Plants vs. Zombies Discussion Thread: It's About Time! 🌱🧟‍♂️

[Ednaxel2]

It is, but meh

It isn't, you'd have to prove a laser is light based not that it's called a laser, that doesn't support it whatsoever

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Meh, any way, another feat I fell interisting is in the comics when the the machine that was used to remove the clouds in the city a lot of zombies are sucked by the tornado and theorically survived, this could be another dura feat

 

[Ednaxel2]

Meh, any way, another feat I fell interisting is in the comics when the the machine that was used to remove the clouds in the city a lot of zombies are sucked by the tornado and theorically survived, this could be another dura feat

Do you have the panels just incase?

 

[Ednaxel2]

We could calculate the size of it

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Do you have the panels just incase?

I gq e extreme dificult to find the comics online to get scans, but the tornado did destroyed a city sized clowd that was covering the sun and I'm almost sure this is a standard feats calc feat

 

[Dragonite007]

A strange feat that the Player has is stacking so many zombies that the stack goes into space and what appears to be a galaxy

 

[JustANormalLemon]

A strange feat that the Player has is stacking so many zombies that the stack goes into space and what appears to be a galaxy

I don't think this feat can be used sinse the player would be just caring the zombies one by one and putting in the top of the pile, but I think It should give the player at least some space related resistences sinse he had to go there to place the zombies

 

[Dragonite007]

I don't think this feat can be used sinse the player would be just caring the zombies one by one and putting in the top of the pile, but I think It should give the player at least some space related resistences sinse he had to go there to place the zombies

At least can be a speed feat for Penny and GW's machines, since, player can possible reach another galaxy just stacking zombies

 

[Wixzers]

This should enable the player to be massively FTL+

 

[JustANormalLemon]

At least can be a speed feat for Penny and GW's machines, since, player can possible reach another galaxy just stacking zombies

idk about that but meh, don't know

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I don't think this feat can be used sinse the player would be just caring the zombies one by one and putting in the top of the pile, but I think It should give the player at least some space related resistences sinse he had to go there to place the zombies

At least can be a speed feat for Penny and GW's machines, since, player can possible reach another galaxy just stacking zombies

This should enable the player to be massively FTL+

It's an assumption that the player stacked the zombies one by one and it's an assumption that the speed of the player has anything to do with this.

Before any explanations, I should establish in this discussion that "the player" is both a human avatar in-game that we never see on-screen and the actual player that plays the game from above separate from the human avatar. Even though the human avatar is in their house during gameplay, the actual player is capable of placing plants on the lawn to defend the house against zombies and doing other actions, viewing the lawn from above, without the human avatar needing to even peek outside.

Two things are clear. The zombies get put in a trash can when they are defeated, and they stack in it. However, there is no clear answer to the question of how exactly this happens. It's easy to reach a conclusion that contains a sensible idea like "the player puts them in there", but when the player is an ambiguous entity and the game's functions happening take priority over there being an actual character to represent those functions being interacted with, it's not very reliable to reach such a conclusion with certainty. The zombies automatically get put in the trash can, so I can claim that the game does it for the player, or the player from above has a teleportation effect that sends the zombies to the trash can after they fade out when defeated in gameplay. I can even claim that the game does the teleportation instead of the player from above. The three claims that I presented don't have any evidence of being any less true than the idea that the human avatar can move at MFTL+ speed to stack the zombies in the trash can, so there's no reason to prioritize any of them, and this occurrence should just be dismissed as what it is, a strange occurrence that's too ambiguous to reliably use as evidence for ranking the player.

Additionally, even if the human avatar does have a valid MFTL+ speed feat, it's an inconsistency. The player shouldn't actually be that fast, or else the game makes hardly any sense. It's clear that most of the zombies don't have super speed, or they at least never use it if they do have it, but any zombie surely ends up killing the player as soon as they get in the house. If the human avatar is MFTL+, then they would never get killed by any of the zombies that slowly walk unless those zombies and subsequently every character is scaled to the MFTL+ speed of the human avatar, which shouldn't happen. The same logic applies to the player from above. They can scroll the screen to view the zombies that got stacked to a galaxy, but doing so is just interacting with a function of that one screen, and more consistently, the slower action on the lawn is considered as a challenge for them.

