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Pizza Tower Fixes & Revisions (PnA additions and AP/Speed Upgrades)

Eden_Warlock99

She/Her
10,189
3,747
Basically currently the bosses scale to Peppino's base 9-A stats when they should scale to his higher stages of Mach Run and Body Slam, which would put them at 0.21 Tons of TNT or Small Building level+,
There also some missing abilities

Pepperman
Body Control
(Can transform his stem into a beret whenever he immerses himself in his artwork)
Subjective Reality (Capable of materializing drawings to assail his opponent at a slower speed)
Minor Reality Warping (The paintings in his arena spring to life, imbued with movement and accompanied by haunting laughter upon entering his second phase)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)

The Vigilante
Removal of "Regeneration (High-Low; Can regenerate eyes and teeth that fly out while Peppino is beating him)" since the "bones/eyes falling out" thing is obviously just a bizarre effect created from Peppino's Toon Force. It doesn't make sense to treat it as a regeneration feat, especially when Vigilante and Fake Peppino, who have been established as boneless, also have bones pop out of them when Peppino hurts them.
Vibration Manipulation (His bazooka is capable of generating shockwaves)
Immunity to Bone Manipulation (Lacks a skeletal system)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)
Also we should remove the 8-C thing from Vigi's profile since him being so would create circular scaling (Vigi>Pizzaface>>>Knight Peppino>>>Base Peppino>Vigi)

The Noise
Regeneration
(Mid-Low; Regrew a missing tooth in a short amount of time)
Vehicular Mastery (Two of his main attacks involve a skateboard, and a pogo stick)
Flight (His Jetpack provides him with means to take to the sky and onto his Noise-faced hot air balloon)
Teleportation (Poofs into view as soon as his clone explodes)
Non-Physical Interaction (His minigun should share similar qualities to The Vigilante and Peppino's guns)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)

Fake Peppino
Restricted Flight (The Super Jump sends Fake Peppino flying straight upwards until he hits an obstacle)
Surface Scaling (Can climb on a wall)
Bodily Weaponry (Stabs Peppino with his tongue once he grabs him)
Weapon Creation (Can create eight spiky bouncing cheeseballs with his Super Taunts)
Size Manipulation & Large Size (Up to Type 1. Can enlarge parts of his body and take on an enormous, monstrous form)
Minor Reality Warping (Morphs the mascots' face into a grotesque grin and the text on the wall into a jumble of letters upon entering his second phase)
Immunity to Bone Manipulation (Lacks a skeletal system and should be similar to Peppino Clones, who melt upon death)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)
Also we should upgrade Monster Fake Peppino to 8-C since he deals twice the previous amount of damage and Peppino's only option against him is to flee, and Fake Peppino's 9-A stats are only x1.15 away from Baseline 8-C

Pizzaface
We should upgrade Pizzaface to fully 8-C since he can "Can one-shot Knight Peppino and Boxed Peppino, who can instantly knock out Stupid Rats that are impervious to Peppino's base attacks" which is more than enough to upscale him to 8-C since again the 9-A stas are only x1.15 away from Baseline 8-C
Dimensional Travel
(Follows Peppino into the eyeball dimensions)
Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with Ghost Peppino)
Invulnerability Negation (Capable of harming Peppino with Pope's Blessing)
Resistance to Cold Temperatures (Can traverse through the level Refrigerator-Refrigerador-Freezerator, which is cold enough to freeze working fires in their place)
Resistance to Fire Manipulation (Unfazed by Peppino's Satan's Choice)

Pizzahead
Curse Manipulation
, Duplication, Mind Manipulation (Placed a curse on John, turning him into a multitude of giant, hive-minded pillars)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)

Here's how the profiles would look like after this (Also added some references and went in depth in the NA&T)
Also this upgrades Peppino's Transformations are also gonna be 8-C

And last but not least, everyone in Pizza Tower gets upgraded to Sub-Relativistic due to this accepted calc,
That's it.
 
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)

There isn't "resistance" to social influencing, iirc.
 
Most here seems good, though I do think Noise's regen should be specified to an unknown period of time, since there's no solid timeframe for the regen until the time he appears in the final fight.

