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Pacheco Cara Floja Deletion

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Mr._Bambu said:
I cannot overstate enough that a piece of fiction cannot transcend it's nature as fanfiction by popularity alone. It isn't the same thing as SCP, that's the entire point I've been making. There is a distinction between an SCP I personally could write and what is accepted on their wiki.
Click to expand...
Yet we didn't allow the backrooms despite its similar distinctions
 
Given that SCP is already an issue for its own multitude of reasons, I think we should ignore any precedents set by that verse specifically. It seems to me that SCP is a mess, and using it a precedent hardly seems useful. This discussion doesn't even involve SCP.
 
1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void said:
Yet we didn't allow the backrooms despite its similar distinctions
Click to expand...
My brother in Christ we literally have, just not ALL of the Backrooms because the restrictions were deemed lesser than those held by SCP. The specific creator's videos were allowed per the thread on the subject.

If you want my honest (personal) opinion, I'm pro-SCP deletion, but it is the stance of the wiki itself that SCP just scrapes by. Being even just below SCP in terms of standards is enough. Dunno how many times I need to say this.
 
MrKerf said:
But don't you see how the only difference is the fact that it is posted on the same place as the original and has... popularity.

You can personally write and SCP.
Then you can allow someone else to write about the same SCP.
And, if it were to be accepted by popularity vote, it becomes canon. Or extended canon, same thing.
And thus, ultimatly, a fanfiction of your SCP, written with your blessing yeah, transcends it's nature as fanfiction by popularity.

The only difference I see is... well, the fact that SCP tales and such are published in the same place as originals, unlike mods or DnD campaigns.
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
The difference is whether something is FANFICTION or not. We do not accept FANFICTION on VS Battles, as we have a separate wiki for it. No level of popularity can change whether something is FANFICTION or not- however, integration into the canon could. This is the line drawn for DnD and Red vs Blue.

SCP tales are integrated into the greater SCP mythos by the same means that traditional pages are. It is not comparable to someone's Minecraft RP which includes Pokeballs. If you cannot see that, that's rough but I can't force you.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
My brother in Christ we literally have, just not ALL of the Backrooms because the restrictions were deemed lesser than those held by SCP. The specific creator's videos were allowed per the thread on the subject.
Click to expand...
That's true, I remember that. No one tried creating any Backrooms profiles yet.
Mr._Bambu said:
If you want my honest (personal) opinion, I'm pro-SCP deletion, but it is the stance of the wiki itself that SCP just scrapes by. Being even just below SCP in terms of standards is enough. Dunno how many times I need to say this.
Click to expand...
Well, I was using SCP simply because you used it as an example before. Ultimatly, even without comparisons, we have standarts for such verses that seem a bit weird, considering we have official books, permissions from Mojang, etc.
 
MrKerf said:
But don't you see how the only difference is the fact that it is posted on the same place as the original and has... popularity.

You can personally write and SCP.
Then you can allow someone else to write about the same SCP.
And, if it were to be accepted by popularity vote, it becomes canon. Or extended canon, same thing.
And thus, ultimatly, a fanfiction of your SCP, written with your blessing yeah, transcends it's nature as fanfiction by popularity.

The only difference I see is... well, the fact that SCP tales and such are published in the same place as originals, unlike mods or DnD campaigns.
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Thats not fanfiction, thats just fiction, by that logic Marvel and DC are just fanfiction because they have a bunch of different authors writing their own stories with their interpretations of the characters in the comic universes

The fact that SCP also has official novels also kinda hard counters your point
 
Mr._Bambu said:
The difference is whether something is FANFICTION or not. We do not accept FANFICTION on VS Battles, as we have a separate wiki for it. No level of popularity can change whether something is FANFICTION or not- however, integration into the canon could. This is the line drawn for DnD and Red vs Blue.
Click to expand...
-_-

Slenderman exits. Marble Hornets used his likeness as a core element in their web series. And it was allowed to have a profile here. Because it had a blessing from original creator and had enough original elements.
It is already allowed.

Dragon Ball GT, as far as I remember, wasn't made with Akira Toriyama's inputs, just with his blessing, and for all intents and purposes - non-canon. Is it fanfiction?
Albeit, admitedly I know far less about Dragon Ball than prior examples.

That's what I was asking in a Backrooms thread - clear rules, not something written on the water with pitchfork.
What is the exact percentage of someone's work allowed to be featured to not be fanfiction? 5? 1?
 
MrKerf said:
That's true, I remember that. No one tried creating any Backrooms profiles yet.

Well, I was using SCP simply because you used it as an example before. Ultimatly, even without comparisons, we have standarts for such verses that seem a bit weird, considering we have official books, permissions from Mojang, etc.
Click to expand...
Oh, rad? Show me the statements from Mojang that make this RP canon and I'll cede my point immediately!
 
Btw I am sick, so I am sorry if I sound evil and some of my points sound stupid.

Bambu, you brought up SCP as an example here.
Mr._Bambu said:
I hate to keep returning to this verse as an example, but SCP comes to mind as a comparison for what you, Oliver, are specifically addressing: the idea that, if the original piece of media allows people to make offshoot works, that this permission immediately validates all of said works.

