Part III: Naruto LS statements (STAFF ONLY)

[Damage3245]

@TataHakai; as far as I recall, yes.

@Jvando; I'm not sure about that.

We know that even Sharingan/Rinnegan users can be blinded to an extent.

When Madara and Kabuto were charging forwards, they recieved a face-full of light and their eyes were wide ope.

I'm not saying that Tsunade can just blitz Madara whenever she wants. Compare it to here where she's charging straight towards him in full-view, where he's expecting her, and he causally blocks it with a Susano'o.

What I'm saying is that it is not unlikely that a surprised, potentially-blinded Madara could be taken off-guard by an attack from an opponent he didn't expected, and despite all that he still managed to block the kick and expertly recover his stance. If anything that speaks volumes about Madara's skill.

 

[Jvando]

I see where you are coming from and I agree about the point of the light, but you also see that Madara had to cover his eyes because he couldn't take too much of the light. In addition, there were like dozens of shinobi using Flash Pillar (a technique specifically used to blind the opponent) at the same time to create that affect. I'm not sure it can even be compared to the blinding effect from a transportation Jutsu whose purpose isn't even to blind an opponent. I feel like comparing those two scenarios is kind of iffy.

I can make some more rebuttals but I think that what should be the deciding factor should be what makes more sense and what requires less assumptions. From all the evidence shown, I think it makes more sense that Ay an Tsunade (Unser the effects of the LS transport) simply collided with Madara and Muu in mid air and Madara, being the badass he is, reacted to it like a champ while Muu couldn't take the heat. I'll agree that Muu was likely blinded by the attack to some capacity but that really doesn't negate my overall point.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm still in agreement with Jvando here.

 

[TataHakai]

I think this thread is becoming kinda circular now

We should go with what the general staff consensus is i suppose since there doesn't seem to be an end to this either way.

 

[M3X_2.0]

what about Issen?

 

[TataHakai]

I'm going to try and sum up the consensus from here

Lariat: Everyone Agreed to accept it

Issen: Everyone except Damage agreed to it?

Madara reacting: Everyone except Damage agreed to it i suppose

 

[Jvando]

what about Issen?

Not sure. I don't mind if the staff don't agree with that one since it's nothing too major regardless.

The Madara reaction and the Databook Lariat seem to be generally agreed upon though.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm still in agreement with Jvando here.

Do you mind if I ask which bit convinces you that Tsunade and Ay were still moving at lightspeed when they hit Madara and Kabuto/Mu?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He said near light speed or something along those lines, I don't recall him outright saying that are lightspeed. Everyone also seems to agree with Lariat as Taka mentioned.

 

[Damage3245]

Tsunade and Ay would have to have been travelling at lightspeed if we go by Jvando's interpretation.

As for the Lariat, I agree with that one for now until any new evidence comes up (which might suggest it to be an outlier) - though I have disagreements with Tata on where it should apply when they're using Lariat which we discussed in the comments of his calc.

 

[TataHakai]

I'm still in agreement with Jvando here.

Do you mind if I ask which bit convinces you that Tsunade and Ay were still moving at lightspeed when they hit Madara and Kabuto/Mu?

Damage it's a simple case of Occam's razor

"Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation."

Your argument not only assumes that Madara and Muu were blinded but it assumes that Ay and Tsunade landed when that's never show, it assumes that they then jumped up above madara and muu to attack which is also never show, it assumes that Madara was taken by surprise because of a light.

On the other hand we have the other argument, Ay and Tsunade simply struck down as they were being brought down with the jutsu, this is supported by not only simple logic such as "If Tsunade landed before Jumping up to attack, she would've taken too much time and someone who is far faster like madara could easily just move out the way" but also by the positioning we FIRST see themselves i, that's the difference between actually shown visual exposition and an assumption.

That's all i'll have to say regarding the Muu/Madara feat

 

[Damage3245]

@Tata; we know that Madara and Kabuto were surprised by the preceding panel where their reaction is '?!!'.

My interpretation doesn't require that they be blinded; it is only a logical possibility which can support it.

We do not seeing Tsunade and Ay coming down vertically here. Simply being at a slightly higher elevation doesn't prove that there's where they started when the Ethereal Transmission jutsu ended.

Both the manga and the anime show the light from their arrival as being below Madara and Kabuto. I think that is significant.

> "If Tsunade landed before Jumping up to attack, she would've taken too much time and someone who is far faster like madara could easily just move out the way"

Madara is already flying through the air and as mentioned he is surprised - and potentially blinded - so saying that he could just easily move out of the way if a stretch.

You don't have to respond, but I don't think this is as simple as just waving Occam's Razor as it.

EDIT: Has anyone calced what kind of reactions that Ay and Tsunade would need in order to perform their feat?

 

[Antvasima]

@Damage

Can you provide a TL;DR summary of the discussion and the conclusions please?

 

[TataHakai]

I got you Ant

Lariat: Everyone including Damage agrees that Lariat is fine to use, Relativistic+ attack speed for Bee and Ay with it though it shouldn't scale to their normal movement or all attacks

Muu and Madara reacting to Mabui's teleporation: Me, Jvando, Dark and Elizhaa pretty much agree that all the context points towards Tsunade and Raikage punching before the jutsu was finished whereas Damage thinks differently

Issen: Though not much has been said regarding this throughout the thread, i'm under the assumption that both Dark and Elizhaa agree with Jvando on this, i'm staying neutral on this particular one and Damage disagrees with it being Light speed

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am not able to help much, but you can probably apply the result that you all agree about.

I will unsuvscribe to this thread. You can send me a message if you need my help later.

 

[Damage3245]

I mean the only evidence from Issen being lightspeed is the databook statement itself. Nothing in the manga implies lightspeed attack speed.

 

[TataHakai]

As i said i'm staying neutral in regards to Issen

What else is there to do with this thread? Or are we done

 

[Jvando]

I'm not gonna argue Issen.

 

[TataHakai]

I think everything has been resolved then

Issen: Rejected

Lariat and Madara reacting to Mabui's teleportation: Accepted

This should be fine to close unless someone has something else to say

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I will close this thread then.