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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

SuperKamiNappa said:
So a random bottle of water is still better than a man made potion.
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Bottled Water heals 50 HP.
Modern man-made spray potions heal 20 HP.
Topically applied Potions as seen in Pokemon: Legends Arceus heal 60 HP. If Pokemon have higher HP, it could be the same or less, proportionally to the higher HP; 60 of 120 is a lot, but 60 of 300 isn't as much, for example.
Also in the modern-era games, Soda Pop heals 60 HP, Lemonade heals 80 HP, Moo Moo Milk Heals 100 HP, & Hyper Potions heal 200 HP. Just if anyone's curious.
 
It's from a latest episode. The magnemite had a transmission sent to them by a loose stallite and tried to evolve all together and became that thing for a few seconds
 
So just a question how high or low into High 3-A do the Tapus and Ultra Beasts scale again? The Light Trio are all baseline High 3-A and the four Tapus together were able to face Solgaleo and Lunala right? I'm not exactly sure but I do remember something along the lines of that being on their profile at some point but now their profiles are kind of messy and the scaling is kind of circular so I'm confused what lvl they scale to.
 
Okay so looking at the bulbapedia stuff regarding the Alola legendaries and it says that according to "The Light of Alola" the four Tapus together lost to Solgaleo or Lunala depending on the version of the game. And from what I recall in the manga the Ultra Beasts are stated and shown to be stronger than the Tapus. And the Ultra Beasts are in turn weaker than Type:Null who is in turn weaker than Silvally who is capable of one shotting Ultra Beasts. And if my guess is correct Silvally was supposed to be weaker than the Solgaleo and Lunala who is weaker than but comparable to Base Necrozma who is baseline high 3-A right? So the scaling would be

Baseline High 3-A = Base Necrozma >= Solgaleo = Lunala > Silvally > Type: Null > Ultra Beasts > Tapus =< 1/4 Baseline High 3-A?

So do the Tapus and Ultra Beasts scale to 1/4 of the Light Trio or do they just heavily downscale from Baseline High 3-A to the point where Pokemon weaker than baseline High 3-A can one shot them? Or am I just wrong about the scaling? Cause I kind of want to use them in a match but I really don't know what lvl of High 3-A they scale to.
 
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It's wrong.
First, it didn't take 4 tapus to take one attack from lunala or solgaleo so they scale just slightly below them or to them.
L and S have a high 3-A statement for themselves as well. Lunala and Solgaleo scale to base N.

You can't divide infinity mate
 
Arceus0x said:
It's wrong.
First, it didn't take 4 tapus to take one attack from lunala or solgaleo so they scale just slightly below them or to them.
L and S have a high 3-A statement for themselves as well. Lunala and Solgaleo scale to base N.

You can't divide infinity mate
Click to expand...
You actually can divide and multiply infinity and be a lower or higher lvl of infinity. There’s a reason why there are some characters that are High 3-A but above or below baseline High 3-A.

So I guess they just massively downscale from baseline High 3-A then. Since assuming Tapus are only slightly below them makes no sense at all. Lunala was outright shown to one shot a horde of Ultra Beasts with one attack in the manga and the Ultra Beasts were shown to be stronger than the Tapus.
 
Peter1129 said:
You actually can divide and multiply infinity and be a lower or higher lvl of infinity. There’s a reason why there are some characters that are High 3-A but above or below baseline High 3-A.

So I guess they just massively downscale from baseline High 3-A then. Since assuming Tapus are only slightly below them makes no sense at all. Lunala was outright shown to one shot a horde of Ultra Beasts with one attack in the manga and the Ultra Beasts were shown to be stronger than the Tapus.
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First off, scans?
Second, no, yet again, no, you can't divide infinity and if a verse uses division of infinity then they don't know math
 
Lunala one shots Ultra Beast horde

Tapu Lele being overpowered by Xurkitree

Moon states that Tapu Lele didn’t stand a chance against Xurkitree

You do realize Pokémon is literally one of the verses that scale above infinity by multipliers right? Dawn Wind/Dusk Mane Necrozma is 2x baseline High 3-A because of him absorbing either Solgaleo or Lunala same with Black/White Kyurem. Also it’s the staffs that approved of downscaling below baseline High 3-A but still be High 3-A so you should go change the standards if you think this shouldn’t happen.
 