For FakePep, his restricted flight looks to be just a case of very good acrobatics, as he doesn't actually 'fly' so to speak, rather he just jumps at a high velocity thanks to having good control over his movement/momentum of his jumps (which also falls under acrobatics).
Restricted flight - A form of flight time-limited or restricted in the ability to maneuver freely (for example, levitation).

Neutral on social influencing resistance for now.
 
I had made a calc that would upgrade Rage-Powered Peppino a bit further (not much; just from 0.575 tons to 0.908 tons), but at the same time, I had qualms with how the wiki handled Peppino's AP (namely the parts where it lacked sources).

I dunno about scaling any of the bosses to higher stages of Mach Run and such myself; their stages make it impossible to attain Mach 2, let alone allow me to test it as I've personally witnessed with Pepperman. If it can't be tested, why scale the bosses to the thing you can't test? I can agree with the rest, though.

Also, you know, they can just... Get harmed by a Grab Dash. I P-Ranked Pepperman, so I would know.
 
There are actually some sources for Peppino's Mach Run and Grab Dash being able to destroy multiple blocks, but it wasn't added on the page for some reason. You can see them in the OP of this CRT
I dunno about scaling any of the bosses to higher stages of Mach Run and such myself; their stages make it impossible to attain Mach 2, let alone allow me to test it as I've personally witnessed with Pepperman. If it can't be tested, why scale the bosses to the thing you can't test? I can agree with the rest, though.
You can harm the bosses with the stage 2 Mach Run, it's just a little tricky to do so as you've mentioned
Also, you know, they can just... Get harmed by a Grab Dash. I P-Ranked Pepperman, so I would know.
Well it looks like Peppino just outright punches the bosses instead of grabbing them with his Grab Dash; Peppino's base AP scaling to his Mach Run when?
 
There are actually some sources for Peppino's Mach Run and Grab Dash being able to destroy multiple blocks, but it wasn't added on the page for some reason. You can see them in the OP of this CRT
I looked in the video provided and... That's not 4 blocks; that's more like three-and-a-half. That still firmly isn't 440.9 MJ, though; that's actually 222.576 MJ. I checked using the brick block calc as a base.
 
I looked in the video provided and... That's not 4 blocks; that's more like three-and-a-half. That still firmly isn't 440.9 MJ, though; that's actually 222.576 MJ. I checked using the brick block calc as a base.
Oh, that's a little odd; should probably get that changed then to the correct value. But there's also the entrance to the secret room on World 4, which might give similar results to what we currently have at the moment if you use the Grab Dash on the marble blocks behind the metal block. EDIT: Peppino's Mach Run in that last clip actually destroys ~24 marble blocks, which would be about 0.36 Tons of TNT and surprisingly well into Building level? Not sure if that feat would even work though, and this edit is getting a little off-topic, so...
 
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I dunno about scaling any of the bosses to higher stages of Mach Run and such myself; their stages make it impossible to attain Mach 2, let alone allow me to test it as I've personally witnessed with Pepperman. If it can't be tested, why scale the bosses to the thing you can't test? I can agree with the rest, though.
The bosses would scale to the higher stages of the Mach Run just by virtue of being able to significantly harm Peppino, who's dura is equal to said higher stages,
Plus, them scaling to the higher stages of Mach Run would explain why they can still somewhat harm enraged Peppino, which would be impossible had they not
(Vigilante also kinda just no-sells Mach Runs and Bodyslams, so that's also something)
 
Then again, wouldn't this make Peppino's base attacks 9-A+, since his normal attacks can still damage the bosses that can withstand Mach Run? Don't think he should directly scale to Mach 2-3 though, so maybe just heavily downscale to it?
 
Oh, that's a little odd; should probably get that changed then to the correct value. But there's also the entrance to the secret room on World 4, which might give similar results to what we currently have at the moment if you use the Grab Dash on the marble blocks behind the metal block. EDIT: Peppino's Mach Run in that last clip actually destroys ~24 marble blocks, which would be about 0.36 Tons of TNT and surprisingly well into Building level? Not sure if that feat would even work though, and this edit is getting a little off-topic, so...
It wouldn't.

