Piccolo Moon Feat Downgrade

[ByAsura]

Probably the latter.

 

[Stefano4444]

I always thought the method of the falling rock was too fishy to be honest, yes i agree with the downgrade.

But i also agree that Piccolo's Ki Blast timeframe should be much shorter, anything from 1 second to 5 seconds should be reasonable.

Anything less would be a bit of a stretch, anything more wouldn't make sense in that context.


Or even better, why we don't use the same method used to calculate Hotaru travelling to Pluto?

We can do with Piccolo's original jap quote (or with the official english version).

 

[Stefano4444]

Why is Super Saiyan considered a x40 boost instead of a x50 boost?

I guess because we rather use the Kaioken multipliers than the SSj multipliers, as it is more safe, but i do think the 50x could be applied.

After all we already assume that SSj Goku > 100% Freeza, and Freeza 50% (who should had half the strength of a 100% Freeza) is already as powerful as (if a little more than) Kaioken 20x Goku.

 

[ByAsura]

Spoken word timeframes aren't used any more because of how inconsistent they can be.

 

[Stefano4444]

Spoken word timeframes aren't used any more because of how inconsistent they can be.

Then what you propose? Simply assume a minimum timeframe that everyone (or most) can agree on?

 

[ByAsura]

5 seconds. Everyone seems to agree with that.

 

[Stefano4444]

Then 5 seconds it is meaning 0,26% lightspeed for Early DBZ characters.

 

[ByAsura]

I'd appreciate some staff imput on the 50x Super Saiyan (only SS1) and 5 seconds beam.

If the 5 seconds timeframe isn't accepted, Frieza's supernova can be used.

 

[My_area]

5 seconds should be ok but lets wait for more input on the speed

 

[GojiBoyForever]

50x should be accepted for sure for the Namek saga. It obviously rose in the arcs past Namek.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

50x should be accepted for sure for the Namek saga. It obviously rose in the arcs past Namek.

I wouldn't say it's obvious.

 

[Eminiteable]

Regardless of if it rose or not it can still be assumed to be at least x50 in arcs past namek.

 

[Elizhaa]

If the calculations have this many flaws, I have no pronlems with the proposal in the OP. If the 50x time multiplier has many uncontradicted Statements, then I have no problem with it. The 40x multiplier, I think it is still safer.

 

[Stefano4444]

If the calculations have this many flaws, I have no pronlems with the proposal is the OP. If the 50x time multiplier has many uncontradicted Statements, then I have no problem with it. The 40x multiplier, I think it is still safer.

What about the speed issue?

 

[Elizhaa]

I think the 5 seconds timeframe is reasonable.

 

[ByAsura]

Thanks for the input. I'll make the scaling chain tomorrow, in that case.

 

[QrowBarr]

Agreeing with Elizhaa.

 

[ByAsura]

Reaching the moon in 5 seconds is 25.6444053 SoL

Piccolo (Pre-Training): Relativistic

Chiaotzu: At least Relativistic

Yajirobe: At least Relativistic

Sorbet: At least Relativistic

Raditz: At least Relativistic (Dodged Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon at the last second, which should be faster than the blast he used to destroy the moon)

Saibame: At least Relativistic

Krilli: At least Relativistic

Tien Shinha: At least Relativistic

Nappa: At least Relativistic

Goku: At least Relativistic, up to FTL with Kaio-ken (Well over 1.02577621 SoL with Kaio-ken x4)

Vegeta: At least Relativistic+ (Well over 0.512888105 SoL; superior to Kaioken x2 Goku)

Vegeta (Namek Saga): At least Relativistic+

Recoome: At least Relativistic+

Burter: At least Relativistic+

Jeice: At least Relativistic+

From this point onwards, characters (even in base) are faster than Kaioken x4 Goku. Firstly, Goku could move faster than Recoome, Jeice and Burter could see, the slowest of whom is faster than Vegeta after his power level increased to nearly 30,000 (x4 Goku has a PL of 32,000) from a second Zenkai. Secondly, it's said on two occasions that Goku has surpassed Saiyan limitations, in the second case Vegeta even says he's in a different league from when they fought on Earth, to the point of believing he was a Super Saiya.

Captain Ginyu: FTL

Frieza (First/Second Form): FTL (Frieza's second form is fast enough to blitz people faster than his First Form)

Piccolo (Nail Fusion): FTL

Frieza (Third Form): FTL (Frieza's Third Form is way faster than an unweighted Piccolo)

Vegeta (4th Zenaki): FTL (According to everyone, Final Form Frieza is far more powerful than his 3rd Form, yet Vegeta can see his movements and intercept his Death Beam)

Goku (Namek Saga): FTL, Faster with Kaio-ken (Well over 4.10310484 SoL with Kaio-ken x4)

I put Namek Saga Kaio-ken x4 Goku here because he has a specific rating, not necessarily because he's faster than everyone listed. Everyone mentioned below is faster. I'm also just going to list the people how have new feats from now on, since I'd probably cover all of Dragon Ball.

Goku is consistently described as far more powerful than before, he's portrayed as way faster, and blocked all of Frieza's Death Beams. Vegeta, despite knowing his previous power, once again believed he was a Super Saiyan.

Goku (Post-Zenkai): FTL (Well over 4.10310484 SoL)

Frieza (Final Form 100%): Massively FTL (Well over 164.124194x SoL)

Semi-Perfect Cell: At least Massively FTL (>>>>Well over 164.124194x SoL)

Even at half power, Perfected Super Saiyan Goku was way stronger than Vegeta's best.

