• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Overlord: Environmental Destruction

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm currently Advocating for a "Likely Higher" since Wish Upon a Star is repeatedly implied to be superior to the other Super-Tier spells, including Creation.

Well while I don't WANT to downgrade Overlord, the spell's effect is literally "Change the Terrain's Effects", meaning that it's basically Reality Warping on the ground (At least, to me). So while the AP doesn't really scale, it's still really potent. Pretty sure Creation should also counter Heat/Fire Manipulation and Cold/Ice Manipulation since it directly counters these things as examples? And that's only in Yggdrasill, this isn't counting how it might work differently in the New World.

But I think that with World Class Items and likely Wish Upon a Star, Ainz should definitely be stronger than Creation. World Class Items because... They're balance breakers. They break the game. Most of them at least. Creation is basically smallfry to what World Class items are in terms of effect.

Oh you can change the effects of the terrain? That's cute. I can permanently delete your character's data from the game, directly call the devs to tell them what I want in the game, store EXP so that when I use the Super Tier Spells in the game (While you use Creation), I lose absolutely nothing while you lose levels ;D Oh I also have the Downfall of Castle and Country that bypasses your Mind Immunity cuz' screw you!

See what I mean?

Basically World Class Items > Wish Upon a Star > Creation.

I also see where Yobo is coming from though. Fallen Down shouldn't be TOO much weaker than Creation in effect, and we can't really say otherwise either since the only time it was used, it was done in a localized area against a target. So I'd rather be safe and put "Unknown" in regards to Super Tier Magic, "Unknown, Likely Higher than (Creation's AP) with Wish Upon a Star" and the "likely (Creation's AP)" for the World Class Items for being superior to Creation.

Oh and Ainz is a level 33 Warrior in terms of stats. He ain't getting his spell's striking strength. Although using Perfect Warrior he could probably surpass his Tier 10 Magic Spells, whatever those are.
 
If it isn't a outlier, there are in fact feats near its level

Literally any ability that doesn't negate durability has some level of energy. Focusing on effect does not change that whatsoever. World Tier items are a fine example of this, focused on effects yet explicitly having nearly equal levels of power. It's almost certain that super tier spells follow the same principle, especially since they all require a similar level of power.
 
I'm not trying to downgrade WCI or anything, i'm just saying it doesn't make sense for ainz to scale to Creation at all, i'm already fine with putting "Likely higher" on his profile, and if there is better proof to scale Overlord to island-level I would unhesitantly accept it.
 
Oh no, World Class Items and likely Wish Upon a Star would get him to 6-C since these things are basically always shown to be superior to "Normal" Super Tier Magic, which would include Creation in effect. I remember a World Class Item allowed you to gain power as long as you're in combat, and that item had the threat to allow one to solo all of Nazarick if said user so wished. So they're definitely in the ballpark.
 
You mean Rubedo? The story hasn't confirmed she is a WCI, it's just a theory made by readers.
 
You guys keep mistaking this as well, but WUAS is a super-tier spell, it was never stated to be "better", just that it can warp reality in various ( but currently unknown ) ways.
 
I asked someone to calc Fallen Down, after that, i'll show you guys the change i'm planning.
 
I support all changes/downgrades. 'Creation' always strained me as an outlier in comparison to anything else in the verse.
 
Good lord, I missed a lot.

@Yobo Environmental Destruction

Him creating a storm is widespread destruction that isn't at all representative of how hard his other spells actually hit. That would be like saying every character with weather manip can suddently punch with the force of several million Hiroshimas, which is just funny.

That's why there needs to be addtional reasoning as to why it scales. If he was casting a stream of wind at an opponent that caused a storm to form, sure. But this is just a spell that specifically calls a storm, unrelated to his other single-target spells.
 
Yobobojojo said:
Also, by that logic, none of his spells should scale to his AP at all, which is ludicrous
Click to expand...
That's not this logic at all.

For example; an offensive explosion spell, sure. That's direct damage to a single opponent, which isn't spread out.

A spell that summons a storm? No. That's spread over too wide of an area and has relatively negigible effects on the actual environment. It's worse logic to assume that energy scales to his other spells; it's just not realistic unless there is additional reasoning.

Plus, as it's been said, the feat likely doesn't even involve the energy of a storm creation feat in the first place.
 
I mean, in verse it specifically is indicated of how powerful he is. It takes a certain level of power to reach tier 6 spells like him, and is acknowledged to be a sign of great power. Literally any of his spells past that point are explicitly noted to consume more mana then this ability.

