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Part 1 Naruto AP Revisions

AstralKing7 said:
It's literally case by case. If the character shows to have durability that scales to his AP then we scale it literally
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Again though, you're talking about it the other way around. Scaling durability to AP can be okay in some circumstances. Scaling AP from a character's durability is a lot harder to prove should almost never be done.
 
Again though, you're talking about it the other way around. Scaling durability to AP can be okay in some circumstances. Scaling AP from a character's durability is a lot harder to prove should almost never be done.

I get what you're saying but why would his AP be so much lower than his durability? Especially since in this case nothing is really contradicting it. The two 8-Bs he was fighting couldn't do any meaningful damage to him and he overwhelmed them. KC Naruto is the only one who hurt him(other than Kakashi ofc), so why wouldn't he scale to him seeing as how he survived that beating with minor injuries.

Also I know it's a random example, but we scale Killua's AP using his durability. I know it's random and unrelated but just as a principle there's precedence for it.

Anyway I'll reread the fight again just to be sure, but I don't think it's inconsistent, especially when you factor in his war arc feats and Zabuza's statements as supporting evidence.
 
M3X said:
Scaling AP is to durability is easy. Trade blows is an example
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That's different. That's scaling between two characters which is of course easy. I'm talking about the scaling when there's only a single individual involved.

@UchihaSlayer96; I'll look into that for Killua and creating a revision thread to address it if I have time.
 
I agree for Haku being 8-B with a possibly Low 7-C.

Not only does Sasuke clash a few times with Haku directly, he even gets a kick in and hurts him. Zabuza isn't even surprised that he got hurt, but that Sasuke was comparable in speed.
 
Okay so I just reread the fight and Sasuke IS comparable to haku in speed(without ice mirrors ofc), but he did not hurt him at all, only KN0 Naruto did. Haku previous to Kyubi's chakra leaking was absolutely destroying both effortlessly and they clearly stood absolutely no chance.

So what I'm proposing is that even if we don't scale him to low 7-C fully, he should get a "LikelyHigher rating to at least convey the difference in strength, because it is massive. He could've killed either of them at any point prior to KN0 Naruto awakening and was clearly holding back.
 
>"Didn't hurt him at all" >Sasuke literally clashes weapons with Haku like twice, and one of those shows both their arms trembling from the effort. >Literally kicks Haku on the face, making clear blood sprout out.

Wat?

He could have killed either of them because he knows pressure points. This is why Sakura proclaims Sasuke evaded hits to his vital areas but Sasuke refutes her, Haku specifically didn't aim for them.
 
I mean he was completely unfazed after and went on to use ice mirrors with no visible sign of being damaged. He only truly got hurt by Naruto and even that beating he managed to tank, at least until Naruto decided to stop. So I don't think blood sprouting matters when he's otherwise completely unfazed and unharmed
 
And Yamamoto was completely unfazed when Aizen speared his stomach with a sword.

Characters being unfazed doesn't change the simple fact that they took damage and could be hurt. Rather, characters are unfazed all the time because not feeling pain is cool. Casts subtle glance at Baki.

By that logic he scales above Kyuubi Chakra Naruto too, as he completely stopped Naruto's attack and invoked a mirror to intercept Raikiri, like he was completely unaffected, the second he felt Zabuza in danger.
 
Except I'm not suggesting he's above Naruto, so please don't misconstrue my argument.

1) He was visibly damaged by Naruto, he survived it, but he was clearly in pain and had visible damage. Not to mention he'd completely lost hope in defeating Naruto so I wouldn't be so foolish as to suggest he's stronger than Naruto. But he DID survive his attack, so he scales to him but to a lesser degree obviously is what I'm suggesting here.

2) Sasuke's attack didn't have anywhere near the same effect as Naruto's because he was completely uninjured and went on to use his ice mirrors without issue. Not to mention the ice mirrors tanked Sasuke's Katon like it was nothing. So overall I think Sasuke is way below Haku tbh
 
I am not misconstruing anything, I am showing how flawed the argument is. Pain is indication of nothing, someone much weaker can cause you pain. Characters make pained noises a lot of times and yet the barest they get is scraps.

It obviously didn't have the similar effect, doesn't change the fact Sasuke damaged him and physically clashed with him in equal ground. And good, they tanked heat, that has nothing to do with Sasuke matching him physically and hurting him.
 