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Pssh that's why i dislike the whole idea of high 3-A ratings. They only scale somewhat below each other.
The manga is pretty inconsistent with a lot of things related to UBs but i guess the UBs to scale notably below Lunala. It shouldn't be 100% one-shot worthy especially considering one-shots in pokemon are very different from one-shots in vsbattles
 
Well the manga is the whole reason why High 3-A Pokémon exist in the first place. Any way so from what I am getting at now basically

Light Trio are baseline High 3-A and can one shot Ultra Beasts who are stronger than Tapus. But the Ultra Beasts and Tapus are still strong enough to somewhat cause damage to them. So I just assume they can cause slight damage to baseline High 3-As but will be one shot by them.

Well that’s better. This means the AP between the characters I’m gonna use is actually kind of close. Well then next question. Do we assume a Pokémon trainer can only use 6 of their Pokémon in battle or all of them that they have if they have more than 6 listed on their profile. Since technically the manga has shown that trainers can use more than 6 Pokemon at once.
 
Peter1129 said:
Well the manga is the whole reason why High 3-A Pokémon exist in the first place. Any way so from what I am getting at now basically

Light Trio are baseline High 3-A and can one shot Ultra Beasts who are stronger than Tapus. But the Ultra Beasts and Tapus are still strong enough to somewhat cause damage to them. So I just assume they can cause slight damage to baseline High 3-As but will be one shot by them.

Well that’s better. This means the AP between the characters I’m gonna use is actually kind of close. Well then next question. Do we assume a Pokémon trainer can only use 6 of their Pokémon in battle or all of them that they have if they have more than 6 listed on their profile. Since technically the manga has shown that trainers can use more than 6 Pokemon at once.
Click to expand...
I believe that that assumption is wrong. You only need a 2x difference sometimes to one-shot in pokemon.

A pokemom trainer can only use 6 as they never use more than that in battles
 
So what the Ultra Beasts and Tapus are 1/2 baseline High 3-A? Well if that’s the case I should probably let Elio use Zygarde and the Light Trio in battle since I don’t think the Ultra Beasts and Tapus will be strong enough to make the match fair.

Looks at the manga Pokémon trainers using dozens of Pokémon in battle at once way back in Kanto. Yeah okay.
 
Peter1129 said:
So what the Ultra Beasts and Tapus are 1/2 baseline High 3-A? Well if that’s the case I should probably let Elio use Zygarde and the Light Trio in battle since I don’t think the Ultra Beasts and Tapus will be strong enough to make the match fair.

Looks at the manga Pokémon trainers using dozens of Pokémon in battle at once way back in Kanto. Yeah okay.
Click to expand...
Look man i haven't read the manga. I've no acess to most chapters. I've never seen pokemon trainers use multiple pokemon in a vs thread but might as well try.
 
Ok. But still I kind of need to know what lvl of High 3-A they scale to first. Cause I’d rather not use them in battle only for the battle to be a stomp or whatever. Where did the 2x one shot for Pokémon even come from? Can they downscale using that or not?
 
Peter1129 said:
Ok. But still I kind of need to know what lvl of High 3-A they scale to first. Cause I’d rather not use them in battle only for the battle to be a stomp or whatever. Where did the 2x one shot for Pokémon even come from? Can they downscale using that or not?
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have you ever played pokemon? You can one-shot with 2x super effective moves. Lunala is superior to them but not to the extent that we have one-shots on the wiki
 
Peter1129 said:
Wait so the 2x comes from game mechanics? Are you even allowed to use game mechanics like?
Click to expand...
no, im just saying that the one-shots are not the same as the 7.5x difference for one-shots accepted in vsbattles.

The 2x+ for Ultra Necrozma comes from being equal to 100% zygarde.
 
I mean well of course one shots are different for different verses I even remember there being a series where a 1.5x difference is enough to one shot. But you aren’t really answering my questions regarding their AP on how much they downscale. I’m asking about the Tapus and the Ultra Beasts. I know what lvl the Light Trio and Zygarde scale to since their scaling is pretty simple.
 
