, not that its non canon. Arceus has multiple plates
They're only selling the games. That's not proof of canonicity at all.This is the Pokemon company, and mystery dungeon is part of this brand
Why does this matter? I gave other evidence that stuff not even part of the series you listed is canon to the games, and actual evidence that mystery dungeon is canonIt is the Pocket Monsters Series, and Mystery Dungeon is not part of that brand. It is part of Pocket Monsters, but not Pocket Monsters Series.
Because you are using Mystery Dungeon to challenge stuff that can't be argued away with parallel universes, since it involves entities at and above the level of EVERY universe. And in an argument between 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ and not-『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ on that scale is a default win for 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ, since 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ is the primary canon. Even if we go by the claim that everything with the name Pokémon on it is canon, down to, and including, fanfics, and all of it said one thing about the cosmology/Gods/Existence of the Multiverse/Anything else that can't be argued away with alternate realities, while 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ said another, 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ would win that argument. This is the case, because you need to prove that the Anime/Manga/Spin-offs are canon, but 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ is, by its very existence, considered canon, and anything that needs to be proven canon needs to be proven canon to 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ. That is what's called a primary canon. Something that does not need to be proven canon. Or said another way: If 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ wasn't canon, Pokémon as a whole wouldn't be canon to itself.Why does this matter? I gave other evidence that stuff not even part of the series you listed is canon to the games, and actual evidence that mystery dungeon is canon
Is it? Time Gears, Dark matter, Tree of lifeWhy does this matter? I gave other evidence that stuff not even part of the series you listed is canon to the games, and actual evidence that mystery dungeon is canon
The anime is also not published by that company, and is still considered canon, so that whole argument is invalidBecause you are using Mystery Dungeon to challenge stuff that can't be argued away with parallel universes, since it involves entities at and above the level of EVERY universe. And in an argument between 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ and not-『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ on that scale is a default win for 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ, since 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ is the primary canon. Even if we go by the claim that everything with the name Pokémon on it is canon, down to, and including, fanfics, and all of it said one thing about the cosmology/Gods/Existence of the Multiverse/Anything else that can't be argued away with alternate realities, while 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ said another, 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ would win that argument. This is the case, because you need to prove that the Anime/Manga/Spin-offs are canon, but 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ is, by its very existence, considered canon, and anything that needs to be proven canon needs to be proven canon to 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ. That is what's called a primary canon. Something that does not need to be proven canon. Or said another way: If 『ポケットモンスター』シリーズ wasn't canon, Pokémon as a whole wouldn't be canon to itself.
So what were we doing before the thread got derailed?
We weren't doing much. But this is what started the whole walls of textsTranscending everything is very vague, unless he says "transcends all concepts". Arceus doesn't even transcend the Tree of Life
The Anime is considered canon, because the first party (Gamefreak/TPC) says it's canon. And the argument isn't that Mystery Dungeon isn't canon. The argument is that it isn't a primary canon. Just like the Anime or Manga isn't primary canon. Only the Pocket Monsters Series games can be primary canon, and they can't be anything but. And in the event of contradictions, primary canon trumps everything else.The anime is also not published by that company, and is still considered canon, so that whole argument is invalid
You also conveniently ignored the other stuff I showed of it being canon
Oh, yeah... Upgrades for the god tiers.Yemma was talking about abilities for Giratina
You swapped 5 and 6 there, my dude."Arcues is a God who Transcends All"
I tried to fact check with the nature of Arceus
1. He's conceptless..... Born from the primordial chaos. Where there was nothingness, no law, no concept. Wikipedia explanation of chaos
2. He predates the reality he made.
3. The laws and systems-everything he made after he came into being
4. Which he kinda jumbled up for the Distortion world. Which is why Giratina even got Acausality type 4. He should have Physics and Logic manipulation too but eh
6. His existence is beyond the multiverse
5. His realm is so far away from the Pokémon reality that Giratina couldnt reach it, and had to bait him with the plates(he failed of course).
His Avatar you fought, is also a lot stronger than The CT you fought, even when they supposedly assumed their true form or whatever the hell that was. . And that's only a fragment of his being
There's more than enough context to assert the credibility of that statement if you ask me
Is their evidence for this. It creating the concepts of Space, Time, Anti-Matter, Emtion, Willpower, and Knowledge, wouldn't quite be enough.no law, no concept.
