Overlord Soul Manipulation Resistance

[Jugger47]

Too bad Dargoo seems to be off right now. And I have no friends Insert Sad Face so I don't know anybody to message over here. So unless somebody else changes or someone else comes I don't think this is going to be conclusive for a bit.

So I'll sleep be back tomorrow.

 

[OpMasada]

Yes, i'm for Hellfire, but it should be noted he would still take damage (possibly a note saying he would take spiritual damage as a regular attack)

 

[Jugger47]

Yes, i'm for Hellfire

XD We are all for hellfire though.

 

[Jugger47]

Yes, i'm for Hellfire, but it should be noted he would still take damage (possibly a note saying he would take spiritual damage as a regular attack)

"Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Must be able to resist Hellfire from Demiurge as Ainz is stronger than Demiurge and would be able to defeat him as stated by Word of God, but would still take chip soul damage)"

Does spirit equal soul damage here? I have no idea.

Also I'm not really sure I agree with him taking soul damage, The way I see it, your get your soul destroyed or you don't. I have never seen anything like soul damage in Overlord. Just complete destruction or not.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm pretty sure we don't scale resistance like this, just because Ainz is stronger doesn't mean he has resistance to Demiurge's soul manipulation.

If this were the case Yhwach as an example would have resistance to every single one of the sternritters hax by virtue of being their superior.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ainz not Aizen lol

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Auto correct my bad lol.

 

[Jugger47]

I'm pretty sure we don't scale resistance like this, just because Aizen is stronger doesn't mean he has resistance to Demiurge soul Manipulation.
If this were the case Yhwach as an example would have resistance to every single one of the sternritters hax by virtue of being their superior.

Again, these comparisons are really quite bad. And I've already gave my explanation on this above. It used to be a video game, high level players had resistances to the haxs they could do, because obviously it wouldn't be a game if you would just die from a single Grasp Heart despite being a level 100 warrior. And Hellfire is a regular spell, not even a super tier spell and much less a world class item, its nothing special.

You are using comparisons from completely different shows that have nothing of the sort of situation.

So unless you are trying to argue for a Demiurge who can just Hellfire one hit KO the whole of Nazarick because in your mind they must not have some sort of soul manipulation.... come on.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Doesn't the soul destruction come from its fluff description when things became a lot more literal?

 

[Jugger47]

Im going to ask.

So you think demiurge should be able to one shot kill Ainz with hellfire? Or that its even a possibility?

 

[Jugger47]

Doesn't the soul destruction come from its fluff description when things became a lot more literal?

Of course, I can't imagine a soul destroying ability in a game.

EDIT: Shit, this sounds like Im being saracastic, but im not, noticing the possible sarcasm made me realise it could be. And just translated into real world soul damage. Who knows though? It doesn't really matter here though.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm talking about how the wiki operates Jugger (if I'm correct), you might as well give Ainz resistance to every other servant in Nazarick abilities because he is stronger.

Although if I'm wrong about the standards on the wiki, it would be fine.

 

[Jugger47]

I'm talking about how the wiki operates Jugger (if I'm correct), you might as well give Ainz resistance to every other servant in Nazarick abilities because he is stronger.
Although if I'm wrong about the standards on the wiki, it would be fine.

And I'm talking about the verse, Overlord.

Demiurge can destroy souls with hellfire, unless you are trying to say Demiurge can just one shot Ainz into oblivion, Ainz must have soul manipulation resistance(in verse and on site) so he doesn't.

 

[Jugger47]

I'm talking about how the wiki operates Jugger (if I'm correct), you might as well give Ainz resistance to every other servant in Nazarick abilities because he is stronger.

Also you still haven't really answered the question.

Do you think Demiurge can incinerate Ainz's soul?

If its a no, Ainz has a resistance to soul manipulation, plain and simple. In verse and on site.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If its from the fluff and not game mechanics, how can we argue that Ainz would have a resistance to it from being a high level character from Yggrdasil? I agree he resists but using WOG as the main reason is a bit iffy when he has never tanked the Hellfire and we have actual feats of him being fine in the presence of Soul Eaters. Feats > statements.

Didn't sound sarcastic so its fine. Soul damage game mechanics would be a pain to figure out/implement.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Can one of you find a quote where Demiurge admitted that he can't defeat Ainz without the use of tactics? That could help prove why Demiurge wouldn't be able to one-shot Ainz at a straight up fight in general.

 

[Jugger47]

If its from the fluff and not game mechanics, how can we argue that Ainz would have a resistance to it from being a high level character from Yggrdasil? I agree he resists but using WOG as the main reason is a bit iffy when he has never tanked the Hellfire and we have actual feats of him being fine in the presence of Soul Eaters. Feats > statements.
Didn't sound sarcastic so its fine. Soul damage game mechanics would be a pain to figure out/implement.

Thats all sound reasoning and I agree. Honestly, both sides can be argued. I think giving both as the reasoning is the only solution at this point.

 

[Jugger47]

Can one of you find a quote where Demiurge admitted that he can't defeat Ainz without the use of tactics?
That could help prove why Demiurge wouldn't be able to one-shot Ainz at a straight up fight in general.

Demiurge being able to just one shot Ainz would be absolutely hilarious but incredibly unlikely.

I'll try looking for it but I have no idea where to start so may take a while.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Jugger

Fair enough

@Noodles

Wouldn't Demiurge overhype Ainz though? The NPCs see him as infallible so I dunno how accurate their assessment would be.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Snip

^

That was what I was going for all along. If one reasoning fails (like the Demiurge one to justify Ainz's resistance to Soul Manipulation), then the other should cover and support it (like the Soul Eaters one).