 

[Ednaxel2]

What's the speed of the average human dolphin rider? a Dolphin is 5-11mph but it should be slower with a human on it

 

[Ednaxel2]

doing this to calculate PvZ1's speed

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

What's the speed of the average human dolphin rider? a Dolphin is 5-11mph but it should be slower with a human on it

doing this to calculate PvZ1's speed

I couldn't find the speed value, but it might not matter. The dolphins that Dolphin Rider Zombies use are zombie ones, and zombies have infinite stamina, so the zombie dolphins that you want to analyze probably don't get diminished velocity when swimming despite zombie humans riding them. That's if regular dolphins being rode on have less speed than they would have otherwise because of tiredness and not because of a lack of lifting capability. Dolphin riding isn't something that I'm very knowledgeable about, so I wouldn't know which reason is the correct one.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I couldn't find the speed value, but it might not matter. The dolphins that Dolphin Rider Zombies use are zombie ones, and zombies have infinite stamina, so the zombie dolphins that you want to analyze probably don't get diminished velocity when swimming despite zombie humans riding them. That's if regular dolphins being rode on have less speed than they would have otherwise because of tiredness and not because of a lack of lifting capability. Dolphin riding isn't something that I'm very knowledgeable about, so I wouldn't know which reason is the correct one.

The Dolphin would have to be trained so the Dolphin Zombie would have to be Athletic human in speed

 

[Ednaxel2]

What's the speed of the average human dolphin rider? a Dolphin is 5-11mph but it should be slower with a human on it

not in miles but km/h mb

 

[JustANormalLemon]

It's an assumption that the player stacked the zombies one by one and it's an assumption that the speed of the player has anything to do with this.

Before any explanations, I should establish in this discussion that "the player" is both a human avatar in-game that we never see on-screen and the actual player that plays the game from above separate from the human avatar. Even though the human avatar is in their house during gameplay, the actual player is capable of placing plants on the lawn to defend the house against zombies and doing other actions, viewing the lawn from above, without the human avatar needing to even peek outside.

Two things are clear. The zombies get put in a trash can when they are defeated, and they stack in it. However, there is no clear answer to the question of how exactly this happens. It's easy to reach a conclusion that contains a sensible idea like "the player puts them in there", but when the player is an ambiguous entity and the game's functions happening take priority over there being an actual character to represent those functions being interacted with, it's not very reliable to reach such a conclusion with certainty. The zombies automatically get put in the trash can, so I can claim that the game does it for the player, or the player from above has a teleportation effect that sends the zombies to the trash can after they fade out when defeated in gameplay. I can even claim that the game does the teleportation instead of the player from above. The three claims that I presented don't have any evidence of being any less true than the idea that the human avatar can move at MFTL+ speed to stack the zombies in the trash can, so there's no reason to prioritize any of them, and this occurrence should just be dismissed as what it is, a strange occurrence that's too ambiguous to reliably use as evidence for ranking the player.

Additionally, even if the human avatar does have a valid MFTL+ speed feat, it's an inconsistency. The player shouldn't actually be that fast, or else the game makes hardly any sense. It's clear that most of the zombies don't have super speed, or they at least never use it if they do have it, but any zombie surely ends up killing the player as soon as they get in the house. If the human avatar is MFTL+, then they would never get killed by any of the zombies that slowly walk unless those zombies and subsequently every character is scaled to the MFTL+ speed of the human avatar, which shouldn't happen. The same logic applies to the player from above. They can scroll the screen to view the zombies that got stacked to a galaxy, but doing so is just interacting with a function of that one screen, and more consistently, the slower action on the lawn is considered as a challenge for them.

Almost sure the player from above and the idea of the "game put's them there for You" bot would fall into game mechanics, agree with the rest

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Trough... the comics do show that the colectable suns are a representation of actual sunlight... so maybe the verse had always a light speed feat in the form of the suns

 

[Ednaxel2]

We can also use multipliers via touch wood amplifying peas 2x, its crazier for PvZ2

Also we should just have all Plants at max level for their PvZ2 keys in their profiles, the Pokemon page does this so we should to, it keeps things simple

 

[Ednaxel2]

