Planetary KE calcs

[M3X_2.0]

Now that I look further upon this, ye, it becomes pretty iffy to figure out if there's a proper point to show where all the mass leaves within that timeframe since it's a manga.

To be clear tho, the Frieza feat mass spreading was like, uber fast. Like, one freakin' second.

Why are you lying again, @StrymULTRA ? KLOL does not agree with KE being used here..

 

[KLOL506]

Why are you lying again, @StrymULTRA ? KLOL does not agree with KE being used here..

FTFY

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why are you lying again, @StrymULTRA ? KLOL does not agree with JE being used here..

“Becomes pretty iffy” isn’t an outright disagreement.....

 

[M3X_2.0]

FTFY

thanks

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Either way, I’m still sticking by my earlier stance.

The fragments being from different positions in the landmass doesn’t automatically mean that they didn’t travel the same speed and distance.

 

[KLOL506]

In any case I remember Chariot saying that he knows of a better method to calc this so I think I'll wait for that instead and reject the Deoxys KE feat for now.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

In any case I remember Chariot saying that he knows of a better method to calc this so I think I'll wait for that instead and reject the Deoxys KE feat for now.

I am too curious about what his method is and wouldn’t mind waiting to see what he has in mind.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Called Chariot

 

[KLOL506]

Called Chariot

But he already said that on the Pokemon thread LOL

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean to calc the feat...

 

[KLOL506]

I mean to calc the feat...

Yeah, he'll do it eventually, just give him time is all.

 

[Chariot190]

Why assume the planet to be 2.6 times smaller tho?

Maybe he's assuming that's how big the planet was post wipe? given how a bunch of its mass was ejected. Though at that point, simply getting the mass ejected (eyeballing it, it looks like a good solid 30% of the planet was launched in the big panel) and applying violent frag would get a better result I think, at the very least, it should end up around 5-C.

Alternatively, you could just get the KE off a single large piece (thus preventing the issue of whether or not all the pieces were the same speed or went the same distance) near the edge of the launch in the bust panel, of course it'd be thousands of times lower than the 5-A calc, but thousands of times lower would unironically still be planet level to some degree given the 5-A calc was ******* with ninatons, literally two magnitudes above zetta.

 

[KLOL506]

Maybe he's assuming that's how big the planet was post wipe?

Nah, that's got nothing to do with the planet size, just the mass, and even then the mass number should have remained unchanged since we're not using the curvature method for anything other than to just figure out distance.

 

[KLOL506]

Maybe he's assuming that's how big the planet was post wipe? given how a bunch of its mass was ejected. Though at that point, simply getting the mass ejected (eyeballing it, it looks like a good solid 30% of the planet was launched in the big panel) and applying violent frag would get a better result I think, at the very least, it should end up around 5-C.

Alternatively, you could just get the KE off a single large piece (thus preventing the issue of whether or not all the pieces were the same speed or went the same distance) near the edge of the launch in the bust panel, of course it'd be thousands of times lower than the 5-A calc, but thousands of times lower would unironically still be planet level to some degree given the 5-A calc was ******* with ninatons, literally two magnitudes above zetta.

Except, there's no large piece left, the entire crust's been reduced to bits.

Though honestly I doubt if it's just the crust and not the entire planet, the last scan only shows the circle and the planetoid thingy behind it is too vague to be assumed as the remnants of Earth. The visuals are simply too jacked up

 

[Chariot190]

Well regardless, one could always find the KE of a single large piece of debris, that way we avoid the issue of speed/distance being different for all the pieces. Would still yield a good result.
Or we could just apply v.frag to like a solid 30% or however much was shaved off of the earth's mass.

And what? There's plenty of large pieces of debris left. There's at least like 30 country sized pieces of debris in the previous panel being ejected at high speeds.

and the planetoid thingy behind it is too vage to be assumed as the remnants of Earth. The visuals are simply too jacked up

It's something, the only thing it could possibly be is the earth. If it doesnt look 100% like earth or is kinda ******, i'd assume that's because the planet was just peeled like an orange. If it was a full planet bust, we'd see the blackness of space, not a planet looking object the debris are floating around.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's something, the only thing it could possibly be is the earth. If it doesnt look 100% like earth or is kinda ******, i'd assume that's because the planet was just peeled like an orange. If it was a full planet bust, we'd see the blackness of space, not a planet looking object the debris are floating around.

