Overlord: Environmental Destruction

[OpMasada]

Creation:

ÒÇîThe CreationÒÇì was a super tier spell that could change terrain special effects. In YGGDRASIL, one would use it to ward off the heat in hot regions or to suppress the freezing chill of icy areas.

This feat resulted in the verse becoming Island level, however, nothing else in the story (Excluding World-Class Items, but those are items and not relatable to their strength) has matched this feat as far as I can recall.

After asking Dargoo about this, I think this verse should have their scaling to this feat removed and the feat specified as environmental destruction.

Their 'Notable Matchups' will also have to be removed as it was done with the characters scaling to the feat above.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, I'll say that this is environmental destruction.

There's little reason as to why this would apply to the AP of his other spells, seeing as it's specifically an environmental-altering spell, which means it operates on an ability rather than him producing that much energy condensed at once.

It especially shouldn't scale to his striking strength.

 

[Akreious]

I don't even think this counts as Environmental destruction? The Spell flat out just changes the effects of the terrain like making Volcanoes cool or make freezing terrains to become room-temperature.

Although whatever stat we put in it's place (Or lack of stat), I'd wager we should put an "Likely Higher" at the end. This is because we know that Ainz isn't even anywhere CLOSE to top-tier in Yggdrasill and the only reason why he's so good is because of, let's face it, his borderline obsession with the game. Plus the fact that any worthwhile warriors of the same level as Ainz could in all honesty 1-shot him if Ainz was caught in an inappropriate position for combat.

Edit: Wait all of that didn't make sense. Give me like 20 minutes to rephrase all of that OwO

 

[OpMasada]

Environmental destruction, despite the name is not limited to destruction, but change as well.

I agree with the second paragraph.

 

[OpMasada]

This would also mean every "Notable Match" for characters that scale to this feat would have to be removed- will add it to OP.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Uh....

I have a few questions here

 

[OpMasada]

Uh....
I have a few questions here

Ask them.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Why wouldnt other super tier magic like fallen down be comparable to this?

 

[OpMasada]

Why wouldnt other super tier magic like fallen down be comparable to this?

Because they don't have any feats showing it.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That doesn't make sense. Super Tier magic is explicitly in the same range as other Super-Tier, hence them being in the same tier.

 

[OpMasada]

That doesn't make sense. Super Tier magic is explicitly in the same range as other Super-Tier, hence them being in the same tier.

Being in same tier =/= showing the same feats.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

By definition, to be in the same tier they'd have to show a similar level of power

 

[OpMasada]

By definition, to be in the same tier they'd have to show a similar level of power

Simply put, this spell has a level of power that, when calced, puts it in a far higher tier than other super-tier magic like Fallen Down, a spell that left carbonized tree trunks in a several hundred meter radius.

 

[OpMasada]

Although of course I have no idea what calc fallen down would result in, as it hasn't been calced yet, but I plan to make that the replacement tier.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Thing is though, AoE =/= power, and if it was a outlier it wouldn't be on profile at all.

 

[OpMasada]

Thing is though, AoE =/= power, and if it was a outlier it wouldn't be on profile at all.

Changing the environment, also does not equal strength. I'm not saying it's an outlier, I'm saying it shouldn't scale to his AP/Dura.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

If it doesn't , then how come it got a calc?

 

[OpMasada]

If it doesn't , then how come it got a calc?

They calced the energy output of the change in the environment, this isn't related to his attack power.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Except that there is energy required to cast it regardless, and he would have to be capable of supplying said energy to fuel it.

 

[OpMasada]

Except that there is energy required to cast it regardless, and he would have to be capable of supplying said energy to fuel it.

No he wouldn't? That is not how spells work, the story has never stated they needed to supply as much energy to fuel it, and super-tier spells don't even USE magic energy.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

No, he'd have to use some level of power with the super tier spell. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to use it at all.

 

[OpMasada]

No, he'd have to use some level of power with the super tier spell. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to use it at all.

No he doesn't, you're literally just assuming things. Otherwise, give proof that he needs to provide the same level of energy to use a spell that changes the environment.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Can you rephrase that?

 

[OpMasada]

Give proof that he needs to provide the same level of energy, that the spell "Creation" uses to be able to use said spell.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That's like asking to prove that Goku can release the energy for his kamehameha. Ainz is performing the feat, and yet you are arbitrarily assuming that it in no way scales to his AP. Give me proof that there is a actual reason that we should disregard the method in which we do things here and assume he can't?