It's best to calculate throwing an enemy through the long wall in Ancient Cheese
 
Then again, wouldn't this make Peppino's base attacks 9-A+, since his normal attacks can still damage the bosses that can withstand Mach Run? Don't think he should directly scale to Mach 2-3 though, so maybe just heavily downscale to it?
It's definitely weird... It's basically like this somehow.:

Mach 1 and Grab Dash: Stuns enemies (grab dash only kills when you decide to throw someone), breaks marble and crude aluminum blocks, one-shots Pillar John (every attack Peppino dishes out can one-shot Pillar John)
Mach 2 and Mach 3: Kills enemies, breaks steel blocks, can't defeat Stupid Rats, damages bosses
Mach 1: Only stuns bosses
Grab Dash: Damages bosses???

Although being fair, Mach 1 is mostly the start-up of Mach Run.
 
It's definitely weird... It's basically like this somehow.:

Mach 1 and Grab Dash: Stuns enemies (grab dash only kills when you decide to throw someone), breaks marble and crude aluminum blocks, one-shots Pillar John (every attack Peppino dishes out can one-shot Pillar John)
Mach 2 and Mach 3: Kills enemies, breaks steel blocks, can't defeat Stupid Rats, damages bosses
Mach 1: Only stuns bosses
Grab Dash: Damages bosses???

Although being fair, Mach 1 is mostly the start-up of Mach Run.
i can't help with this cause my OBS barely functions, but in Ancient Cheese there's a wall with a greek paining on it. You can run through it with any mach run but the thing is, you can grab an enemy and yeet them through the entire wall in one punch in that place. I think someone needs good footage of that and a calc should be made since the feat is pretty damn good.
 
i can't help with this cause my OBS barely functions, but in Ancient Cheese there's a wall with a greek paining on it. You can run through it with any mach run but the thing is, you can grab an enemy and yeet them through the entire wall in one punch in that place. I think someone needs good footage of that and a calc should be made since the feat is pretty damn good.
 
I'm a little confused why this thread exists when we already have a thread going for P&A additions. I'll say my piece anyways.


Basically currently the bosses scale to Peppino's base 9-A stats when they should scale to his higher stages of Mach Run and Body Slam, which would put them at 0.21 Tons of TNT or Small Building level+,
There also some missing abilities

Pepperman
Body Control
(Can transform his stem into a beret whenever he immerses himself in his artwork)
Subjective Reality (Capable of materializing drawings to assail his opponent at a slower speed)
Minor Reality Warping (The paintings in his arena spring to life, imbued with movement and accompanied by haunting laughter upon entering his second phase)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)
His drawings are currently used to give him the Summoning ability. I'm iffy on Subjective Reality, but it was something we considered giving him so I guess it's fine.
The Vigilante
Removal of "Regeneration (High-Low; Can regenerate eyes and teeth that fly out while Peppino is beating him)" since the "bones/eyes falling out" thing is obviously just a bizarre effect created from Peppino's Toon Force. It doesn't make sense to treat it as a regeneration feat, especially when Vigilante and Fake Peppino, who have been established as boneless, also have bones pop out of them when Peppino hurts them.
Vibration Manipulation (His bazooka is capable of generating shockwaves)
Immunity to Bone Manipulation (Lacks a skeletal system)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)
Also we should remove the 8-C thing from Vigi's profile since him being so would create circular scaling (Vigi>Pizzaface>>>Knight Peppino>>>Base Peppino>Vigi)
He already has Vibration Manipulation, but the other things are new. I do agree that since Vigilante lacks bones, him having Regeneration due to regenerating bones does not make sense. Bones pop out any time Peppino beats something, regardless of what it is.
I would like to add Hammerspace to this since he brings things out of nowhere much like The Vigilante does.

In the other P&A thread, we were inconclusive on giving him Teleportation. Some argued he is just hiding in the basket of his balloon while others say he is teleporting. What do you think of the basket idea?

Also, your argument for Vehicular Mastery is currently being used for Weapon Mastery. This is mostly because he uses them as weapons.
Enlarging parts of his body wouldn't give Size Manipulation, it would give Elasticity. Peppino has Elasticity for a similar reason, so he should not get Size Manipulation.