The moon would also still be a thing you know, a celestial body close in the planets proximity.

 

[KLOL506]

Kukui makes a good point.

Honestly the entire notion of wiping out a planet only to eject its crust is overall, very, very iffy to me. Plus if only the Earth's crust was ejected the remainder of Earth would be a hellish landscape with immense amounts of the mantle oozing out everywhere. I'm pretty sure even a mangaka would keep that in mind as it's not very hard to visualise.

 

[Chariot190]

The moon would also still be a thing you know, a celestial body close in the planets proximity.

The moon isnt close, it's over 380000km away on average, hell, arguing it's the moon is also arguing that the debris crossed 380000km mind you. We went over this, it's not the moon, assuming it as such is ridiculous for more than just that.

Plus if only the Earth's crust was ejected the remainder of Earth would be a hellish landscape with immense amounts of the mantle oozing out everywhere.

And if it was the moon it'd be a moon with lunar craters and everything one would think of if it was a moon. But it isnt, it's a blank celestial object with nothing on it.

At the end of the day, with all our options laid out, our options are the moon (clearly not the moon), another planet (literally impossible) or the now razed earth (lacks the hellish landscape, but it's the most logical conclusion if it isnt the moon or the impossibility of another planet).
You'd assume it'd have a ****** up molten landscape but you never know, the fact the object lacks any surface at all really, implies it's the earth, just without the extreme detail.

Regardless, I did a rough calc of a single debris getting ejected and got like 41 zettatons using the 30 second lowend timeframe.

 

[KLOL506]

Regardless, I did a rough calc of a single debris getting ejected and got like 41 zettatons using the 30 second lowend timeframe.

WHAT THE HECK

Low 5-B+ for just a single debris?

 

[Chariot190]

WHAT THE HECK

Low 5-B+ for just a single debris?

Yeah. It's a pretty rough calc, given I just woke up and haven't even had time for breakfast yet, but idk, that's what the calculators gave me.
So more or less.

Chariot190/sandbox5

vsbattles.fandom.com

There could be a few minor issues given it's still rough.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The moon isnt close, it's over 380000km away on average, hell, arguing it's the moon is also arguing that the debris crossed 380000km mind you. We went over this, it's not the moon, assuming it as such is ridiculous for more than just that.

Actually your wrong, we didnt. This is my first time even bringing this point up and actually having it get noticed. So no.

And you know what I mean by "close" dude. The moon is still a celestial body near earth, so its very reasonable to suggest thats the moon at the bottom panel. Arguing semeantics like "its over 380000km away" doesnt negate that.

Also we dont need to argue the debris spread that far since its simply the moon being shown in the distance in the panel. And before you argue otherwise, remember, this is the same exact manga that has absolutely no issues showing multiple nebulae point blank in the distance as the meteor passes by them in space. Distances FAR FAR far bigger than the distance between the moon and the planet.

So this would be a very acceptable assertion.

And if it was the moon it'd be a moon with lunar craters and everything one would think of if it was a moon. But it isnt, it's a blank celestial object with nothing on it.

More semantics. The moon would be, in this instance, in the distance in the panel. Not close up. So there would be 0 need to show lunar craters or other moon details.

In addition, the art in this manga isnt the gold standard of showing details like that always. The earth for instance barely has any details to show landmass like you'd see otherwise. Doesnt mean it isnt there. This is the same.

 

[Antvasima]

Have you reached any conclusions here yet?

 

[Chariot190]

Actually your wrong, we didnt. This is my first time even bringing this point up and actually having it get noticed. So no.

Not with you, but we, as in this discussion, has gone over it.

And you know what I mean by "close" dude. The moon is still a celestial body near earth, so its very reasonable to suggest thats the moon at the bottom panel. Arguing semeantics like "its over 380000km away" doesnt negate that.

So not close then? You're arguing the debris traveled dozens and dozens of times further then we see and they all just so happened to conglomerate around the moon that's clearly not the moon. It actually does negate it, we arent going to say the debris all ended up traveling hundreds of thousands of kilometers and all ended up hovering around the moon that's clearly not the moon, instead of it being around the now surfaceless earth. It being over 380000k does negate it because the debris didnt travel that far.