Peter1129 said:
I mean well of course one shots are different for different verses I even remember there being a series where a 1.5x difference is enough to one shot. But you aren’t really answering my questions regarding their AP on how much they downscale. I’m asking about the Tapus and the Ultra Beasts. I know what lvl the Light Trio and Zygarde scale to since their scaling is pretty simple.
Click to expand...
just scale the tapus to baseline and UBs slightly below baseline.

Both Solgaleo and Lunala have more than 50% of UNs Ap as they both have enough energy to transform a fully drained necrozma into UN. Base necrozma scales to or slightly below Solgaleo and Lunala. Tapus can fight Solgaleo and Lunala directly so they'd scale just below them and Ultra beasts scale even lower but still comparable to tapus.
 
Okay last I checked wasn’t Base Necrozma outright shown to be superior to Solgaleo and Lunala in all Pokemon media? I recall Base Necrozma beating Lunala rather easily in the manga, and in the anime it was also able to overpower Lunala and Solgaleo and absorb them to become Dawn Wing/Dusk Mane Necrozma. And according to bulbapedia‘s lore regarding Necrozma Solgaleo/Lunala together with the Tapus fought and still lost to Base Necrozma in the past.

Base Necrozma easily defeating Lunala

According to secret notes found in the Malie Library, Necrozma at one point invaded Alola, stealing all of its light, covering the region in darkness as a result. SolgaleoUS/LunalaUM, along with the Guardian deities, fought together against Necrozma at the Tapu Village to recover the stolen light. Necrozma then defeated and absorbed the Legendary Pokémon to become Dusk ManeUS/Dawn WingsUM Necrozma. A youth, along with the Guardian deities, used the power of the Z-Crystals and Sparkling Stones to free SolgaleoUS/LunalaUM from Necrozma, who was then banished from Alola. At as a result of its actions, Necrozma was called the "Pillager of Light" by the ancient king of Alola, who ordered that all books mentioning Necrozma were to be burned to prevent further panic. However, not all was destroyed.

Don’t remember which episode Necrozma was in in the anime but just by looking at the clips on YouTube its shown that Lunala was eventually overpowered and absorbed by Base Necrozma even while being backed up by a bunch of trainers.

So isn’t Base Necrozma > Solgaleo and Lunala in literally all media and lore? And assuming we do currently use the super effective thing on the profiles wouldn't that mean the Tapus are only at most half as strong as Solgaleo/Lunala?
 
Peter1129 said:
Okay last I checked wasn’t Base Necrozma outright shown to be superior to Solgaleo and Lunala in all Pokemon media? I recall Base Necrozma beating Lunala rather easily in the manga, and in the anime it was also able to overpower Lunala and Solgaleo and absorb them to become Dawn Wing/Dusk Mane Necrozma. And according to bulbapedia‘s lore regarding Necrozma Solgaleo/Lunala together with the Tapus fought and still lost to Base Necrozma in the past.

Base Necrozma easily defeating Lunala

According to secret notes found in the Malie Library, Necrozma at one point invaded Alola, stealing all of its light, covering the region in darkness as a result. SolgaleoUS/LunalaUM, along with the Guardian deities, fought together against Necrozma at the Tapu Village to recover the stolen light. Necrozma then defeated and absorbed the Legendary Pokémon to become Dusk ManeUS/Dawn WingsUM Necrozma. A youth, along with the Guardian deities, used the power of the Z-Crystals and Sparkling Stones to free SolgaleoUS/LunalaUM from Necrozma, who was then banished from Alola. At as a result of its actions, Necrozma was called the "Pillager of Light" by the ancient king of Alola, who ordered that all books mentioning Necrozma were to be burned to prevent further panic. However, not all was destroyed.

Don’t remember which episode Necrozma was in in the anime but just by looking at the clips on YouTube its shown that Lunala was eventually overpowered and absorbed by Base Necrozma even while being backed up by a bunch of trainers.

So isn’t Base Necrozma > Solgaleo and Lunala in literally all media and lore? And assuming we do currently use the super effective thing on the profiles wouldn't that mean the Tapus are only at most half as strong as Solgaleo/Lunala?
Click to expand...
please forget the supereffective scaling, i literally used it once to explain that one-shots aren't the same in pokemon verse as they are in vsbattles to prove that UBs don't get one-shotted by baseline high 3-As.

