• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Phoenix Avatars

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lol, no problem. Any future requests just stick 'em on my wall.
 
Will do.

@Ant Could you please reopen Jean's page so the new rendered image can be added?
 
That is fine, yes. Thank you. I will replace the image.
 
Okay, since Jean is pretty much done (only thing left is WPOTC), I'll move on to Cyclops (and the Phoenix Five) now.

Both 1/2 Phoenix Force Cyclops and Dark Phoenix Cyclops should scale above Scarlet Witch. 1/2 Cyclops was directly shown to be stronger than Scarlet Witch's full power.

And then Dark Phoenix Cyclops was not only fighting off what was essentially two Scarlet Witches, Wanda herself and Hope with Wanda's powers. He even considered himself endless and boundless compared to them.

Dark Phoenix Cyclops was also going to ascend into the White Hot Room, which as previously determined is 2-A, and the only reason he stopped is because Jean stopped him. That is also the only reason he lost against Hope and Wanda, because he willingly gave up the Phoenix due to Jean's urging.

And that's... basically the majority of Cyclops' feats. Dark Phoenix Cyclops is pretty consistently 2-A, and 1/2 Cyclops should be 2-A as well due to being superior to Scarlet Witch.

This 2-A 1/2 Cyclops would scale to Emma Frost, as she also had 1/2 of the Phoenix Force.

The other members of the Phoenix Five can be left as they are, buuuuuuut... at least going by how this character is, they should be 'At least 4-B, likely 2-A.' Magik even has her feat of threatening Dormammu, further supporting the 'likely 2-A' for the Phoenix Five members with 1/5 of the Phoenix Force.
 
I am mostly fine with a 2-A Phoenix Force Cyclops based on the above, but was the Scarlet Witch at House of M level power during that fight?
 
Yes, because immediately after her fight with Cyclops, she and Hope were able to erase the Phoenix Force, reversing the "no more mutants" event in the process. And with how Hope's powers work, she would have been using Wanda's powers to their HoM levels as well.
 
Okay. Are you fine with the other Phoenix Five members being given a 'likely 2-A' or 'possibly 2-A' due to having a finite percentage of the universal Phoenix Force (and in Magik's case, also threatening Dormammu)?
 
I am not sure if we can simply divide it by 5. Couldn't the strongest regular heroes cause problems for them?
 
In some cases, but in other cases Magik was terrifying Dormammu and Namor was contending with Scarlet Witch. Hence the possibly/likely, since other characters have a possibly for having a finite percentage of 2-A.
 
Dormammu also stated that Magik was ripping the Dark Dimension apart, which further supports her having a 'possibly/likely 2-A.'
 
Didn't Magic fight Dormammu in Limbo without the Phoenix? In any case, Phoenix Magic was still outclassed by Cyttorak, and Dormammu has systematically been treated as a severely depowered joke during the last 12 years or so.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Bump. While I agree to this, wouldn't this allow Nate Grey & Onslaught to be just 2-A ? Both have consistent feats of putting down Phoenix Avatar Level entities, Onslaught broke Cyttorak's Gem and Nate has been consistently compared to Dark Phoenix Jean more times than I care to recount.

Also I wanted to highlight some Malloy statements in-case any of them imply he scales to the Phoenix Avatars (either the Tier 2 ones or Tier 1 ones )... As his story actually takes place after Phoenix Five and after Secret Wars:
Click to expand...
Sorry to burst your bubble but the happenings of that comic is in different reality. It is not part of Earth 616. So, I don't think you can scale Mathew.
 
That story happened after Magik lost the Phoenix Force, and also had Cyclops damage Dormammu. Brian Bendis is extremely unreliable in terms of rational storytelling.

I suppose that Namor matching the Witch may be more reliable, but I would prefer more staff input first.
 
Well, like I said, I'd be fine leaving those with 1/5 of the Phoenix Force as they are now, but I wanted to give them the 'possibly 2-A' just to be more consistent with how other characters in the similar situation of having a finite portion of 2-A are rated.
 
So is the 'At least 4-B, possibly 2-A' fine?

Also, Emma Frost's profile needs to be unlocked, as she would need to be upgraded for when she had 1/2 of the Phoenix Force.
 
Is this okay?
Looks good but wouldn't it better if we had a more recent look for her?

LordTracer said:
Well, everyone I've asked has either not responded or didn't want to give input. 2-A Jean doesn't seem to be that big of a point of contention, and Kepekley agreed with her being 2-A.
Click to expand...
As for base Jean shouldn't she have also more abilities like the POink form which can absorb Psychic energy and boost her TK? She absrobed energy for Galactus and Phoenix, and in Poisons event she used it to reconstruct her body.
 