Also we dont need to argue the debris spread that far since its simply the moon being shown in the distance in the panel.

Angsizing exists, I don't even think those debris are 100km away from the moon, Given it's close enough to where only like 5% of the moon is in view and the moon is already much smaller then a planet meaning it's even closer then it would be if it was the earth. It's not in the distance, it's right on top of the moon just about, assuming it is the moon, which it isnt.

And before you argue otherwise, remember, this is the same exact manga that has absolutely no issues showing multiple nebulae point blank in the distance as the meteor passes by them in space. Distances FAR FAR far bigger than the distance between the moon and the planet.

Yes, there's nebulae in the background of a meteor that's currently in space. And no, not point blank in that instance, nebulae are ******* ridiculously large, those nebulae are hundreds of light years away at minimum in that panel (probably thousands to tens of thousands). Dude, I'm going to be blunt here, you don't seem to know how angsizing and depth works. How do nebulae lightsyears and lightyears away effect debris being like 100km away from your "moon" effect each other? They don't.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes, there's nebulae in the background of a meteor that's currently in space. And no, not point blank in that instance, nebulae are ******* ridiculously large, those nebulae are hundreds of light years away at minimum in that panel.

Thanks for admitting and pretty much proving my point.

Nebulae are, as you said, hundreds of light years away at a minimum. The meteor would be no where remotely close to being near them, yet the manga has no problem showing 3 or so nebulae in the distance in the panel.

So why would the moon being shown in the distance of the planet's debris be out of left field? You know, a distance thats laughably so much smaller?

 

[KLOL506]

Not with you, but we, as in this discussion, has gone over it.



So not close then? You're arguing the debris traveled dozens and dozens of times further then we see and they all just so happened to conglomerate around the moon that's clearly not the moon. It actually does negate it, we arent going to say the debris all ended up traveling hundreds of thousands of kilometers and all ended up hovering around the moon that's clearly not the moon, instead of it being around the now surfaceless earth. It being over 380000k does negate it because the debris didnt travel that far.



Angsizing exists, I don't even think those debris are 100km away from the moon, Given it's close enough to where only like 5% of the moon is in view and the moon is already much smaller then a planet meaning it's even closer then it would be if it was the earth. It's not in the distance, it's right on top of the moon just about, assuming it is the moon, which it isnt.



Yes, there's nebulae in the background of a meteor that's currently in space. And no, not point blank in that instance, nebulae are ******* ridiculously large, those nebulae are hundreds of light years away at minimum in that panel (probably thousands to tens of thousands). Dude, I'm going to be blunt here, you don't seem to know how angsizing and depth works. How do nebulae lightsyears and lightyears away effect debris being like 100km away from your "moon" effect each other? They don't.

Even then in the shot where the planetoid and debris are shown we don't know if that side is the one where lunar craters were made by the debris, it's still not fully visible enough to make proper distinctions.

 

[Chariot190]

Thanks for admitting and pretty much proving my point.

Dude, no offense but you really don't know how this works do you?

Nebulae are, as you said, hundreds of light years away at a minimum. The meteor would be no where remotely close to being near them, yet the manga has no problem showing 3 or so nebulae in the distance in the panel.

Yes, in the distance, hundreds if not thousands of lightyears away. Do you actually not understand how depth and angsizing works? You are quite literally arguing nothing here.

So why would the moon being shown in the distance of the planet's debris be out of left field? You know, a distance thats laughably so much smaller?

Holy shit, you can't be serious. Using simple math and depth we can figure out EXACTLY how far away the debris are from the "moon" and even how far the meteor is away from the nebulae. Spoiler warning, it's going to be right on top of the moon and thousands of lightyears away at minimum. Do you actually not know what angsizing is?

Even then in the shot where the planetoid and debris are shown we don't know if that side is the one where lunar craters were made by the debris, it's still not fully visible enough to make proper distinctions.

The moon is covered with craters, the fact the moon is so zoomed in, assuming we're saying it's the moon, we'd see dozens of smaller craters even if we don't see the big well known ones.

