Part II: Naruto LS statements

[M3X_2.0]

First topic: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3171925

 

[Rocker1189]

Sasuke dodging isn't accepted, none of that is. Hell it seems the speed of Kirin is contested.
I'm quite certain backwards scaling after like a decade timeskip is allowed based off of nothing but title is allowed.

This scaling chain doesn't prove anything, it just means those characters are unquantifiably higher then Mach 6800. This doesn't prove it's not an outlier.

then why is bleach's own feats not outliers? They dont even have statements at least try not to be a hypocrite.

 

[Jvando]

@Jvando

Calcs take precedence over statements in a majority of cases, none of this makes sense for the period it was in. In series nothing proves any of this is light speed or near it. It's a massive outlier because there are no feats close without the use of Databook statements and no supporting evidence.

We still have the solid feat of Madara blocking the attack from the LS transport that hasn't even really gotten sufficient counter evidence. Most of it has just been a chain of conjecture to try and claim they landed first before attacking which requires a lot more assumptions than just flat out saying they have relativistic reactions, supported by Databook statements and the anime. and again:

TataHakai I'm staying neutral on this

However if we had someone dodge a stated lightspeed attack then have someone else relative to them stated to be stated to be near lightspeed then in any other verse that'd probably be accepted without argument.

 

[Gogogozoom7]

Does someone really have to say it again?Leave other franchises out of this.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Rocker

Bleach didn't go from MHS to rel. I don't even think there is a MHS calc.

There are several quantifiable calcs placing them from Sub-Rel+ to Rel. and even a pre-time skip rel calc. This is nothing like what we're seeing here which is all statements and nothing to back it up in terms of calcs.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sasuke dodging was accepted. Damn, I can link you the threads and the blog. IMade was debunked, Kep was debunked, Damage was debunked, Xulrev was debunked. They all were against Sasuke dodging but they were debunked. If you bring me an argument for Sasuke not being able to dodge, then it is ok but no, you are just saying it was rejected but you don't even know about.

 

[Xulrev]

then why is bleach's own feats not outliers? They dont even have statements at least try not to be a hypocrite.

Why is this the go-to maneuver for every single Naruto thread?

Either argue the point that is in contention, make a CRT on the point you disagree with concerning Bleach, or drop it entirely as it is irrelevant.

 

[M3X_2.0]

And tell me the problem of a top tier character being tens of times faster then fodder character please. Take into consideration that Ay is known by his speed

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm aware of the threads I just don't comment, show me where an admin or discussion mod said it's fine? That is how things get accepted in the wiki.

 

[Gogogozoom7]

Sigurd ''does'' have a point.But i'll unfollow this thread for now and just watch.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Why this is needed? All arguments were debunked. There is no argument in favor wo why is this necessary?

 

[Rocker1189]

Why is this the go-to maneuver for every single Naruto thread?

Either argue the point that is in contention, make a CRT on the point you disagree with concerning Bleach, or drop it entirely as it is irrelevant.

It is a go to because people who allow things for one verse wont allow it for another while arguing against what they allow. I say dont be a hypocrite. Youu cant tell me, that MHS+ to relativistic is not fine while it is okay for your verse.

When you dont even have a calc in the first place.

 

[M3X_2.0]

But don't worry Sigurd. You will see Sasuke's feat for dodging Kirin soon in his profile. Now I just want to know why all this is stuff is an outlier

 

[Damage3245]

@M3X: simply claiming that all arguments were debunked doesn't make it true.

But besides that, this is a not a thread for Sasuke's feat unless you actually want to make it part of the thread for discussion.

Because right now it is not accepted that Sasuke has a Sub-Rel feat of dodging Kirin.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

> Ay is known by his speed

This means nothing, it's not quantifiable. You need hard feats not unsupported statements that lack sense in that period of time.

 

[M3X_2.0]

@M3X: simply claiming that all arguments were debunked doesn't make it true.
But besides that, this is a not a thread for Sasuke's feat unless you actually want to make it part of the thread for discussion.

Because right now it is not accepted that Sasuke has a Sub-Rel feat of dodging Kirin.

Yes it make because it was. And you was debunked as well on that thread. I am not talking about his sub rel rating, just the fact that he dodged Kirin.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker
Bleach didn't go from MHS to rel. I don't even think there is a MHS calc.

There are several quantifiable calcs placing them from Sub-Rel+ to Rel. and even a pre-time skip rel calc. This is nothing like what we're seeing here which is all statements and nothing to back it up in terms of calcs.

so they dont even have a feat they just having blitzing 3 people so MHS is fine lol, even ******* better, you said blitz chains dont matter but you guys literally scale up 2 speed tiers from 1 single blitzs chain.

You are right, it is nothing, it is even worse than what we are doing which is using the feats stated in the literal informational of the verse and applying them.

 

[Rocker1189]

Does someone really have to say it again?Leave other franchises out of this.

I wont when hypocrites from other franchises argue like they are being logical.

 

[M3X_2.0]

You need hard feats not unsupported statements that lack sense in that period of time.

I already told you the feats but you seems to ignore. Ay blizted Sasuke who blizted Naruto, wich is faster or at least equal to Shino. As they can keep up with each other. You must be blind or have a bias to deny this

 

[Gogogozoom7]

Then dont be the one that decides to be illogical because of it.Let's argue within the bounds of this verse,and once again,leave other franchises out of this.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Smh, we don't scale off of blitz chains. At least know what you're talking about if you want to use the series as an excuse.