In the other thread, we mentioned the possibility of Resistance to Attack Reflection. This was because it seemed his grab attack could not be parried. What do you think of that?
The abilities look fine.
Pizzahead
Curse Manipulation
, Duplication, Mind Manipulation (Placed a curse on John, turning him into a multitude of giant, hive-minded pillars)
Resistance to Social Influencing (Isn't intimidated by Peppino's Mach Run, which terrifies enemies Peppino can't even harm)

Here's how the profiles would look like after this (Also added some references and went in depth in the NA&T)
Also this upgrades Peppino's Transformations are also gonna be 8-C
I still want to know what that "official source" is since there's no reference there, but assuming it's true, the abilities seem fine.
And last but not least, everyone in Pizza Tower gets upgraded to Sub-Relativistic due to this accepted calc,
That's it.
Wouldn't that be Reaction Speed, not Combat Speed?
 
I'm a little confused why this thread exists when we already have a thread going for P&A additions. I'll say my piece anyways.
AP/Speed Upgrades and Reworks
In the other P&A thread, we were inconclusive on giving him Teleportation. Some argued he is just hiding in the basket of his balloon while others say he is teleporting. What do you think of the basket idea?
I think Qrow makes a good argument for the latter
If he did then he would have dropped down from one of the holes like the Noise-minis, but he sort of just- poofs into view as soon as the dummy explodes instead of falling down from a hole or just somewhere off-screen. Teleportation is a fair assumption IMO
Enlarging parts of his body wouldn't give Size Manipulation, it would give Elasticity. Peppino has Elasticity for a similar reason, so he should not get Size Manipulation.
Size Manip would still remain due to Monster Peppino tho
In the other thread, we mentioned the possibility of Resistance to Attack Reflection. This was because it seemed his grab attack could not be parried. What do you think of that?
Ehh. Parries work on all his other attacks, it's probably just that you can't counter a grab
I still want to know what that "official source" is since there's no reference there, but assuming it's true, the abilities seem fine.
It was in the official Pizza Tower Discord, but due to some stuff and it being too big, the mods decided to nuke all the discussion threads, and since no one tried to screenshot the WoG, we kinda can only go with the wiki as evidence
Wouldn't that be Reaction Speed, not Combat Speed?
It's a punch, that's almost always Combat Speed
 
I'm late to this, and I think the changes proposed are all reasonable. I'm just wondering based on the discussion in the thread; why can't there be such a thing as resistance to social influencing? It makes sense to me that a character could resist some or all of the various aspects encompassed by social influencing like intimidation, flattery, persuasion, and so on.
 
I'm late to this, and I think the changes proposed are all reasonable. I'm just wondering based on the discussion in the thread; why can't there be such a thing as resistance to social influencing? It makes sense to me that a character could resist some or all of the various aspects encompassed by social influencing like intimidation, flattery, persuasion, and so on.
It was mentioned in this thread already that Resistance to Social Influencing already exists on VS Battles. The main issue is whether or not Peppino's Mach Run qualifies as Social Influencing. Several people are iffy on that, so they're iffy on the resistance bit as well.
 
It was mentioned in this thread already that Resistance to Social Influencing already exists on VS Battles. The main issue is whether or not Peppino's Mach Run qualifies as Social Influencing. Several people are iffy on that, so they're iffy on the resistance bit as well.
Fair enough
 
The main issue is whether or not Peppino's Mach Run qualifies as Social Influencing. Several people are iffy on that, so they're iffy on the resistance bit as well.
Well to quote the page on Fear Manip, "It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing." And considering that his Mach Run's able to terrify enemies that are straight-up intangible to a base Peppino, I think his Mach Run's SI would qualify as, well, SI; Still personally a little skeptical on SI resistance, though.
i can't help with this cause my OBS barely functions, but in Ancient Cheese there's a wall with a greek paining on it. You can run through it with any mach run but the thing is, you can grab an enemy and yeet them through the entire wall in one punch in that place. I think someone needs good footage of that and a calc should be made since the feat is pretty damn good.
Forgot to bring this up in the thread, but I calc'd that feat and some other ones a few days ago and got some p nice mid-end 9-A to low-end 8-C results (the 8-B feat hasn't been accepted yet, so just try to ignore it until it does ig).
 