Anyways yes Necrozma is superior but that just means that it is slightly above its feat or Lunala and Solgaleo can't use all of their power at once.
Tapus scale down from Lunala and Solgaleo but not by much and they would be just a bit weaker than them.
 
Lunala isn’t even super effective against all the Ultra Beasts last I checked. It just one shot them with sheer AP. So I’m pretty sure baseline High 3-As can indeed one shot them. But they are still strong enough to cause slight damages to the baselines.

But whatever screw it. I’m just gonna go make the match and let the users that participate figure out the scaling and how it works after I post the scaling info I found. I can now understand why so many people have said to not touch Pokemon. It’s been so long I completely forgot how chaotic and controversial the scaling is.
 
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Peter1129 said:
Lunala isn’t even super effective against all the Ultra Beasts last I checked. It just one shot them with sheer AP. So I’m pretty sure baseline High 3-As can indeed one shot them. But they are still strong enough to cause slight damages to the baselines.

But whatever screw it. I’m just gonna go make the match and let the users that participate figure out the scaling and how it works after I post the scaling info I found. I can now understand why so many people have said to not touch Pokemon. It’s been so long I completely forgot how chaotic and controversial the scaling is.
Click to expand...
yeah scaling is a huge pain in the ass
 
All the new stuff in legends sounds pretty exciting, hopefully they don't **** it up or it is received well enough for them to keep it up.

Also, if there are "resercg levels" based on more than capturing pokemon, is it possible we will have more than one pokedex entry per pokemon? Or like, pokedex entries for the moves?
 
Thelastmlg said:
All the new stuff in legends sounds pretty exciting, hopefully they don't **** it up or it is received well enough for them to keep it up.

Also, if there are "resercg levels" based on more than capturing pokemon, is it possible we will have more than one pokedex entry per pokemon? Or like, pokedex entries for the moves?
Click to expand...
I'm interested in seeing the answer for that myself.
 
Game looks rather empty unfortunately.
I wonder when Nintendo will finally enter the modern era.
 
Thelastmlg said:
All the new stuff in legends sounds pretty exciting, hopefully they don't **** it up or it is received well enough for them to keep it up.

Also, if there are "resercg levels" based on more than capturing pokemon, is it possible we will have more than one pokedex entry per pokemon? Or like, pokedex entries for the moves?
Click to expand...
LORE!!

Jokes aside it's always fun reading the Pokédex entries and knowing the Pokémon world is one of the most dangerous places you could live in pop culture (Unless you become a Pokéhuman yourself then it's a "little" more manageable).
FinePoint said:
Game looks rather empty unfortunately.
I wonder when Nintendo will finally enter the modern era.
Click to expand...
Probably never tbh, I hope its not too controversial to say but thanks to the overwhelming brand power Nintendo commands with its IPs plus the cultural impact, they can keep on selling overpriced games and underpowered consoles indefinitely or until the gaming industry collapses.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Probably never tbh, I hope its not too controversial to say but thanks to the overwhelming brand power Nintendo commands with its IPs plus the cultural impact, they can keep on selling overpriced games and underpowered consoles indefinitely or until the gaming industry collapses.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Its fans will viciously defend the shitty games too.
I mean they literally release the same game with a worse appearance and people spend $60 on it then swear it's game of the year.

Not sure why people feel they need to be their favorite company's personal PR rep. You can enjoy a franchise and still recognize that most of the new games they release are terrible.

I remember when Left 4 Dead 2 was being developed, the team would extensively go over the question "What's new about this which justifies calling it a sequel, and not a cash-grab?"
No need to ask that question anymore if people will buy a literal turd with Pokémon™ slapped onto it.
 
Meanwhile, I'm worried about people using Legends: Arceus to claim that even if Professor Laventon whom they report to is, the scout/trainer is not a reliable author/narrator about the observations/behaviour/supernatural phenomenon of the Pokemon they observe, & from there, use the fact that this research predates contemporary Pokedex entries to claim that the Pokedex is flawed & wrong because they used faulty basises. (Unreliable observations made by a kid reporting to a professor, roughly a century before present day games.)
 
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