 

[OpMasada]

I'm also not sure about using this:

• Ainz is currently experimenting on whether or not the Soul Eaters could remain in the New World permanently through consuming the souls of their targets rather than the corpse

As evidence for it working on living beings, because Ainz has to create his undeads through corpses, which I assume is what he's referring to here, for them to be permanent.

I already mentioned that the soul eater reasoning was not so reliable.

 

[DeathNoodles]

@Jugger

Fair enough

@Noodles

Wouldn't Demiurge overhype Ainz though? The NPCs see him as infallible so I dunno how accurate their assessment would be.

They could. But the fact that WoG states that Ainz is of a higher calibre than Demiurge proves that Demiurge's statements might not be just be hype (and Ainz even defeated Shalltear in that fight). This could heavily support Demiurge's statements of needing to use tactics to defeat Ainz if anything.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That just means he has to play his cards right and be careful, nothing to do with resistance whatsoever.

 

[Jugger47]

Also Demiurge is literally called the Weakest Guardian by WoG.

Demiurge being able to one shot any of the guardians is just so, so wrong. Especially since this would be be insanely convenient vs Shalltear when apparently Ainz only had the option of sending himself or nearly all of the floor guardians. But no, nobody else could beat Shalltear 1v1 except Ainz or Rubedo.

 

[Jugger47]

That just means he has to play his cards right and be careful, nothing to do with resistance whatsoever.

Wait, what are you talking about?

Again, do you think Demiurge could just vaporize Ainz with hellfire?

Also if so, you would be the only one here saying that so far.

We are arguing on the reasons for resistance not for the existence of said resistance, the majority of us agree he has one, just for what reason.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You keep repeating that question, but it doesn't matter. He needs feats of resisting hellfire, not random statements of Demiurge needing to utilize tactics to combat Ainz, which hardly means anything since he is normally a tactician.

 

[Jugger47]

You keep repeating that question, but it doesn't matter.
He needs feats of resisting hellfire, not random statements of Demiurge needing to utilize tactics to combat Ainz, which hardly means anything since he is normally a tactician.

Your reluctance to answer this question at all is really telling to me at this point, it tells me you are thinking "I don't want to say Ainz gets insta killed by demiurge because I know that sounds ridiculous" We are already past where you are at right now.

Anyways I'm just going to search for a possible answer on the books for a bit and then sleep, hopefully Dargoo can help us out tommorrow or something. Im gone for the night.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually, I might be leaning on Sigurd here.

Demiurge's Hellfire was still able to melt through Ainz's armor/weapons, so it's not crazy to say that if Ainz got hit by it it could OHKO him. That said, I'd imagine Ainz being able to block it with a sheild or something, otherwise there's not really much Ainz could do about it in a straight fight.

 

[Akreious]

Actually, I might be leaning on Sigurd here.
Demiurge's Hellfire was still able to melt through Ainz's armor/weapons, so it's not crazy to say that if Ainz got hit by it it could OHKO him. That said, I'd imagine Ainz being able to block it with a sheild or something, otherwise there's not really much Ainz could do about it in a straight fight.

You do realize that the armor and weapons Ainz used as Momon is roughly only in the level 30 range right...? It's completely crazy to say it could 1-shot him. It also never melted through Ainz' armour.

Ainz in terms of MP stats is vastly superior to Demiurge; Demiurge stat-wise is one of the lowest in Nazarick made up by higher intelligence than the rest (Smarter than Albedo, who only edges him out in Management Capabilities). If Hellfire Wall was this 1-shot move in the same light as Grasp Heart in the game, it'd be broken if nobody had resistance (Especially since it isn't a higher tier spell). As Ainz was a PvPer, he would've definitely had resistance to Hellfire Wall or else he'd just instantly die to a level 70-ish player who just learned the nigh-instant Hellfire Wall spell.

Supporting evidence is also when Demiurge used Hellfire Wall on the Blue Rose Members, stating he didn't expect them to be so weak and asked why she kept people like them around. This implies people on Evileye's level should've had Soul Manipulation Resistance since they at least wouldn't die to the attack.

 

[PaChi2]

Just saying that Touch Me should undoubtely tank hellfire.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

There is no feats, resistance isn't granted like this.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Touch Me was able to solo the Floor Guardians in the game when soul destruction was fluff and not an actual effect. He definitely shouldn't get resistance.

 

[FDrybob]

It only melted his weak, adamantite-level equipment he made for his persona (about level 30).

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Wasn't Momon's gear Relic class? That isn't that much worse than his usual Divine class equipment.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Touch Me was able to solo the Floor Guardians in the game when soul destruction was fluff and not an actual effect. He definitely shouldn't get resistance.

By that logic, I could say Touch Me has never lost a fight against Ainz as death spells was fluff and not an actual effect. We all know that's not how it works as Ainz didn't even use any of his normal death spells against Shalltear (yes, I know it's because she's an undead. However, that proves that resistances from YGGDRASIL is still considered valid as that proves that having in-game resistances in YGGDRASIL still applies) outside of TGoALID.

 

[PaChi2]

Touch Me was able to solo the Floor Guardians in the game when soul destruction was fluff and not an actual effect. He definitely shouldn't get resistance.

Is there a quote for what you claim? Please I'd like to see it.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Instant death spells weren't fluff, they were a chance based spell that would do what the term says, instant death. Hellfire gets its soul destruction from its fluff description while instant death spells were part of the game mechanics.

 

[PaChi2]

Instant death spells weren't fluff, they were a chance based spell that would do what the term says, instant death. Hellfire gets its soul destruction from its fluff description while instant death spells were part of the game mechanics.

I mean. Do you have a quote on how Hellfire wall worked on Yggdrasil?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

That was something we were talking about in the General Discussion thread. I think it was Jugger who said it was flavor text.

 

[PaChi2]

What...?