Not relevant
That's not what the quote says. You can interpret that, but it isn't what it says.
Here's the quote:Is their evidence for this. It creating the concepts of Space, Time, Anti-Matter, Emtion, Willpower, and Knowledge, wouldn't quite be enough.
The Distortion world opposes the laws of the Pokémon reality. Which is why the laws of physics, causality and logic in general all is messed up. And guess who created the Pokémon multiverse and those lawsThat's not what the quote says. You can interpret that, but it isn't what it says
Masuda made mention of his transcendence anyway. What I was doing was adding more context..
All in all, you aren't getting Trandualility/Tier 1/Whatever from this stuff alone.
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We definitely not going for tier 1Masuda/Game Freak/whoever can say they transcend the Pokéverse, and honestly I believe them... doesn't mean it's Transduality/Tier 1/whatever.
Nothing in the last two posts you have here are good enough evidence for these things.
Where from tier 1? That's not what I was aiming forMasuda/Game Freak/whoever can say they transcend the Pokéverse, and honestly I believe them... doesn't mean it's Transduality/Tier 1/whatever.
Well.......... But isn't the Distortion world and the Pokémon world a Duality? I dunno about you but they're clearly explained as oneNothing in the last two posts you have here are good enough evidence for these things.
I gotta agree with you. It may be Type 1, may not be. Definitely isn't Type 2.Probably Type 1 Transduality at best.
Just 3 episodes. MehnPL:A Anime confirmed for May 18th!
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BruuuhJust 3 episodes. Mehn
Probably Type 1 Transduality at best.
Looks like there might not even be a creation trio from the premiseBruuuh
No, probably not, possibly not, maybe.How about Aca 5, Bde, nep 2 and chaos manipulation from the mock crt I made
Hmmph... Alright. Guess I'll abandon it then.No, probably not, possibly not, maybe.
No, probably not, possibly not, maybe.
At least I am 99% sure predating, inventing, and existing beyond spacetime counts as "being superior to them in nature" (and, of course, Arceus > Dialga+Palkia+Giratina). And since spacetime exists within the Original Spirit, rather than vice versa, I assume it also lacks spatiotemporal features.Type 2: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features and being superior to them in nature. These characters aren't necessarily superior to spacetime on every level, but just within the scope which they are shown. Due to transcending this spacetime they are immune to Spatial Manipulation and Time Manipulation of it. They furthermore inherit any benefits of Type 1.
Pretty much confirms what Masuda said anyway.At least I am 99% sure predating, inventing, and existing beyond spacetime counts as "being superior to them in nature" (and, of course, Arceus > Dialga+Palkia+Giratina). And since spacetime exists within the Original Spirit, rather than vice versa, I assume it also lacks spatiotemporal features.
I mean Madoka got Aca 5 for becoming an existence which is no longer a part of the universe. Outside of time, cause and effectI have no strong opinion either way for the rest (Except aca5, which is a definitive no. At best it has above baseline aca4), but specifically BDE2, I see no reason why it shouldn't have.
This was the scan that was used to upgrade her to Aca 5.That's pretty much the reason Madoka has it, because she has a direct mention of Cause and Effect. While Arceus only has extrapolation because it has no direct statements of it being outside causality.
Here's a justification of type 5 for Warhammer. This is literally explaining Distortion worldAca 5 is a no. There is not enough evidence. For aca 5, the evidence needs to be so overwhelming that it can't be denied at all, in order to be accepted. Unless Arceus is straight up mentioned to specifically transcend causality, he does not get 5. The difference is that Madoka has a direct statement. Arceus does not.
In that case, Warhammer needs it removed. Warhammer only qualifies for "Possibly aca 4" if that is all the evidence there is.Here's a justification of type 5 for Warhammer. This is literally explaining Distortion world
Isn't the creator of the laws, transcendent over such laws. Question I'm asking.
Masudas literally says Arceus is transcendent over his reality. What more do you want
Well, the chaos gods still have Aca 5 for the same reason that the the distortion world has for aca 4.In that case, Warhammer needs it removed. Warhammer only qualifies for "Possibly aca 4" if that is all the evidence there is.
In fact, if there is no more evidence for Realm of Chaos to have acausality, it has less of a leg to stand on than Distortion World (as the latter has direct statements of at least irregular).