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Here's how the profiles would look like after this (Also added some references and went in depth in the NA&T)
You have Lifting Strength listed as Unknown for the following bosses: Pepperman, The Noise, and Pizza Face. Aside from Pizza Face, I have some things to say about these. The Noise could be listed as Average Human due to holding objects like a pogo stick, bombs, and a minigun. That would use similar justification for your Vigilante LS.

Pepperman's LS is currently listed as Class 5 due to an assumption that he should be comparable to Peppino. What do you think of this?
 
Well to quote the page on Fear Manip, "It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing." And considering that his Mach Run's able to terrify enemies that are straight-up intangible to a base Peppino, I think his Mach Run's SI would qualify as, well, SI; Still personally a little skeptical on SI resistance, though.

Forgot to bring this up in the thread, but I calc'd that feat and some other ones a few days ago and got some p nice mid-end 9-A to low-end 8-C results (the 8-B feat hasn't been accepted yet, so just try to ignore it until it does ig).
That is ultra based, though ngl the 8-B feat is kinda wack since we never see it happen properly.
 
Yeah, that and the fact the 8-B feat's far above every other one in the verse makes it extremely unlikely it'll get put on the profile.

Only thing that might be an issue I think is using 59 pixels for Peppino's height, which may be why it seems like such an outlier. Using the 1.49915254 cm/pixel (118 pixel height from your earlier calcs) makes it seem to be more in line with the other accepted calcs:

Hole Deepness: 3744 px * 1.49915254 cm/pixel = 5612.82710976 cm

Hole Diameter/Width: 128 px * 1.49915254 cm/pixel = 191.89152512 cm

Treating the Hole as a Cylindrical One: 5612.82710976 cm * π * (191.89152512 cm/2)^2 = 162324149.28274 cc

Treating the Hole as a Rectangular One: 5612.82710976 cm * 191.89152512 cm * 191.89152512 cm = 206677525.93228 cc

Cylindrical Results

154.95 * 162324149.28274 cc = 25152126931.4 joules, or 6.0115026123327 Tons of TNT (High 8-C)

Rectangular Results
154.95 * 206677525.93228 cc = 32024682643.2 joules, or 7.6540828489484 Tons of TNT (High 8-C)

The math is fine as far as I can tell, as with your other blogs recently. What was the reason for Peppino's pixel height being halved from 118 pixels? If Peppino has been 59 and not 118, there are gonna be some cool upgrades in recalcs :cool:
 
What was the reason for Peppino's pixel height being halved from 118 pixels? If Peppino has been 59 and not 118, there are gonna be some cool upgrades in recalcs :cool:
All of the older Pizza Tower calcs I made had an in-game pixel to actual pixel ratio of 1:2, which I fixed in my latest calcs and is likely why the cm to pixel ratio looks seemingly higher in that one calc.
 
All of the older Pizza Tower calcs I made had an in-game pixel to actual pixel ratio of 1:2, which I fixed in my latest calcs and is likely why the cm to pixel ratio looks seemingly higher in that one calc.
I see. I still assume it would have a ripple effect for the other calcs, needing to change the use of 118 pixels to the 59?
 
I see. I still assume it would have a ripple effect for the other calcs, needing to change the use of 118 pixels to the 59?
Probably not (while there were twice the amount of pixels per image, the cm per px ratio was halved as a result, meaning the result wouldn't change if we re-calc'd them), but just for fun, let's re-calc a metal block using the proper 1:1 pixel ratio:

176.9 cm (height I used for the calc) / 59 px = 2.99830508 cm per px

Metal Block Height: 64 px * 2.99830508 cm = 191.891525 cm

191.891525^3 = 7065898.31 cc

Using 70% Hollowness: 7065898.31 - ((70 / 100) * 7065898.31) = 2119769.493 cc

2119769.493 * 208 = 440912055 joules, or the same result I got from my older calc.
 
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