@Tracer

I suppose so.

I will unlock the page.
 
I unlocked them.

I also removed a few things from the Jean Grey page that we talked about earlier.
 
Everyone deemed that an outlier (even though it's White Phoenix Cyclops' only feat), so I took it out of the OP. High 1-B WPOTC Jean is going to be discussed after Hope though.
 
LordTracer said:
Everyone deemed that an outlier (even though it's White Phoenix Cyclops' only feat), so I took it out of the OP. High 1-B WPOTC Jean is going to be discussed after Hope though.
Click to expand...
Ok he should just have a 2A key or 2a possibly higher... Though IG Black Panther could damage Doom too.

Also I believe this image is better for the Phoenix speed justification.

Massively FTL+ in a host (Using the Phoenix Force, Jean Grey can fly across hyperspace and travel interstellar distances)
 
Okay so

- The complete Phoenix was deemed to be a bigger threat to the abstracts than IG thanos

- White Cyclops shoots God Doom then Doom just snaps his neck casually

- Meanwhile has a dozen page fight with Black Panther across multiple planes of existence

- Full Phoenix > IG Thanos > IG Panther > White Cyclops????

Seems pretty contradictory considering the white phoenixes are literally meant to be one with the full force and Panther only served as a distraction so the whole "IG's power varies" argument doesn't work.
 
@Tracer

The pages were already unlocked.
 
@Hykuu

As I keep saying, Marvel has completely irrational and inconsistent power scaling. It never ceases to confuse me when I try to straighten it out somewhat.

That said, the abstracts did not compare her raw power with that of IG Thanos. If I recall correctly, they mentioned her different personality traits as the main reason.
 
Okay, now that Hope Summers and Phoenix Force are properly updated, the last thing to address is High 1-B White Phoenix of the Crown.

Jean as WPOTC has the full power of the Phoenix Force, the guidebooks even state that she is fully merged with the Phoenix Force.

As such, the Phoenix Force destroying everything and allowing Oblivio to embrace creation would apply to WPOTC. In past threads that have tried to upgrade Phoenix, Matthew said this was clearly a High 1-B feats

And to bring this back, the Nexus of all Realities is explicitly stated to be the White Hot Room. And according to Hykuu, Matthew also agreed with High 1-B Nexus (and also High 1-B Chaos Wave).
 
1) I do not see any explicit text segments about this, and the guidebooks are recurrently unreliable.

2) That comment about destroying everything still applies to all of human potential, not specifically the Phoenix.

3) That seems to imply that it is the White Hot Room, yes.
 
1) The caption on WPOTC says the Phoenix is merged with her, and near the bottom of the second to last section on the left; "The Force ultimately realized Grey was its prime host and so left Emma to fully merge with her."

2) Right, but like we covered before, the Phoenix is the embodiment of that potential so it would still apply.

3) Yes, and another thing that's kinda notable is that the majority of the time Jean is in the White Hot Room; it's as WPOTC or the Phoenix itself.
 
1) Possibly, but this was likely the universal incarnation of the Phoenix Force.

2) I disagree. It is the embodiment of rebirth, and possibly life itself (although other sources claim that would rather be Eternity), but there are still sentient regular beings that exceed it, such as the Molecule Ma, and we cannot scale it from them either, any more than we can automatically scale the Infinity Gems to universal Eternity just because they are within him.

3) There are plenty of other avatars within the White Hot Room though. Grant Morrison established that.
 
2. It literally embodies the potential which surpasses The Abstracts, not encompass it, those are 2 different things which was made very blatant.

3. Yes, but the White Hot Room itself is the Heart of the Phoenix.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Hirotoswnn1x
Jean grey base form upgrade
Replies
6
Views
2K
Excellence616
Excellence616
RoTt35
  • Locked
[MCU vs FOX] Scarlet Witch vs Jean Grey (1-7-0)
Replies
26
Views
2K
RoTt35
RoTt35
LordTracer
  • Locked
Marvel Comics: Jean Grey Justification Addition
Replies
14
Views
2K
LordTracer
LordTracer
Hirotoswnn1x
Jean grey and nightmare up to High1-A !!!
Replies
12
Views
3K
BunBun
BunBun
RoTt35
  • Locked
[FOX's X-Men] General CRT²
Replies
7
Views
909
RoTt35
RoTt35
Back
Top