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Persona General Revisions Thread Part 4 : 1-C (or higher) Upgrade + Cognition/Character ability additions.
- Thread starter Dr._whiteee
- Start date
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- persona (verse)
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If you take Igor's words and final battle with Nxy, atleast i can understand.
1- Minato normally doenst have that power, so he doenst scale
2- The attacks getting blocked and missing can be also understood as Minato's will and nature of the universe arcana than something related to is own power.
Atleast for me i see a possible 1-C scalling.
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Is NEP 2 accepted? Should we make another thread for it?
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It would be a separate key. Much like how Satanael is a separate key for Joker.
The scene is implied to be his power growing when hearing the cries of SEES. This is made clear when we see Makoto has gotten enough strength/will-power(these things tie in with one another) to damage Nyx. Makoto is by all means 1-C with the Universe Arcana for damaging, and outright negating attacks from Nyx.
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Litteraly the first words "the lack of absutely everything" meam i am not wrong lol, same for the precede or oppose, velvet litteraly doesn't have that, i mean it's litteraly that exist in some moment and is from a concept
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You’re saying things with no proof.
The Velvet Room is a nonexistent space, that isn’t observed by Cognition, a conceptual power. That’s the exact place the PTs go to when they’re erased, it’s not material, it’s abstract.
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Explaining why the Velvet Room is NEP Type 2, and not Type 1.
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Go on then summarise the argument
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I just did, on multiple occasions.
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Are you referring to this? If you want staff evaluations to reach a conclusion here, you need more elaborate explanations.
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Persona users get Nonexistent interaction for being able to exist and fight in the Velvet Room. The Velvet Room being a place that only subjectively appears to a person like a dream and therefore cannot actually exist, and is described abstractly by Elizabeth.
This is further elaborated on by the fact that Okada, one of the main heads of Atlus, straight up says Philemon (creator of the Velvet Room) and Igor (currently owns it), may even be fabricated existences.
This is lastly expanded upon by the fact that when the PTs are erased from the public’s Cognition (on a conceptual level), they end up in the Velvet Room.
This is further elaborated on by the fact that Okada, one of the main heads of Atlus, straight up says Philemon (creator of the Velvet Room) and Igor (currently owns it), may even be fabricated existences.
This is lastly expanded upon by the fact that when the PTs are erased from the public’s Cognition (on a conceptual level), they end up in the Velvet Room.
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Okay. I will ask some staff members to help out.
What do you think about this?
@SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura
What do you think about this?
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If you mean the OP itself, I have no option since I have never played a Persona game nor was ever interested enough to watch a playthrough of it. So I can't comment on anything.
If you mean the suggested power, then it looks fine to add.
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I’m proposing NEP Type 2.
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If its Type 2 then I can't weigh in with just what you gave me.
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This isn’t enough?
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Not for Type 2 in my view. At least not without full context on the last sentence.
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Alrighty, gimme a minute, gonna flesh this out as much as possible.
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I am the wrong person to ask about this NEP stuff. This entire thread is out of my element.
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The statement by okada doesn't work for me. You should also mention how the place is between dream and reality, mind and matter. It is not on the mental plane, it is not made of matter, and it isn't part of reality
The concept of jokers self(individuality) was taken away in PQ2 yet he still can fight . Lavenza, a velvet room attendant, can literally just appear in the real world but cannot even be perceived by anyone. They can't touch her, interact with her, or even hear her when she talks to Ren in the real world before he steps into the room. There's also the fact that the PT seem to have forgotten the existence of the velvet room in Persona 5 Strikers even though they went there and met lavenza and remember Yaldabaoth. I don't remember if lavenza stated she erased their memory but I doubt it, the velvet room makes you forget but the PT could resist it
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The link to the okada statement isn't working for meb
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I would appreciate it if this was a one-on-one, thanks.
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I'm in the same boat as DragonMaster, I do not know what qualifies as Non-Existent Physiology.
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(can you not always 100% trust the first staff you see)
Also, that conversation isn't over. Milly hasn't even expanded the context yet.
Also, that conversation isn't over. Milly hasn't even expanded the context yet.
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Seriously, like, this is a very expansive verse, if I have to explain why it’s NEP 2 for someone who doesn’t know Persona, I’ll need a lot of scans.
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Trusting the first staff member always? Cmon
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I recurrently only have the time to read the staff comments, and the staff have been given their positions in the first place because they were evaluated to be reliable in general, so I am dependent on and have to trust them.
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What is Cognition?
Cognition is the driving force of everything that exists within Persona. Composed of the unconscious and conscious thoughts, everyone possess their own cognitive world - their pheneron and perspective of reality. It has so much influence over reality, that reality is composed of it, and that the real world doesn’t exist - a subjective and overall meaningless term. Philemon, one-half of the Collective Unconscious, states that Cognition created space itself. It’s further elaborated here on why Cognition is accepted as Type 2 conceptual manipulation, as well as Type 4.
Why does this matter?
When one is erased from the Collective Unconscious (a mass of Cognition, the source of reality), their concept begins to fade from memory, and then further, erased from existence. Take note of the fact that when they are erased, the Phantom Thieves are within the Velvet Room, a space between the duality of dream and reality, mind and matter, and has no form, alluding the fact that it doesn’t exist. This is further contextualized by the fact that the mind, and the Velvet Room, are stated to be abstract by Elizabeth, a Velvet Attendant.
Okada alludes to the fact that because Igor, and the Velvet Room, is only accessible in a dream (that only has form based off the residents mental perceptions) - Igor (master of the Velvet Room), and Philemon (creator of the Velvet Room), are fabrications of the protagonist’s abstract mind, and may not exist at all.
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Broken scans
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It does better to say what scans are broken then just saving they're broken.
Milly, the first and third links to the scans on the first paragraph are broken. Toss them to me on Discord and I can Imgur them.
Milly, the first and third links to the scans on the first paragraph are broken. Toss them to me on Discord and I can Imgur them.
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I already fixed them.
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Have you more scan for the "their concept begin to fade away" ? Because for what you scan show they could just have been erased from reality and memory. And the rest still correspond more to NEP1 as actually you should not be able to access a NEP2 place through dream(and NEP1 still can be abstract), and same for being fabrication of mind even if not exist (since NEP2 can't even be imagined in first except if they want to be)
And the link for the thread of concept type 2 and 4 is not working
Zencha9
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it's already aceepted that Cognition erasure is concept erasure
Understanding (Megami Tensei)
The phenomenon of Understanding, also referred to as Observation or Cognition, refers to the a special ability inherent to the human race in Megami Tensei, which allows the masses to influence, shape and command reality itself based on their collective thoughts and beliefs, controlling the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Only responding to Qawsedf234's, by the way, I’m strictly keeping it one-on-one.
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Well if that was accepted with that then well seem like a conceptual erasure (tho i don't know if type 4 concept on type 2 scale work for NEP2)it's already aceepted that Cognition erasure is concept erasure
Understanding (Megami Tensei)
The phenomenon of Understanding, also referred to as Observation or Cognition, refers to the a special ability inherent to the human race in Megami Tensei, which allows the masses to influence, shape and command reality itself based on their collective thoughts and beliefs, controlling the...
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It’s both Type 2 & 4.
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