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Persona General Revisions Thread Part 2: Hax & Additions

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I can't believe I'm agreeing with Bob (jk), but he's right.

A name means nothing on its own. The simple likelihood that it can be hyperbole is enough to discredit it, because names are practically always used to sound cool, which typically involves exaggeration. If nothing contradicts or supports it, then as far as this case is concerned, then it can go either way. Thus, whether or not it's Absolute Zero is inconclusive. That's why further evidence is needed to support it.
 
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I mean, I've been over the exact same issue before in another verse, for it to qualify for Absolute Zero, it needs something (usually some statement) making it clear being the case, rather than semantics over the reasoning for why it could be named after that, as it's too unreliable to take it as that just from the sheer name.
 
i agree with all of this
about the Absolute Zero thing:
is the spell considered more powerfull than the other ice spells or not ? because this would help it's case more
 
Coldness doesn't work like that unless such lower-tiered moves were actually stated to be "that" close to AZ in the first place (And even then it would be an stretch, AZ requires an absolute halt on heat per definition), and don't bother bringing up semantics over how that could be the case out of the sheer name of the higher-tiered one, the problem is that there's absolutely nothing actually supporting it per the site's standards.
Let alone how the potency of an spell doesn't necessarily translate into it being "colder", as "strength" is quite unrelated by default.
Freezing more stuff also won't help either, stuff generally has freezing points way too above in temperature from AZ to get there and qualify as a supporting feat for that.
 
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Actually, just, to add onto why name alone isn't good enough

It would imply Bufudyne and stuff like Diamond dust would somehow be even higher than that

Which, it's one thing if there's a direct statement of being colder than absolute 0, but by itself, absolute 0 is absolute. You can't make atoms any more still than that and thus drain more heat. Maybe if you had some type of control over negative energy, which is something in quantum physics I don't really understand beyond the fact you need to shove negative mass into a wormhole to sustain it

But, at the end of the day, that's just inventing explainations where none are actually presented in the work, and thus, we shouldn't just assume something that's nonsensical.
 
ShrekAnakin said:
Also, this is related, but this is a possible counter to Acasual Persona characters https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j82VMafqFQBilev2o6TYga5uHi09b0R1utQJ98JauHg/edit

I want thoughts on this Doc, and am curious how you guys feel about it.
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This is a ridiculous attempt made by someone from the now-banned streak of old Giorno vs Joker threads to discredit Joker's abilities. The vast majority of it is just a bunch of strung-together arguments and 'evidence' made to sound relevant to the point they're making when it's obvious that said arguments are completely irrelevant, if not flat-out wrong.

For example, the point about Lavenza somehow being instrumental to the Phantom Thieves' return from existence erasure. The only thing Lavenza did was explain what happened, who Yaldabaoth was, and what to do next.

In fact, she did exactly what the Velvet Room has always been doing: point our protagonists in the right direction while never directly interfering themselves outside of issues irrelevant to their respective journeys (the Q series) until said protagonists' journeys are completed, even if they die (every game over past P2) or **** things up even worse (Tatsuya in Innocent Sin).

Somehow, whoever wrote that doc didn't pay any attention to what was and wasn't going on, and somehow assumed that since "Oh, Lavenza appeared and told them what to do next", she had somehow done something to assist them when that's completely out of character for the Velvet Room's residents.

Quite frankly, everything else on the doc is either irrelevant or, like the above Lavenza thing, nothing more than arguments made from a point of clear ignorance.
 
As I pointed out to Grath, it's resistance only for as long as Ren is the only one defying fate. However, Ren has repeatedly demonstrated that he has changed the predetermined fates of others just by talking to them. That's Fate Manipulation outright, not just a resistance, because why would Ren be resisting a fate that he is in no way involved with, or would not affect him?
 
It’s literally in the scans, he is actively changing someone else’s fate for them, and Maruki outright said he’d lose in a fight against the PTs even if he fought them again.
 
Yeah, I'm reasonably convinced of Fate Manip.

Apologies again for my lack of activity. I'll see if I can look over the rest of the information soon.
 
Solacis said:
A reality warper can make reality do something it wouldn't do naturally. The target of the reality warping is only on reality itself, and the effect is independent of the reality warp except for in the case of the reality warp directly manipulating the part of reality that is the target of the intended effect. Take for example, a reality warper can bring a fire into existence to incinerate someone, but the only things involved in that are the reality warper and the fire. If the target of the fire is burned, that's between the fire and the target. If the target isn't incinerated, then they resist Fire Manip, not necessarily Reality Warping.

The biggest reason why Persona resists both the effects and the Reality Warping itself is because there have been cases where different applications of Reality Warping affect them while others are resisted despite originating from the same source. Take for example, Takuto Maruki. We know for a fact that the Phantom Thieves by that point can resist his distortions just by being present within his Palace and not being affected by its distortions, but it is outright stated that Maruki can erase them from existence if he wanted, and he also displays the ability to rewrite laws in his Palace to prevent specific actions, which none of the PTs could resist. If it were a case of the PTs blanket resisting the Reality Warping itself, then either none of the applications of it should've affected them, or all of it should. This clearly isn't the case, however, which would imply that there are varying degrees of resistance to each specific application of Maruki's Reality Warping.

There is a "base level" resistance to Reality Warping in its entirety, however, as Morgana specifically states that the Phantom Thief outfits protect their wearers from the distortions themselves, which would refer to the reality warps.
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I suppose this makes sense to me? I was not familiar with the Maruki example due to still having yet to finish P5R and yes I know I'm taking way too long for someone who's supposed to be actively involved with this verse.

But I think I'll give a weak agreement to this? I might have to put more thought into it, but you give a good argument in favour of the point.
 
Well, so far we've got 13 agreements, 3 of which are staff, being DMUA, DarkGrath, and DDM via agreeing with Grath (correct me if I'm wrong).

Waiting on Oblivion and Dragonmasterxyz, Dargoo if he's free and Ultima if he wants to.
 
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