Warhammer Fantasy Acausality type 5

[Blackcurrant91]

So a few people have said Warhammer Fantasy Chaos Gods shouldn't have type 5 acausality and a bunch of others have agreed with me that it should.

This thread is to discuss if its worth making a CRT to change it to type 4.

Scans used to justify type 5 are



and

 

[SomaKing13]

Personally from these two statements, I'm on the side of Type 5 Acausality, as it seems pretty blunt that the ROC transcends things like Causality, space-time, and basically everything from the Material Universe.

 

[Loyd]

was this the only 2 piece of evidence that gave Chaos gods type 5(iirc thr was a book talking about chaos in 40K)
minus the chaos flair the cognitive world of persona isnt diffferent to this
i also agree with this post btw

 

[Blackcurrant91]

This is just for Fantasy CG's.

 

[Loyd]

oh boy

 

[Naito-desu]

I agree with the statements above

 

[Loyd]

someone can correct me if im wrong while the Realm of chaos and cognition world function alike

joker and the gang having high cognition resistance and can effect the cognitive world to a certain degree like making fake guns real and ryuji harming invulnerable shadows they dont control the cognition world

all are influx and utterly mutable to the will of chaos gods
unlike the chaos gods who rule over thr realm and can change it with thr will

i honestly dont know the difference from type 4 to 5 acausality anymore can someone give me ther interpretation

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Does the collective unconscious transcend the causality system of the real world? if so it should be type 5 (which seems to have already been accepted but also it's not on Jokers profile?)

 

[Naito-desu]

Type 4 doesn't necessarily mean you're immune from Causality, it means you operate on a different level of causality that lets you resist regular Causality Manip. Type 5 Acausality means that you transcend any Causality system, meaning you are immune to any cause and effect is how I'd interpret it

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Yeah basically this ^

 

[Loyd]

so
type 4 - a different more tougher causality
type 5 - transcends casuality
?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

From Ultima and Glass, this is Type 4. Nothing is stated to be transcendent of casualty, and it's just malleable/nonexistent to them.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

the ROC is completely transcendent over the causality system of the Mortal Realm. They should make a CRT or comment here if they disagree.

 

[Loyd]

Does the collective unconscious transcend the causality system of the real world? if so it should be type 5 (which seems to have already been accepted but also it's not on Jokers profile?)

i think it does or atleast joker can resists type 5 i havent read into persona Q which elaborates more in depth

edit: nvm fantasy CG downgrade then?
edit edit: nvm ???

 

[Blackcurrant91]

the ROC is completely transcendent over the causality system of the Mortal Realm. They should make a CRT or comment here if they disagree.

Cause and Effect literally doesn't exist in the ROC unless the CG's want it to.

 

[Loyd]

Cause and Effect literally don't exist in the ROC unless the CG's want it to.

i think he atleast can resist type 5 then thrs multiple occasion of deities controling the cognitive worlds power only to lose to the trickster unless the cognitive world doesnt transcend causality/is type 4

 

[Naito-desu]

Unless I'm remembering it wrong, Cognitive world is still bound by some form of causality that only Joker and the gang resist since Joker can resist the binds of fate so strong that even Persona gods are not immune to it, so that would just make them Type 4 I believe

 

[Blackcurrant91]

lets try not to derail if possible. It's getting confusing enough with some agreeing and mods disagreeing.

 

[Naito-desu]

That depends on how it's interpreted, but ROC is outside the rest of the Warhammer world and transcends its causality. The Acausality page implies that Type 4 Acausals still operate under some form of causality, however irregular and illogical that causality may be. If ROC doesn't seem to be subject to any causality whatsoever, operates not only independently outside of the physical Warhammer world's system of causality but also transcends it, then I don't see how ROC isn't Type 5.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

That depends on how it's interpreted, but ROC is outside the rest of the Warhammer world and transcends its causality. The Acausality page implies that Type 4 Acausals still operate some under causality, so I don't see how ROC isn't Type 5 if the Realm of Chaos itself operates outside of a system and transcends that system's causality.

Yeah this ^

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Something interesting to note is that I only got type 5 acausality from the old Fantasy CG profiles made by Matt that had it. I just tried to find the scans justifying it.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

i think it does or atleast joker can resists type 5 i havent read into persona Q which elaborates more in depth

edit: nvm fantasy CG downgrade then?
edit edit: nvm ???

He has Type 2 CM, so it wouldn't matter. Regardless, the Collective Unconscious doesn't transcend causality, it exists before it, and manipulates it as if it doesn't exist.

Cause and Effect literally doesn't exist in the ROC unless the CG's want it to.

But that isn't Type 5.

 

[Naito-desu]

Umm what I just said?

 

[Blackcurrant91]

But that isn't Type 5.

Their 'selves' that create even irregular causality are transcended by their true and abstract selfs. It's likely that only their Abstract self Key has type 5 now that I think about it

 

[Loyd]

Something interesting to note is that I only got type 5 acausality from the old Fantasy CG profiles made by Matt that had it. I just tried to find the scans justifying it.

can i see those scans or are u refering to the 2 post above

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Their 'selves' that create even irregular causality are transcended by their true and abstract selfs. It's likely that only their Abstract self Key has type 5 now that I think about it

Is there a scan of that?

 

[Blackcurrant91]

can i see those scans or are u refering to the 2 post above

Yeah the two I have already posted. Im gonna go scan hunting tonight though.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Is there a scan of that?

Khorne see's his personal realm and avatar as just an Image.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Not what I meant, but eh.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I mean he likely transcends his avatars/personal realm that is the ROC itself if he see's it as just an image.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Bump, I still need to know if this is worth making a CRT for.

 

[Loyd]

That depends on how it's interpreted, but ROC is outside the rest of the Warhammer world and transcends its causality. The Acausality page implies that Type 4 Acausals still operate under some form of causality, however irregular and illogical that causality may be. If ROC doesn't seem to be subject to any causality whatsoever, operates not only independently outside of the physical Warhammer world's system of causality but also transcends it, then I don't see how ROC isn't Type 5.

This claim wasnt refuted is thr any more scans for ROC being type 5 i dont doubt 40k
But the possibility of fantasy chaos gods being type 4 lmaoo

 

[Blackcurrant91]

'If ROC doesn't seem to be subject to any causality whatsoever, operates not only independently outside of the physical Warhammer world's system of causality but also transcends it, then I don't see how ROC isn't Type 5'

This is literally what the ROC is and the scans I have posted show that as far as I can tell.

 

[Naito-desu]

Yeah I was saying that contrary to people who doubt it

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I mean if Glass/Ultima can't be bothered to comment here i'm just gonna leave it for some1 else to make a CRT then