Goku (Perfected Super Saiyan): At least Massively FTL (>>>>Well over 328.248388x SoL)

Perfect Cell (Post-Zenkai): At least Massively FTL

Super Saiyan 2 Goku's full energy could only fill half of Buu's tank, which represents his full power. SS2 Gohan, despite being weakened, was able to fight Dabura, who Goku said was as powerful as Cell, and later confirmed he was even stronger than that.

Buu (First form): At least Massively FTL (>>>>Well over 656.496776x SoL)

At his highest, Buu had the power of Gohan (Potential Unleashed), Goten, Trunks and Piccolo combined. Gohan is faster than normal Buu, Piccolo is faster than Android Saga Super Saiyans, and the wiki lists Goten and Trunks as higher as well as faster than Frieza Saga Goku.

Buuhan: Massively FTL+ (>>>>Well over 1485.32394 SoL)

 

[Eminiteable]

Looks good.

 

[My_area]

List looks good but how did you get atleast Relativistic and how did you get MFTL+ Buuhan? Though MFTL DBZ is cool

 

[ByAsura]

Chiaotzu has a significantly higher power level than Piccolo, who is over half way to Rel+, and Raditz absolutely blitzed Goku. Buuhan is well over twice as fast as Fat Buu, given that he absorbed Potential Unleashed Gohan.

 

[My_area]

Oh I see now

 

[Read_this_post]

Seems great good to me. But I wonder. Would gokus base form at the end of the cell saga be mftl? In which case, should his ssj form be mftl+?

 

[Stefano4444]

Seems great good to me. But I wonder. Would gokus base form at the end of the cell saga be mftl? In which case, should his ssj form be mftl+?

If you're referring to his Buu Saga Base Form be stronger than his Namek Saga counterpart, unfortunately most people don't think there is enough evidence that prove that.

Although i do think that having everybody from 100% Frieza to Buutenks to be just Massively FTL is a bit of a downplay, not with the scaling we have.

100% Frieza < King Cold < Mirai SSj Trunks < Android 17 < Android 16 = Imperfect Cell < Semi-Perfect Cell < SSj 2nd Grade Vegeta < Full Power SSj Goku < Full Power Perfect Cell < Super Perfect Cell < SSj2 Gohan < SSj2 Goku = Majin Vegeta < Fat Buu < Super Buu < SSj3 Gotenks < Mystic Gohan < Buutenks

I think the scaling should be something like this:

From Android 17 to Semi-Perfect Cell, At least Massively FTL.

From SSj 2nd Grade Vegeta to Perfect Cell, At least Massively FTL, likely higher.

From Super Perfect Cell to SSj2 Gohan, Likely Massively FTL+ or just Massively FTL+.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Wouldn't Vegita'ss great ape form break into FTL?

 

[ByAsura]

Apparently his speed actually stays the same as base, while his power is multiplied by 10.

Edit: He says Vegeta's fast despite his size, but there's no indication his power increases in proportion to speed.

 

[ByAsura]

@Stefano 17 would need to be 6 times faster than Frieza to breech Massively FTL, and there's really no evidence of this, unless you want to claim the stomp chains reach that high.

SPC and Gohan have no evidence of reaching that high.

 

[Stefano4444]

Apparently his speed actually stays the same as base, while his power is multiplied by 10.

When such thing was stated in the series?

 

[ByAsura]

See the edit.

 

[Stefano4444]

@Stefano 17 would need to be 6 times faster to breech Massively FTL.

You mean Massively FTL+, since Android 17 should still be Massively FTL in virtue of be faster than 100% Frieza.

Even that, i only suggested to put him at At least Massively FTL, which is fair considering that you had Raditz at At least Relativistic just for be faster than Piccolo.

SPC and Gohan have no evidence of reaching that high. We don't use the guide book 100x statement.

I'm not using any guide book statement, only scaling.

And i don't see why it should be the case, since the gap of power from Namek to the Cell Games had increase so high that someone like 100% Frieza had become a complete fodder to most characters.

 

[ByAsura]

I meant breeching Massively FTL is Massively FTL+. At least suggests he could potentially break into the next tier, and there's not enough evidence for that.

That's far too speculative, though. The wiki uses low-balls, not stomp-chains. Suggesting they be X amount stronger than another character is adding numbers that aren't suggested in-verse.

 

[Stefano4444]

See the edit.

But that neither suggest that the Great Ape Form doesn't affect the speed of the user, and there is no other statements in the series that suggest such thing.

 

[ByAsura]

There's also nothing indicating it amps speed. Goku, even while heavily weakened, was able to see his movements.

 

[Stefano4444]

At least suggests he could potentially break into the next tier, and there's not enough evidence for that.

Actually the wiki say that the At least can be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.

It doesn't necessarely suggest that the character in question could break into the next tier, meaning it can be used in this case.

Since Android 17 (along with Android 18) was show to be faster than Vegeta SSj or Mirai Trunks SSj, who themselves are already faster than Massively FTL characters like 100% Frieza.

If not, then Imperfect Cell or Semi-Perfect Cell definitively have the necessary speed scaling to be At least Massively FTL.

 

[ByAsura]

Fine, but just Semi-Perfect.

 

[Stefano4444]

Ok

 

[The_Calaca]

So this turned out being an upgrade in speed. Nice.

The scaling seems good I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up before, since I've done similar scaling chains in the past as a kid.

 

[Slacjow]

So,you went from 0.25 SOL to 1485x SOL on pure multipliers without a single other feat?

This is probably the perfect definition of wank.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

There was this calc that calced Cell's Kamehameha,which was MFTL in the 650c ranges,so that can be used for Perfect Cell and after, tho it might be calc Staking as it used The Speed of Instant Transmission to calc the Time The Kamehameha went to space.

 

[ByAsura]

@Slacjow Calling things wank just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's actually wank.