I meant it more in response to something OP Masada said.
 
And yes, I know it's not a storm creation feat, but the same thing applies here. These are spells specifically noted to have a comparable level of power, and have the same restriction on the necessary level of power to utilize them.
 
Of course we'd still call it 6-C enviro destruction.

@Yobo The issue is is that that spell operates over a massive AoE, and doesn't actually cause that much damage to a single character. One of the main reasons we have Enviro Destruction is that it helps prevents statistics from getting massively bloated, as the energy used to make storms is not indicitive of their ability to harm an opponent.

Unless you can confirm to me that it's not a special ability of the spell itself, but rather just the sheer amount of power he puts behind it that causes the storm, it's Envrio Destruction. For example, like I have said before, Weather Manip users aren't typically scaled to their Weather feats. Ainz should be no different, especially as this is a spell that specifically affects the environment, and has little to no similarities with his much more consistent single-target harming spells.
 
I probably read it wrong. I can't seem to find the comment that mentioned that, but where did the 7-A justification come from?
 
In volume 13 ainz uses a 9th tier spell called nuclear blast to completaly destroy a city district.

'Unleashing the fury of that 9th tier spell meant that the surrounding buildings had all been swept away, and there was much more space all of a sudden'

Here is the feat from neia's prespective.

'The members of Blue Rose had said that Jaldabaoth's difficulty rating was above 200. In other words, this was like fighting a huge dragon in the form of a human. Just fighting said battle in the land of men would lead to a great tragedy.'

'They ought to have been grateful that only a single city district was destroyed'

Ainz also considers the spell to be weak in terms of damage despite its destructive power and its AOE chould be increased using widen magic.Other basic enchantements such as triplet magic chould also probably be used to make the spell eiven more destructive.
 
Thanks. We can probably use that as the baseline feat for his destructive capacity, however.

As for his striking strength, what do we have for that?
 
In his normal form Ainz is physically stronger than Brain who is multi-city-block level in terms of striking strength so Ainz should scale.

With perfect warrior his strikes should be as powerful as his offensive spells like nuclear blast.
 
So, his Striking Strength should be:

Multi-City Block Class (Should be significantly stronger than Brain, who is at least as strong as fodder capable of this), City Class with Perfect Warrior (Allows him to hit has hard as offensive spells, such as Nuclear Blast)
 
Seeing as this is unanimous at this point, I feel like the changes can be made.
 
Fallen Down is definitely city level. Dominion Authority is said to have City-Destroying Capacity and Ainz 1-shot it with no difficulty, let alone using a super tier spell like Fallen Down.
 
I'm having bambu calc fallen down, and dominion authority being said to be able to destroy a city is not reliable evidence as it's strongest attack was a single-target spell, it can easily be assumed to mean that an entire city would be no match against it.
 
Except they make it very clear when they mean that? They specifically note that with Soul Eaters and Death Knights, and it's from scaling to Landfall/Evileye, who explicitly stated her full power would vaporize a city
 
Yobobojojo said:
Except they make it very clear when they mean that? They specifically note that with Soul Eaters and Death Knights, and it's from scaling to Landfall/Evileye, who explicitly stated her full power would vaporize a city
Click to expand...
I do not recall evileye stating she could vaporize a city, soul eaters and death knights most definitely have not shown city-busting attacks. IIRC, the only mention of a soul eater by others was a statement from the slane theocracy about several soul eaters found in a ruined beastman city, which can't be calced to AP at all.
 
That's not what I said. I explicitly said that Soul Eaters and Death Knights do not destroy cities, and are a example of the author explicitly seperating out destruction and feats like the ones you mentioned.

I'll see if I can get the quotes
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

TheOrangeGuy09
Environmental Destruction, Low Multi and Qualitative Superiority
Replies
21
Views
1K
TheTenno07
TheTenno07
The_one_you_least_expect
  • Locked
Gum gum storm environmental destruction
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
The_one_you_least_expect
The_one_you_least_expect
MrCricket8464
Murder Drones Solver User(s) Upgrades
Replies
9
Views
1K
Oliver_de_jesus
Oliver_de_jesus
Can Diavolo be 3-A for environmental destruction?
Replies
6
Views
1K
Magicomethkuon
Magicomethkuon
Minos_the_Judge
Saitama POSSIBLE 2-A environmental destruction?
Replies
9
Views
2K
Spectra_Schiffer
Back
Top