So now Katons are just heat that have no bearing on AP lol? I hope you're not forgetting that the 8-B rating comes from Sasuke's Katon, which also scales to his physical AP at least in the current way we're scaling them. So no the Katon doing no damage is a durability feat as far as I'm concerned.

And the damage Naruto caused is very clearly different from the one Sasuke caused. Haku literally said he will not be able to defeat Naruto as he got easily punched away breaking through his previously unharmed ice mirror. I think we can both agree that Naruto can dish out way more than Sasuke and that it took that much to defeat Haku both physically and mentally. Nothing Sasuke did had such an effect, nowhere near it.

But again even if we don't scale him fully, at least acknowledging the possibility that he's above 8-B should be warranted no? Now I don't want to derail this thread more than is necessary so let's just wait for more input for the time being.
 
Not what I meant but, sure...? At this point Sasuke's Katon is mainly a ball of strong fire that vaporizes stuff, so it simply means the mirrors are as, if not more, resilient than Haku and have fire resistance (not sure why that was never added).

It doesn't matter. Sasuke matched Haku physically and damaged him. Naruto being more powerful and dealing more damage is inconsequential to this simple fact.

I mean, I did propose 8-B, Possiby/Likely Low 7-C at the very start after giving the reasons why I disagree with outright Low 7-C.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Wrath; why wouldn't that make sense?
Also, even if Neji could keep up with 0-Tails Naruto, he still seemed pretty clearly inferior since he wasn't able to fully deflect his attack and ended up weakened to the point where base Naruto could beat him with a surprise punch.
Click to expand...
That wasn't KN0, he just borrowed some biju chakra. There were no signs of feral transformation during that fight, or most of the Gaara fight.
 
That was KN0. KN0 is literally just Naruto pulling out some of the Fox's chakra but not to the point that he causes a tailed shroud.

He even clearly got more powerful. He just didn't get more animalistic because he was controlling it.
 
Not really.

KN0 makes his nails and fangs grow, his eyes become slitted. He overall goes berserk, too. Like against the Boa, the first leg of the fight against Sasuke, Haku or Kimmimaro. Nothing suggests that it was KN0.
 
Yes, he grows Berserk because he gets influenced by the fox. That doesn't change the fact that both instances are using fox chakra and both boost him up.

Bringing up a non existent difference of power is not an argument.
 
I'm pretty sure Naruto using KNO/Vermillion Mode without a change to his appearance is just an oversight or something not important, the intent is that he is using Kurama's power.

Besides even when he gets the Red eyes and shit he is still able to think rationally and hold conversations with someone as shown in his battle with Sasuke, he is just usually angrier.
 
Naruto wasn't in full KN0 when he fought Neji, he only had a tiny amount of Kuramas chakra. Neji was stomping him before and then when he got Kuramas chakra he almost overwhelmed Neji but Neji was still keeping up with him. But when he went full on KN0 like against Haku and Sasuke he completely stomped them even though he was getting stomped before the transformation. So true KN0 with fangs and red eyes is stronger than what he had against Neji.
 
^ I agree with this, the angrier and more feral the more of Kurama's power he borrows and the stronger he gets
 
AstralKing7 said:
KNO is literally just Naruto using the chakra of Kurama. KN1 is him with 1 tail wth
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Yea, it's the same form, but the more angry and feral he is the more power from Kurama he's able to access. Similar to the Hulk I guess. But it doesn't really matter because he's around the same level of power regardless of the anger lvl, but I guess what I'm getting at is that not all Kyubi amps are exactly equal. It probably varies with anger and whatnot, but ultimately it's the same form and same general power level
 
It doesn't varies with anger. It's with how much chakra he is receiving from Kurama. Kurama makes him go feral because of his will that travels alongside his chakra.

So the more chakra Naruto takes the more differences we can see in his form.
 
AstralKing7 said:
It doesn't varies with anger. It's with how much chakra he is receiving from Kurama. Kurama makes him go feral because of his will that travels alongside his chakra.

So the more chakra Naruto takes the more differences we can see in his form.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I'm saying lol... I agree with you
 
He scales to at least whatever Sasuke is rated as, likely higher.
 
Hahahaha, not even close.

We need all of the affected Part 1 characters written up with new justifications in a sandbox.
 
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