SCP, functionally, does this, with one exception: for us to accept such a page, it must be accepted onto the SCP wiki. Same for tales or anything else, it has to be brought into the fold, even though anybody can make their own SCPs building off of what every other author has written.
Click to expand...
I just followed said example.
 
MrKerf said:
Btw I am sick, so I am sorry if I sound evil and some of my points sound stupid.

Bambu, you brought up SCP as an example here.

I just followed said example.
Click to expand...
SCP was brought up in the other thread tackling this general issue you asked me to engage in above, lad.
 
MrKerf said:
Very mature, man. You know what I mean. The thing Oliver brought up before.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter. Either show that it is canon to Minecraft or accept that this shit's fanfiction, ergo delete-able.
 
Yeah this is totally canon to Minecraft.
It uses characters that aren't even owned by the company that made it and it has a completely different story.
Bambu is clearly talking out of his ass. This is canon!!
 
Mr._Bambu said:
It is inevitable. Whataboutisms regarding SCP and the debate surrounding the verse is the Sisyphean Task of this wiki.
Click to expand...
this reads like a thinly-veiled excuse

Trying to move on from the SCP talk, I think we should focus more on the copyright stuff. Blue and White was recently removed from the wiki due to basically being a fanfiction that was being publically sold on massive chinese websites, and one of the main arguments for why Pacheco is actually a licensed franchise that totally doesn't break any copyright laws is due to the fact that it has its own book series that sells a lot of copies... in Spain. The question we should be asking is if Spain is also very lax with its copyright laws much like China or Japan, and that's why stuff related to PCF are allowed to be sold there.
 
Yeah

Back to seriousness:
- If Mojang specifically gave it the go ahead (as in, something on par with 343's association with Red vs Blue), then it would be acceptable.

- If it were integrated into Minecraft's canon (as in, something on par with Wizards of the Coast integrating Critical Role's content into D&D canon), then it would be acceptable.

There exists no other situation in which this does not remain fanfiction. That applies for this verse, the Dream SMP, Dimension 20, etc etc. Regardless of how popular they are, it is irrelevant- they are extremely popular instances of fanfiction.
 
Shmooply said:
this reads like a thinly-veiled excuse

Trying to move on from the SCP talk, I think we should focus more on the copyright stuff. Blue and White was recently removed from the wiki due to basically being a fanfiction that was being publically sold on massive chinese websites, and one of the main arguments for why Pacheco is actually a licensed franchise that totally doesn't break any copyright laws is due to the fact that it has its own book series that sells a lot of copies... in Spain. The question we should be asking is if Spain is also very lax with its copyright laws much like China or Japan, and that's why stuff related to PCF are allowed to be sold there.
Click to expand...
I am disinterested in discussing international copyright law that, I guarantee you, all of us are ignorant of, especially when the verse is invalid on significantly simpler grounds.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
SCP was brought up in the other thread tackling this general issue you asked me to engage in above, lad.
Click to expand...
Was it? I can't remember.
Mr._Bambu said:
It doesn't matter. Either show that it is canon to Minecraft or accept that this shit's fanfiction, ergo delete-able.
Click to expand...
I noticed you didn't adress my Slenderman Marble Hornets sentence...

As my head hurts, I haven't read all of it, but Mojang seemingly allows making of secondary work with some amount of Minecraft things.
 
Marble Hornets purposefully made their version of Slenderman... not Slenderman. He's only ever called "The Operator" and has powers original to him. The Operator is an OC based on Slenderman.
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Marble Hornets purposefully made their version of Slenderman... not Slenderman. He's only ever called "The Operator" and has powers original to him. The Operator is an OC based on Slenderman.
Click to expand...
And now we're back to the point. How much does Operator take from Slenderman 5%? 20%? Is 5% not fanfiction, but if he'd have same name - it would?

Alright, I am dying, so off for now. Try not closing it yet. Oliver may have something else to say (or to do, like backing up profiles).
 
MrKerf said:
Was it? I can't remember.

I noticed you didn't adress my Slenderman Marble Hornets sentence...

As my head hurts, I haven't read all of it, but Mojang seemingly allows making of secondary work with some amount of Minecraft things.
Click to expand...
I have, however, addressed Mojang's broad sweeping statements and how they are insufficient. I was under the impression the Marble Hornets comment was not being seriously pursued, given you seemed to agree the Whataboutisms were not necessary, as you separated yourself from the SCP discussion somewhat.

As this does not seem to be the case: Marble Hornets is another extremely shaky case that has survived where it's kin died because it is not, technically, Slenderman featured in their videos. It has the aesthetic of Slenderman but is never referenced to be such. We have deleted similar mythoses for naming the entity in question "Slenderman". It's a terribly fine line, and certainly not one I would have drawn, but it is the line we have.

The OP's verse, to put it in your preferred terminology, is 100% Minecraft. Assigning random numbers to other verses is therefore irrelevant.
 
I may well close the thread when I'm able to, but I will at the very least back up the profiles for transfer to FC/OC.
 
Possibly, depends on what it is. I'm at work so I'll address that shit when I'm not.
 
The profiles can still exist. FC/OC is a perfectly fine wiki, it's not as though we're just erasing them from existence.
 
FC/OC wiki would be better if the FC/OC characters vs VsBattleWiki characters matches could be added to the VsBattleWiki profiles, and not only the FC/OC ones
 
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