It's not the moon, occam's razer literally exists for this reason.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I agree thats is very arguable to say the least but at least theres more of a logical basis for it being the moon in the bottom panel instead of the planets remains, since:

For one thing, the manga drives the point home that its supposed to be a planet bust, meaning its very possible that its the moon while the planets busted

After that, comes the fact that the moon is a celestial body close in earths proxmity like it is IRL, so it would make very much sense for it to be shown in the distance beyond the planet debris

And adding to that, the art in this manga is proven to be able to show something out from a distance thats ridiculously big. 3 Nebulaes that are ridiculously far away from GMD can be shown just fine. So showing the moon, the planets celestial body, in the distance from the debris is very possible.

 

[Chariot190]

For one thing, the manga drives the point home that its supposed to be a planet bust, meaning its very possible that its the moon while the planets busted

It doesnt even do that. It says the planet will be destroyed, that doesn't inherently mean complete total annihilation, simply ******* it up beyond repair would be good enough, in fact, go get the japanese scan, I wanna check it. It can't be the moon because it's quite literally NOT what we see.

After that, comes the fact that the moon is a celestial body close in earths proxmity like it is IRL, so it would make very much sense for it to be shown in the distance beyond the planet debris

Continuously saying close proximity isn't going to change the fact you're arguing that all the earth's mass just so happened to reach the moon, 380000km away. It's close in relation to any other celestial object, but that's only relative, it's still super far away.

And adding to that, the art in this manga is proven to be able to show something out from a distance thats ridiculously big. 3 Nebulaes that are ridiculously far away from GMD can be shown just fine. So showing the moon, the planets celestial body, in the distance from the debris is very possible.

Im honestly baffled right now, you do realize what youre saying is a literal nonargument and doesnt do anything to help your case at all? You're effectively arguing "you can see the sun in the sky despite it being big so the moon being super close to the debris is ok".
Again, do you not know how depth and angsizing work? Don't answer that, I'll go get the distances for each right now, give me ten minutes.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes, in the distance, hundreds if not thousands of lightyears away. Do you actually not understand how depth and angsizing works? You are quite literally arguing nothing here.

I dont care about angizing isnt a point here. Unless you want to say GMD was "right on top" of those 3 nebulae's despite clearly being no where remotely close to them? If not, then you have no basis to say the planet debris would be right on top of the moon.

Holy shit, you can't be serious. Using simple math and depth we can figure out EXACTLY how far away the debris are from the "moon" and even how far the meteor is away from the nebulae. Spoiler warning, it's going to be right on top of the moon and thousands of lightyears away at minimum. Do you actually not know what angsizing is?

See above.

The moon is covered with craters, the fact the moon is so zoomed in, assuming we're saying it's the moon, we'd see dozens of smaller craters even if we don't see the big well known ones.

No we wouldnt, the panel would need to be much more zoomed in closer to the moon in order to even see the craters. As in showing the entire moon and having it zoomed in. And again, nice job dodging my point about the planet's art. I'll bring it up again.

The top 3 panels here in this scan show the earth as the meteor closes in. The planet is very zoomed in to display the meteor impact, yet we dont see art displaying landmass details to depict earth's countries/continents. Or in Pokemons' case, regions.

Are we going to say this isnt the planet because they arent displayed? If you say no, then the same point would apply to it being the moon without needing to show craters.

It's not the moon, occam's razer literally exists for this reason.

Actually the Occams Razor would go against you since the only basis to it being the planet in the first place is because we see part of a celestial body in the panel, one thats never actually confirmed to the planet in the first place. We're assuming it is, and going off that assumption, your trying to apply the occams razor. The moon orbits the earth, and is in the planets proximity, making the occams razor just as likely to apply to it being the moon.

Not to mention, narratively, the manga contradicts that being the planet since the meteor is supposed to be busting it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Continuously saying close proximity isn't going to change the fact you're arguing that all the earth's mass just so happened to reach the moon,

And once again your making up points to fit your narrative. Im not arguing this at all. Im not arguing the debris moved to the moon.

Im arguing the moon being shown in the distance from where the debris stopped spreading post planet destruction.