Now to calculate this multiplier

Scaling Chain​

PvZ1​

Browncoat Zombies are comparable to other Zombies who can dig themself out from underground and make a fist-sized hole in the wall, Peashooter can damage and kill them, damage is 20 - 15 Kilojoules (Wall level)
With Torchwood he's 2x stronger, damage is 40 - 30 Kilojoules (Wall level)
Winter Melon can freeze zombies to absolute zero, Melon-pult is equal to him and can one shot Zombies in lore, damage is 80 - 0.0249 tons of TNT (Small Building level)
Doom Shroom can cause massive explosions, damage is 1,800 - 51.57005423 tons of TNT (City Block level)

PvZ2​

Level 1 Peashooter can damage and kill zombies who can tank lighting, his damage is 20 - 0.3824091778202677 tons of TNT (Building level)
With Torchwood he's 2x stronger, damage is 40 - 0.76481835564 tons of TNT (Building level)
At level 5 Peashooter can deal 40 damage - 0.76481835564 tons of TNT (Building level)
With Torchwood he's 2x stronger, damage is 80 - 1.52963671128 tons of TNT (Building level+)
At level 13 Peashooter can deal 80 damage - 1.52963671128 tons of TNT (Building level+)
With Torchwood he's 2x stronger, damage is 160, Max level Peashooter caps below this but not other plants - 3.05927342256 tons of TNT (Large Building level)
Doom Shroom causes this explosion, damage is 1,800 - 51.57005423 tons of TNT (City Block level)
Zomboss mechs can destroy multiple Gargantuars in one attack, can one shot the player's defensive Plant such as Tall-Nut, Infi-Nut, or Primal Wall-Nut - 55 tons of TNT (City Block level+)

Conclusion:​

PvZ1​

Plants/Zombies who scale to 20 damage or more - Wall level
Plants/Zombies who scale to 80 damage or more - Small Building level
Plants/Zombies who scale to 1,800 damage or more - City Block level

PvZ2​

Plants/Zombies who scale to 20 damage or more - Building level
Plants/Zombies who scale to 80 damage or more - Building level+
Plants/Zombies who scale to 160 damage or more - Large Building level
Plants/Zombies who scale to 1,800 damage or more - City Block level
Zomboss Mechs - City Block level+

Everyone in Garden Warfare/Heroes/Battle for Neighborville are at least Multi-City Block level, possibly Country level

 

[Ednaxel2]

I've condensed it all into this blog

 

[JustANormalLemon]

We can also use multipliers via touch wood amplifying peas 2x, its crazier for PvZ2

Also we should just have all Plants at max level for their PvZ2 keys in their profiles, the Pokemon page does this so we should to, it keeps things simple

Look at clash royal + zombies are all level 1 in the main game only getting levels in the penny pursuit and arena

 

[JustANormalLemon]

also, pokemon do that beacuse levels are tecniccally non cannon

 

[koopa3144]

also, pokemon do that beacuse levels are tecniccally non cannon

I mean technically one can argue that levels are canon in the game Pokemon continuity but that's off-topic.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I mean technically one can argue that levels are canon in the game Pokemon continuity but that's off-topic.

Me and all my hommies hate the decomposation of the pokemon profiles and verse

 

[Ednaxel2]

Look at clash royal + zombies are all level 1 in the main game only getting levels in the penny pursuit and arena

I see, anyways heres the thread where I'm trying to get the AP ratings accepted https://vsbattles.com/threads/pvz-upgrade-the-torchwood-meta.162505/

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I see, anyways heres the thread where I'm trying to get the AP ratings accepted https://vsbattles.com/threads/pvz-upgrade-the-torchwood-meta.162505/

You forgot to put the reason behind the changes in the thread, no one will accept otherwise, You need to say to what the values You listed scale to and why

Also, max level plants in PVZ 2 will scale to the explosives

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Also, for Heroes, BFN and GW I would say that they should just scale directly to the Contry level feat, and remove that part about "do like pokemon" we need thouse level keys

 

[Ednaxel2]

You forgot to put the reason behind the changes in the thread, no one will accept otherwise, You need to say to what the values You listed scale to and why

Also, max level plants in PVZ 2 will scale to the explosives

Did you check the blog post?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Did you check the blog post?

Yes, I said all of that before You fixed... or while You where fixing lol

 

[Ednaxel2]

Yes, I said all of that before You fixed... or while You where fixing lol

lol, I'll just wait until other members or staff give their input

 

[Dragonite007]

It's an assumption that the player stacked the zombies one by one and it's an assumption that the speed of the player has anything to do with this.