High tier have their own calcs and god tiers have their own.

 

[Jvando]

We still have the solid feat of Madara blocking the attack from the LS transport that hasn't even really gotten sufficient counter evidence. Most of it has just been a chain of conjecture to try and claim they landed first before attacking which requires a lot more assumptions than just flat out saying they have relativistic reactions, supported by Databook statements and the anime. and again:

TataHakai I'm staying neutral on this

However if we had someone dodge a stated lightspeed attack then have someone else relative to them stated to be stated to be near lightspeed then in any other verse that'd probably be accepted without argument.

 

[Rocker1189]

Then dont be the one that decides to be illogical because of it.Let's argue within the bounds of this verse,and once again,leave other franchises out of this.

I would not if people that support said franchises are willing to be hypocrites. Trust me telling me again wont help.

 

[Damage3245]

> Ay blizted Sasuke who blizted Naruto, wich is faster or at least equal to Shino.

Which version of Naruto is this? What is the connection between him and adult Shino in Boruto?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Hey Damage answer something first. Do you think Shino is faster than all Shippuden characters just because he is from New Era?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Backwards scaling off a decade timeskip is likely not allowed without sufficient evidence or some sort of statement.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Because he is just a fodder jonin, when he always had Elite Jonins and Anbu ninjas wich is faster

 

[Rocker1189]

Smh, we don't scale off of blitz chains. At least know what you're talking about if you want to use the series as an excuse.
High tier have their own calcs and god tiers have their own.

then where are these damn calcs, ichigo scales from blitzing 3 Lieutenants at once.then scales to grimmjow that sclaes back to himself, such calcs.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Oh you're talking about Pre-timeskip, those ratings are shit. This is a known fact, and we've been trying to fix them. Ask the people who let the profiles become like this back in whatever year.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Stop talk about Bleach aaaaaaaaaa

 

[Rocker1189]

so where does the mhs somehow get to sub-relavistic then, or you are suddenly fine with that cause it is bleach? heck their last calc before sub-rela hypersonic.

 

[Damage3245]

Hey Damage answer something first. Do you think Shino is faster than all Shippuden characters just because he is from New Era?

No. Not all Shippuden characters.

But you'd need to specify when exactly characters become faster than that version of Shino and how this is known.

 

[Rocker1189]

I want to stop talking about it but with these guys being so hypocritical it is getting on my nerves. Stick to one way of doing things. Dont change it depending on verse.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Shino is just a Jonin, that's all he is. He is not even a Elite Jonin like Kakashi and Guy was. I really like to know why Elite Jonins are not faster than Shino, wich is a fodder teacher

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why is this the go-to maneuver for every single Naruto thread?

Either argue the point that is in contention, make a CRT on the point you disagree with concerning Bleach, or drop it entirely as it is irrelevant.

Just popping in to address this.

No, he shouldnt have to make a CRT because he's not having issues with Bleaches speed. He's calling out a double standard when the situation is similar or exactly the same. If another verse gets treated differently for the same stuff, then its a double standard that should be called out.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Rocker

There is no MHS calc, this calc they're scales to now is like Rel or something. We don't agree with the backwards scaling back to this period, we're planning to fix that. You could even ask Tata or Damage.

 

[Rocker1189]

exactly.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker
There is no MHS calc, this calc they're scales to now is like Rel or something. We don't agree with the backwards scaling back to this period, we're planning to fix that. You could even ask Tata or Damage.

we are plannign on fixing that, just let us get the relativistic scaling in first you know, super easy. we dont even have MHS calcs and only one sub relavistic calc, heck the only statement we have is one lightning speed one that scales to everyone but when it comes to Naruto.. nah no can do, it has to scale perfectly or every statement is false or hyperbole.

dont give me this bs.

 

[Jvando]

The entire disagreement with the Madara feat seams to stem from mere conjecture that leads down a rabbit hole of more conjecture solely in order to justify Ay catching KaMuuto off guard in order to somehow prove that Ay landed before he attacked...that doesn't work.

We know exactly what's it would have looked like had they arrived from the sky directly to the ground:


There is nothing like that happening in the second picture though. You can clearly see them rushing towards KaMuuto and Madara and not the ground. You need substantial evidence to prove that they did rush directly towards the ground in front of KaMuuto and Madara which hasn't even been shown.


Better yet, this feat ties in perfectly with the Databook statements which would put the characters at around Rel+

My rendition of events is supported by evidence to why they didn't land before attacking (Ay would have used his Lightning Cloak like he does every. Single. Time.), the anime, and Databook statements that put such high tiers around that speed.

Finally, my rendition of events requires much much less assumptions in order to justify than the opposition. Occam's Razor I think it's called.

 

[Xulrev]

Just popping in to address this.

No, he shouldnt have to make a CRT because he's not having issues with Bleaches speed. He's calling out a double standard when the situation is similar or exactly the same. If another verse gets treated differently for the same stuff, then its a double standard that should be called out.

He really should if he has issues with how speed is treated.

It's not a proven double standard at all, it's an assertion of one, and it is provably derailing and a pretty poor tactic of defending a point. Simply crying 'but double standards!' without any proof is not how debates ought to occur; deal with the issue at-hand, defend the points at-hand, and then move on to the next issue if any perceived double standards exist. It's simple.