• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Piccolo Moon Feat Downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
If the moon was vaporized wouldn't there be visible distortions from the heat? How do we know it wasn't turned to dust and launched off-screen?
 
No visible debris doesn't mean it wasn't launched too far to be seen. In fact, this seems to be the case a whole lot in real life. It also seems relatively common in fiction too.
 
  • 1. That would increase the calc by an order of magnitude and we have no evidence of that.
  • 2. If debris went in every direction, why wouldn't at least some land on Earth? A meteor over 25 metres in diameter can somewhat survive burning up. Historically, other meteors have caused damage by exploding.
  • 3. Even if they were pulverised (leaving no massive debris) and launched in every direction, we'd see them over Earth, as much smaller and less dense dust clouds have been seen from much greater distances by the naked eye.
  • 4. Vaporising planets completely isn't uncommon in fiction, especially not Dragon Ball.
  • 5. The moon was intact when Piccolo's blast first hit.
So vaporisation is much more likely.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
How do we know it wasn't turned to dust and launched off-screen?
Click to expand...
The more assumptions you have to make, the less reliable the answer, that's occams razor for you

Simply assuming it was turned to dust is less assumptive than assuming it was turned to dust and also assuming that it was launched off screen when we don't see that happening at all
 
> 3. Even if they were pulverised (leaving no massive debris) and launched in every direction, we'd see them over Earth, as much smaller and less dense dust clouds have been seen from much greater distances by the naked eye.

Even if that were the case, would Toriyama's art style even show dust clouds in space? For all we know they could be there but just not be visible because Toriyama decided not to focus on it.
 
Why would he? It's possible, but it's even more likely that he just didn't draw anything because he didn't care and making the moon disappear entirely is easier.
 
Why are we still discussing this? It's officially confirmed that Piccolo just created an illusion of the moon being destroyed.
 
That was never once mentioned in this thread, aside from Frieza destroying Namek's core (which he did, its yield is irrelevant and had nothing to do with the argument) or a joke.
 
Dragomer said:
People still act like 'core busting' is a thing ? destroying the core of a planete doesn't make it explode unless your attack was like star level.
Click to expand...
Or Multi-Solar System level if you're Toei Frieza
 
TataHakai said:
Since toriyama confirmed it was an illusion all DBZ Saiyan saga characters will be 6-B, Vegeta's 5-B is now an outlier and Frieza is a core buster so Cell is a hypberole obviously
Click to expand...

...actually tbh I did some research on how much influence Akira had in the making of the game and I will definitely be making a crt for the moon destruction in due time..sorry not sorry
 
Geekdom did a video on it. The whole thing doesn't really hold up. The moon was also the reason Gohan transformed in the first place, and the moon is gone in the Saiyan Arc. It's clearly an illogical retcon.
 
Code: 
But indeed a retcon like the Broly movie which made a retcon of Planet Vegeta right?
But tbh could Piccole jsut make the moon seem like it vanished? That's literally what we got told. The moon didn't need to be destroyed. The light just had to stopped been shown upon Gohan. That's what piccolo did indeed
 
Told by a likely non-canon game (I believe he also has his tail at various points, though that may be inbetween the King Piccolo and Tournament arcs). Toriyama also helped with heroes and designed 21, so that doesn't make it canon. Again, the moon is gone when Vegeta is there. If it's an illusion, why wouldn't Gohan still transform, and why would it be permanently gone?

Edit: It was after the original Dragon Ball, but it was also a makeshift tail created by Bulma.

Also, watch Geekdom's video. He explains it's clearly referring to the anime, where Piccolo destroys an illusionary moon created by Goku's space pod.
 
I'll just say what I said earlier that I still think the huge explosion Akira Toriyama represented in his manga by showing the white light and loud sound effects across the panels would more accurately result in something getting blown to bits, and that's how all the other pieces of media (anime, games, etc, even DBK now) display the feat and other planet busting feats like this one. So this according to me is more probable or least assumptive.

If it was the wrong representation of his feat, then in the span of sooooo many years, surely Akira Toriyama must have come around and told somebody to correct it in some form of media or expressed his views. But there doesn't exist a single piece of media where it shows the moon getting vaporized.

Having said that, according to point #2 the calc would not be usable either way, in which case we'll have to go with the low end / safer option. I wonder if the old calc made more sense?

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/piccolo-moon-busts-dragon-ball.18403/
 
The Moon was cleary destroyed and gone in DBZ Kakarot so Moon wasn't even there anymore so that doesn't amount upto illusions because Piccolo in no point have demonstrated a ability to perform such a illusion and it was not there against Goku vs Vegeta hence he even had to make a power ball if not he wouldn't have done that,its just a statement getting retconned by multiple evidences which still holds up
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
The vaporization method makes 0 sense as AKM Sama said above. If all he did was vaporize the moon from sheer heat; it wouldn't be making a loud bang that could be heard across the world. Nor would it generate a bright light that covers the sky. Plus, the vaporized gas would be cold down back into solid form fast unless they overheated it.