Im honestly baffled right now, you do realize what youre saying is a literal nonargument and doesnt do anything to help your case at all? You're effectively arguing "you can see the sun in the sky despite it being big so the moon being super close to the debris is ok".
Again, do you not know how depth and angsizing work? Don't answer that, I'll go get the distances for each right now, give me ten minutes.

I really dont care how "baffled" you are since you seem to be interpreting my argument incorrectly based on what I said right above.

 

[Antvasima]

Everybody please calm down. I know that we are all under a lot of real life stress right now, but let's not take it out on each other.

 

[Chariot190]

I dont care about angizing isnt a point here. Unless you want to say GMD was "right on top" of those 3 nebulae's despite clearly being no where remotely close to them? If not, then you have no basis to say the planet debris would be right on top of the moon.

Except it wasn't. It quite literally wasn't anywhere near those nebulae. It was lightyears and lightyears away from them. Like what in the actual **** are you arguing?

No we wouldnt, the panel would need to be much more zoomed in closer to the moon in order to even see the craters. As in showing the entire moon and having it zoomed in. And again, nice job dodging my point about the planet's art. I'll bring it up again.

Except no? You're literally just saying stuff like "it would have to be this in order for this to happen or be seen", when no, that wouldn't be the case, at all. "Showing the entire moon and having it zoomed in", is a contradictory statement. Dodging your point? I honestly have no clue what you're arguing because your points make no sense or arent even real points.

The top 3 panels here in this scan show the earth as the meteor closes in. The planet is very zoomed in to display the meteor impact, yet we dont see art displaying landmass details to depict earth's countries/continents. Or in Pokemons' case, regions.

You're literally wrong.

we see landmasses in the zoomed in earth shots, your scan just happens to be awful and the grays arent properly pronounced, you can see them better in the other scan though. Regardless, literally wrong, we do see landmasses in the earth shot.

Are we going to say this isnt the planet because they arent displayed? If you say no, then the same point would apply to it being the moon without needing to show craters.

I'm going to say pay attention to the panels you're actually arguing.

Actually the Occams Razor would go against you since the only basis to it being the planet in the first place is because we see part of a celestial body in the panel, one thats never actually confirmed to the planet in the first place. We're assuming it is, and going off that assumption, your trying to apply the occams razor. The moon orbits the earth, and is in the planets proximity, making the occams razor just as likely to apply to it being the moon.

Yes, a celestial object, stripped of any and all detail, with debris gravitating around it. You're assuming that the debris were launched 380000km and all just so happened to be hovering around the moon that's drawn at the same angle as the earth previously was mind you, despite not being drawn as the moon at all, opposed to it being the earth stripped of its surface. Occam's razer is the what requires the least amount of assumptions here.

Not to mention, narratively, the manga contradicts that being the planet since the meteor is supposed to be busting it.

And yet it doesnt. Pretty straightforward.

And once again your making up points to fit your narrative. Im not arguing this at all. Im not arguing the debris moved to the moon.

You are though, because if that IS THE MOON in that panel, then all the debris moved almost 380000km, as the debris in that panel are less then 400km away from the moon.

Im arguing the moon being shown in the distance from where the debris stopped spreading post planet destruction.

Except that "distance" is only like 100km (turns out a little less than 400, albeit the that's from the pov, not from the debris, which are even closer to it), so 379900km.

I really dont care how "baffled" you are since you seem to be interpreting my argument incorrectly based on what I said right above.

It's not interpreting what you're saying wrong though, it's the fact what you're saying is a complete nonargument.

Anyway, lucky for me, KLOL already did some scaling. Using that as a base.

Object in pixels = 519px (Moon chunk).

Screen height = 316px

Object size = 911.5823053589484281057

911.5823053589484281057*316/(519*2*tan(70deg/2)) = 396.331721534km from moon.

So yes, you're arguing that the debris ended up not even 400km away from the moon, of the 380000km, except it's even less because that's the distance of the moon from the POV, in which the debris can be seen like half that distance if not less closer to the moon.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I've literally just returned from a irl mess and I'm seeing a mess here too.

What's exactly happening?

If I can say something, I'd try to make the complete version of Chariot's calc, aka the one of the debris that moved from the planet

 

[KLOL506]

Except it wasn't. It quite literally wasn't anywhere near those nebulae. It was lightyears and lightyears away from them. Like what in the actual **** are you arguing?