Before any explanations, I should establish in this discussion that "the player" is both a human avatar in-game that we never see on-screen and the actual player that plays the game from above separate from the human avatar. Even though the human avatar is in their house during gameplay, the actual player is capable of placing plants on the lawn to defend the house against zombies and doing other actions, viewing the lawn from above, without the human avatar needing to even peek outside.

Two things are clear. The zombies get put in a trash can when they are defeated, and they stack in it. However, there is no clear answer to the question of how exactly this happens. It's easy to reach a conclusion that contains a sensible idea like "the player puts them in there", but when the player is an ambiguous entity and the game's functions happening take priority over there being an actual character to represent those functions being interacted with, it's not very reliable to reach such a conclusion with certainty. The zombies automatically get put in the trash can, so I can claim that the game does it for the player, or the player from above has a teleportation effect that sends the zombies to the trash can after they fade out when defeated in gameplay. I can even claim that the game does the teleportation instead of the player from above. The three claims that I presented don't have any evidence of being any less true than the idea that the human avatar can move at MFTL+ speed to stack the zombies in the trash can, so there's no reason to prioritize any of them, and this occurrence should just be dismissed as what it is, a strange occurrence that's too ambiguous to reliably use as evidence for ranking the player.

Additionally, even if the human avatar does have a valid MFTL+ speed feat, it's an inconsistency. The player shouldn't actually be that fast, or else the game makes hardly any sense. It's clear that most of the zombies don't have super speed, or they at least never use it if they do have it, but any zombie surely ends up killing the player as soon as they get in the house. If the human avatar is MFTL+, then they would never get killed by any of the zombies that slowly walk unless those zombies and subsequently every character is scaled to the MFTL+ speed of the human avatar, which shouldn't happen. The same logic applies to the player from above. They can scroll the screen to view the zombies that got stacked to a galaxy, but doing so is just interacting with a function of that one screen, and more consistently, the slower action on the lawn is considered as a challenge for them.

I was thinking in this being a supportive evidence for MFTL+ or Intergalatic Range for some machines

 

[Ednaxel2]

Is it fine to edit profiles on the basis of making them look nicer? like having abilities, range, intelligence and stamina in bold

 

[Ednaxel2]

Also we should add gatling/mega gatling pea to Repeater's profile and remove it from Peashooters

 

[koopa3144]

Is it fine to edit profiles on the basis of making them look nicer? like having abilities, range, intelligence and stamina in bold

Yeah I think so.

 

[Dragonite007]

Also we should add gatling/mega gatling pea to Repeater's profile and remove it from Peashooters

We also has the Mega Gatling Pea

 

[Ednaxel2]

We also has the Mega Gatling Pea

His almanac states this: "I used to be an upgrade," says Mega Gatling Pea with uncharacteristic shyness. "Now I'm my own plant, with my own ambitions, dreams and gym club memberships!"

I don't see the point in making separate keys or profiles either, he deals the same damage a Repeater who deals the same damage as Peashooter (all 20) some just shoot more peas than others

 

[Ednaxel2]

The only thing that should be affected are the "Notable Attacks/Techniques:" segmentation

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Trough... the comics do show that the colectable suns are a representation of actual sunlight... so maybe the verse had always a light speed feat in the form of the suns

Do you mean that they catch literal rays of light? I haven't thoroughly looked at the comics.

If you mean those collectible objects that look like tiny versions of the Sun that slowly fall from the sky or get produced by certain plants such as Sunflowers, then no, it wasn't a speed of light feat, because those objects don't have the same physics as literal rays of light. They are light balls that are somewhat solid and are used for directly energizing plants.

If you mean something like, a cloud in the sky moved to reveal the Sun, and a character was able to intercept the light before it hit the ground, which they were able to do because of non-physical interaction, then yes, it was a speed of light feat.

I was thinking in this being a supportive evidence for MFTL+ or Intergalatic Range for some machines

I suppose that could work, but what justification do you have for scaling the best machines to this? Also, what information would this be supporting? Perhaps the existence of a machine that could manipulate the whole universe, which has yet to be ranked on the VS Battles Wiki? I saw an image earlier in this thread that might be of relevance in this case.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I looks like I lost a lot of things today