Plus, as others have said; Ki attacks regularly nuke stuff as opposed to just simply heat up areas. Especially if we're talking about large objects such as planets. Also, stop derailing the thread with that non-canon video game. Unless you want Piccolo to have an added genjutsu that would enable him to hax stomp all of Naruto given it effected Vegeta when he wasn't even on Earth and King Kai. Still, he clearly blew it up and expanded it. Anyway, the calc is actually lowballed, unless we want to use option 2 for this calc. There were explained problems with the vaporization method explained in the blog.
 
We dont know if loud bang was produced in manga or not,it was produced in anime but anime has shown debris flying so itts not vaporization but as for manga we dont see any single debris,dust cloud or anything at all so I dont believe that Moon was blown to pieces rather it was destroyed completely and I believe bright light comes from Moon being destroyed right when ki blasts explodes
 
There would still be smoke/steam/mist if it was vaporized; plus there would have to be enough force to disperse the GBE. Also, if the Ki blast exploded that big, why wouldn't the moon do it with it?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
The vaporization method makes 0 sense as AKM Sama said above. If all he did was vaporize the moon from sheer heat; it wouldn't be making a loud bang that could be heard across the world. Nor would it generate a bright light that covers the sky. Plus, the vaporized gas would be cold down back into solid form fast unless they overheated it.
Plus, as others have said; Ki attacks regularly nuke stuff as opposed to just simply heat up areas. Especially if we're talking about large objects such as planets. Also, stop derailing the thread with that non-canon video game. Unless you want Piccolo to have an added genjutsu that would enable him to hax stomp all of Naruto given it effected Vegeta when he wasn't even on Earth and King Kai. Still, he clearly blew it up and expanded it. Anyway, the calc is actually lowballed, unless we want to use option 2 for this calc. There were explained problems with the vaporization method explained in the blog.
Click to expand...
1.) What loud bang? There was no mention of a loud bang that was "heard around the world", and it would do exactly that, it would generate a bright light that covers the sky because that's what it looks like when enough heat is generated that it instantly vaporizes rock, your third point is simply a case of fiction not always following science; i mean by that logic the earth's tides should've instantly begun to mess up due to the moon disappearing

2. Ki attacks regularly nuking stuff doesn't mean you can apply it to everything, that's an association fallacy, this is the same as me saying "Onoki's molecular attack is chakra based attack, Chidori is also chakra based so it also destroys at a molecular level"

If you read the manga scene of the attack all we see is a bright light and the moon is gone, there's literally nothing there to even suggest it expanded or blew up like Planet vegeta did, also for anyone saying Piccolo destroying the moon is retconned, we're not about to take a single video game that Toriyama had minimal input in over the Anime, Manga and multiple databooks
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There would still be smoke/steam/mist if it was vaporized; plus there would have to be enough force to disperse the GBE. Also, if the Ki blast exploded that big, why wouldn't the moon do it with it?
Click to expand...
Maybe there might be but its not visible but well if it was vaporized where would smoke come from? Since Moon isn't there anymore,sorry for such a stupid question
 
When Master Roshi did it, the whole world seemed to have noticed a loud noise and the audience was blinded by the flashing light of the blast. They didn't notice that he aimed at the moon until he told them and they initially though the blast was close to the battle field. Implying the blast reach from the Moon to Earth. Piccolo's feat is pratically the same, we see the light sounding him as well, implying the light reached from the moon to Earth.

Also, false equvelency. Ki Attacks are always potrayed as nukes unless the blast objects smaller than the blast. A small projectile blasting a large object has always been a nuke.

Any yes, I knot the game was a joke, but I'm saying we should avoid bringing it up at all.
 
TataHakai said:
2. Ki attacks regularly nuking stuff doesn't mean you can apply it to everything, that's an association fallacy, this is the same as me saying "Onoki's molecular attack is chakra based attack, Chidori is also chakra based so it also destroys at a molecular level"
Click to expand...
It absolutely is not. It's nowhere near extreme a claim as the bolded.
 
Extremity of the example doesn't negate the fact that it's the same fallacy being commited in the argument
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Just_Butchering
Saiyan/Namek Saga Scaling
Replies
20
Views
2K
Just_Butchering
Just_Butchering
Tom4t0GG789
DRAGON BALL SPEED UPGRADE :O
2
Replies
66
Views
5K
Tom4t0GG789
Tom4t0GG789
Ednaxel2
  • Locked
Dragon Ball AP, sad downgrade (Raditz/Saiyan/Namek Saga Tiers only)
4 5 6
Replies
229
Views
16K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Tom4t0GG789
GOTENKS IS WEAK O.o ---> AP Buu Saga Review
Replies
33
Views
2K
Tyri456
Tyri456
some additions to Dragon Ball Toei
2
Replies
57
Views
4K
Ednaxel2
Ednaxel2
Back
Top