 

[OpMasada]

That's like asking to prove that Goku can release the energy for his kamehameha. Ainz is performing the feat, and yet you are arbitrarily assuming that it in no way scales to his AP. Give me proof that there is a actual reason that we should disregard the method in which we do things here and assume he can't?

Don't try to change the burden of proof, I already told you why it doesn't scale to his AP, it's a spell specifically said to change the terrain, you're the one saying that he supplies it with the energy to do so. You're the one disregarding the method the way this wiki works, as environmental destruction has already been confirmed by dargoo to not relate to someone's AP if they have no showing that they contributed to the energy released.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yet just by performing said spell, he'd have to be capable of expending the energy. Otherwise, there would be no level restrictions for Super tier magic. Environmental Damage only applies if the character in question has no way of scaling something to their AP, such as using a ability to cause a storm and using physical blows all other times. You're twisting the definition here.

 

[Akreious]

I mean, by technicality Wish Upon a Star *should* be superior to Creation due to the fact that it's basically reality warping in the New World and that the only limits that we see to it's effects are the fact that it won't work on World Class Item users.

So I guess *Unknown*, "Likely Higher" with Wish Upon a Star?

 

[OpMasada]

I mean, by technicality Wish Upon a Star *should* be superior to Creation due to the fact that it's basically reality warping in the New World and that the only limits that we see to it's effects are the fact that it won't work on World Class Item users.
So I guess *Unknown*, "Likely Higher" with Wish Upon a Star?

Eh, should leave it to Unknown rather than making assumptions until we gain more feats for it.

 

[OpMasada]

Yet just by performing said spell, he'd have to be capable of expending the energy. Otherwise, there would be no level restrictions for Super tier magic. Environmental Damage only applies if the character in question has no way of scaling something to their AP, such as using a ability to cause a storm and using physical blows all other times. You're twisting the definition here.

How am I twisting the definition? You have little proof that this scales to his AP other than your headcanon that ainz expends the same amount of energy that the spell produces, you know how much energy a black hole would have? Far more than what ainz has shown.

The level restriction is irrelevant, that's a literal game mechanic within the verse that restricts those that are not level 90 from obtaining super-tier spells.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Except for the fact we don't consider Ainz black hole legit? And don't pull the game mechanics card, because even in the new world restrictions like that can only be bypassed with specific talents like Nfirea's

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Also, by that logic, none of his spells should scale to his AP at all, which is ludicrous

 

[OpMasada]

Also, by that logic, none of his spells should scale to his AP at all, which is ludicrous

The spells that scale to his ap, are the spells that show AP outside of altering the environment.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

We should definitely make that pseudo black hole creation. It doesn't follow our guidelines at all.

The problem is that here we're arbitrarily assuming what scales to his AP and doesn't with no actual reasons behind these conclusions

 

[Akreious]

That's why I said "Unknown" and proceeded it with "Likely Higher" as Wish Upon a Star is repeatedly shown to be a vastly more potent Super-Tier magic than the rest of it's bretheren Super-Tier spells, especially with the statements that it was only countered because of the World Class Item.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

@Akreious

Do you have a opinion here?

 

[OpMasada]

We should definitely make that pseudo black hole creation. It doesn't follow our guidelines at all.
The problem is that here we're arbitrarily assuming what scales to his AP and doesn't with no actual reasons behind these conclusions

No, we're simply removing his other spells and durability, from scaling to Creation as they have no feat that compares to it.

There is little reason for you to give that would scale any of his other spells to creation, other than the fact they exist in the same tier, as if the concept of differing abilities is unknown to you?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That doesn't make sense. If it were a outlier, it would have never been added in the first place.

No, they are both super tier, implying a comparable level of power, and require a certain level of power to use at minimum, meaning that he has to expend some energy in some way to do the feat.

 

[OpMasada]

That's why I said "Unknown" and proceeded it with "Likely Higher" as Wish Upon a Star is repeatedly shown to be a vastly more potent Super-Tier magic than the rest of it's bretheren Super-Tier spells, especially with the statements that it was only countered because of the World Class Item.

I suppose I can concede with that.

 

[OpMasada]

That doesn't make sense. If it were a outlier, it would have never been added in the first place.
No, they are both super tier, implying a comparable level of power, and require a certain level of power to use at minimum, meaning that he has to expend some energy in some way to do the feat.

Who the hell said it was an outlier? Why do you keep twisting my words?

Super-Tier magic is clearly shown throughout the series to not be centered on power, but rather ability. Creation alters the landscape, Fallen Down is a wide ranged holy attack, the spells ainz used in vol 9 and 10 are shown to summon sht like the dark young and the cherubims. There was another mentioned spell that summoned a lot of demons.