Except no? You're literally just saying stuff like "it would have to be this in order for this to happen or be seen", when no, that wouldn't be the case, at all. "Showing the entire moon and having it zoomed in", is a contradictory statement. Dodging your point? I honestly have no clue what you're arguing because your points make no sense or arent even real points.




You're literally wrong.

we see landmasses in the zoomed in earth shots, your scan just happens to be awful and the grays arent properly pronounced, you can see them better in the other scan though. Regardless, literally wrong, we do see landmasses in the earth shot.



I'm going to say pay attention to the panels you're actually arguing.



Yes, a celestial object, stripped of any and all detail, with debris gravitating around it. You're assuming that the debris were launched 380000km and all just so happened to be hovering around the moon that's drawn at the same angle as the earth previously was mind you, despite not being drawn as the moon at all, opposed to it being the earth stripped of its surface. Occam's razer is the what requires the least amount of assumptions here.



And yet it doesnt. Pretty straightforward.



You are though, because if that IS THE MOON in that panel, then all the debris moved almost 380000km, as the debris in that panel are less then 400km away from the moon.



Except that "distance" is only like 100km (turns out a little less than 400, albeit the that's from the pov, not from the debris, which are even closer to it), so 379900km.



It's not interpreting what you're saying wrong though, it's the fact what you're saying is a complete nonargument.

Anyway, lucky for me, KLOL already did some scaling. Using that as a base.

Object in pixels = 519px (Moon chunk).

Screen height = 316px

Object size = 911.5823053589484281057

911.5823053589484281057*316/(519*2*tan(70deg/2)) = 396.331721534km from moon.

So yes, you're arguing that the debris ended up not even 400km away from the moon, of the 380000km, except it's even less because that's the distance of the moon from the POV, in which the debris can be seen like half that distance if not less closer to the moon.

Actually the distance here should be figured out using angsizing, not by drawing a line like this. The curvature part is fine but after that you need good old angsizing. Just got reminded of it by M3X. Too bad I suck at angsizing so good luck with that.

Also the scan ain't mine, it's Strym's.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The curvature part is fine but after that you need good old angsizing.

I don't think is possible, the debris are of an unknown size there

 

[Chariot190]

figured out using angsizing, not by drawing a line like this.

It was though? The only thing I used Strym's scaling for was to figure out the size of the moon chunk off his scaling of what would have been the moon's total diameter. Which got the part we see to be 911km.
The rest is basic angsizing. The panel height (of the actual panel), was 316px, the moon width of what we see is 519px, the size of the chunk I got based on his scaling.

The result is, from the moon, the POV is a little under 400km away, meaning, the debris, which are even closer to the moon then the POV, are less then 400km. How much? Hard to say, but it's less then 400km. which is my point, for it to be the moon they'd of had to travel over 379000km, as the POV and debris are extremely close to it.

 

[KLOL506]

It was though? The only thing I used Strym's scaling for was to figure out the size of the moon chunk off his scaling of what would have been the moon's total diameter. Which got the part we see to be 911km.
The rest is basic angsizing. The panel height (of the actual panel), was 316px, the moon width of what we see is 519px, the size of the chunk I got based on his scaling.

Oh, you did? Sorry, I didn't see the tan/deg words.

Oh, but you forgot to use the curvature formula for the moon since it's not fully visible.

 

[Chariot190]

If I can say something, I'd try to make the complete version of Chariot's calc, aka the one of the debris that moved from the planet

You could, hell, you'd probably get like a yottaton or few if you did that for every piece we see get ejected, but that's a lot of effort, though if you do go through with that then kudos to you.

 

[Chariot190]

Oh, but you forgot to use the curvature formula for the moon since it's not fully visible.

You're right, but that would only change the result by like, 2% if memory serves. It's negligible.
My point is, at the absolute minimum, no matter how you look at it, the debris are at best, only a few hundred km away from it. So if that is the moon, the debris would have traveled over 379000km to get there.

 

[M3X_2.0]

So if that is the moon, the debris would have traveled over 379000km to get there.

Not really. Gravity is still something in space. The debris could still hit the moon, but it wouldn't be a result of the meteor impact, but gravity's