Phoenix Avatars

[LordTracer]

Wait, this is the next page.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That does not refer to her raw power though.

 

[LordTracer]

"That combination of elements... represents a legitimate challenge to the fabric of reality." That seems like her power. And the statement of "Knowing that to choose the Phoenix is to pave the road for a potentially cataclysmic advancement of the human species." that further supports the statements of Phoenix being the growth that evolves into Eternity and her rivaling the abstracts.

 

[Antvasima]

That is not the way that I think that it was intended. I think that it was about humanity itself somehow having infinite potential for growth within this story which was engineered by the abstract entities.

 

[LordTracer]

That... doesn't seem to be what's portrayed at all. With how much the story talks about causing the abstracts fear, the growth that evolves into Eternity, being able to control Eternity, evolving to become greater than the abstracts, it seems pretty clear cut that it wants the Phoenix to have abstract level power, which is consistent with things like Galactus revering her, Phoenix having the power of all creation, etc.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I read the entire story long ago, and think that I recall the overall thematics.

 

[LordTracer]

Well, with all due respect, your interpretation doesn't seem to fit with the numerous points in the story that put Jean at abstract level as the Phoenix. It being entirely engineered by the abstracts doesn't make much sense, as Phoenix, the embodiment of this growth, was able to cause the abstracts more fear than even Dormammu and IG Thanos, she is stated to be capable of controlling Eternity, and the growth that she embodies would surpass the abstracts.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, it wasn't referring to her raw power in relation to Thanos, and it was the potential of humanity that would supposedly eventually exceed the abstracts, or restart their cycle, or become Eternity. It was left a bit unclear.

 

[LordTracer]

Yes, and the Phoenix embodies that potential, as shown here and here, so it should scale to her AP.

 

[Hykuu]

The Phoenix, quite literally, embodies the evolution of life and lifeforce as a whole, hence why the Stranger wanted to inherit the Phoenix Force for himself, as he would have become the most powerful of the abstracts by that.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that seems too vague and speculative. The Stranger seemed to wish to somehow hijack the sum totality of human potential, but the Phoenix was not stated to be the embodiment of it in conjunction as far as I know.

 

[Hykuu]

Yes, and the Phoenix embodies that potential, as shown here and here, so it should scale to her AP.

.

 

[Antvasima]

I did not perceive the scans that way at all. Sorry.

 

[LordTracer]

Jean literally mentions controlling human evolution and the response she gets is; "The end... and the beginning. You control Eternity." She is explicitly stated to capable of controlling this stuff, it should very much be applicable to her AP.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not certain. Sorry. Is somebody else willing to read through "X-Men Forever" to verify?

 

[Hykuu]

k

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Hykuu]

All the scans come from X-Men Forever, Issue 6

Basically, the Stranger was planning to inherit the Force , control human evolution, which would lead to him controlling eternity and all the abstracts, as that's the potential for humanity, as according to Jean and Stranger, Many have wondered how the potential of a race would reach such high levels, and it's apparently because Phoenix quite literally embodies All Life , Death and Ressurectio ,and that the Abstracts blessed humanity to eventually become Eternity.

To sum the quotes up, basically

"To control human evolution, means to control... The end The beginning To control eternity."

This says it all, and the Stranger was trying to achieve this goal by using the Phoenix.

Also, apparently the Phoenix can grant "Omniversal Immortality", which sort of helps it being a multi abstract.

 

[LordTracer]

More examples from issue three showing that this absolutely applies to Jean as the Phoenix.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, The Stranger was not granted immortality by The Phoenix. He had it on his own, due to being a castoff aspect of the Living Tribunal.

Anyway, I suppose that the two of you may be correct about the Phoenix. I just prefer to get things more matter of fact spelled out before declaring that it embodies human potential.

 

[Antvasima]

In any case, you still need to modify the justifications for Jean's statistics according to my earlier comments.

 

[LordTracer]

Here we go.

Phoenix Force - Multiverse level+ (Claimed she had the power of all creation, and that it was a part of her. Galactus reveres her power, and Reed Richards stated that she rivaled Galactus. Comparable to the M'krann crystal, which is a threat to all existence. Embodies the growth that will surpass the abstracts and evolve into Eternity. Stated to be capable of controlling Eternity)

White Phoenix of the Crow - At least Multiverse level+ (Has the full power of the Phoenix Force. Feared by the abstracts. Can transcend into the White Hot Room, which is the heart of the Phoenix and core of creation)

 

[LordTracer]

Like I said earlier though, I still think WPOTC should be High 1-B as she isn't just a regular host of the Phoenix, and I know Hykuu could argue that as well.

 

[Hykuu]

The Nexus has a direct statement of encompassing all levels of creation, and Matthew agreed with High 1-B Nexus in my first thread in this wiki iirc, due to chaos wave scaling or something

 

[Antvasima]

I think that your new justifications seem fine, with the exception of that "Caused greater fear in the abstracts than Dormammu and The Infinity Gauntlet" happened before Grant Morrison's X-Men run with the WPotC, and it did not seem to refer to her raw power being automatically greater, which also wouldn't make any sense. Regular Phoenix was comparable to Galactus, who is weaker than the Infinity Gauntlet.

 

[LordTracer]

So should I just change that to something like; "Feared by the abstracts?"

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, we need more input from the most knowledgeable members before we can perform such a massive upgrade.

 

[LordTracer]

Well, everyone I've asked has either not responded or didn't want to give input. 2-A Jean doesn't seem to be that big of a point of contention, and Kepekley agreed with her being 2-A.

 

[LordTracer]

The only points of contention are:

- WPOTC being High 1-B

- 2-A Cyclops

- 2-A Hope Summers

- The Phoenix Five

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I will unlock Jean Grey (Marvel Comics) for you. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, finished. I also need the Phoenix Force page unlocked to change its first key to 'At least 2-A.'

 

[Hykuu]

Atleast Multiverse+ Level due to the Nexus being rated there (for now atleast)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the page.

 

[Antvasima]

This image needs to be better rendered. There are still white spots. It also needs to be cropped properly.

 

[LordTracer]

Is there somewhere where I can request for the image to be rendered?

 

[Antvasima]

Here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3320154

 

[LordTracer]

Thank you. The edits to Phoenix Force are finished, it can be closed now.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Is this okay?

 

[LordTracer]

The moment I make the post on the request page

Thank you so much.