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Overgrown Rover vs Rider (Fate/Zero) (Grace Period)

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> I already explain why i disagry all of this besides superior inelect and supernatural luck.

You can disagree with something and still be wrong.

It still takes physical damage, the negation isn't something it is constantly using. And shrinking into oblivion from numerous lethal attacks would incap it.

> Right, it's still incapable.

It's more capable than Rider, and can hold up Rover for... yeah, I've said that part enough. If you want to use the logic you're using to support Rover having an AP advantage then Rider is even further into Mountain with his NPs because he nearly fodderized another 400 megaton 7-A as opposed to Rover beating baselines. Either you can't say who's stronger or Rider has the advantage, take your pick.

> no Caster inside for crying and shit to begin with.

The fact that you're trying to use what is at best a plot hole to defend Rover winning this isn't helping your case.
 
>It still takes physical damage, the negation isn't something it is constantly using. And shrinking into oblivion from numerous lethal attacks would incap it.

He didn't take damage in webcomic so why would he be in such state?

>The fact that you're trying to use what is at best a plot hole to defend Rover winning this isn't helping your case.

I didn't, okay? I'm just curious about it, that all, and it's kinda funny how Supernatural Luck didn't help hit the target:)

Btw i know it's just PIS.

>Either you can't say who's stronger or Rider has the advantage, take your pick.

I'm already picked, Rover far above in AP and Dura than Rider.
 
> He didn't take damage in webcomic so why would he be in such state?

Can you actually link me where the Damage Negation was used? I'm intrested in how it works, as I haven't been able to find much on it outside of here. And it can still be put into submission via physical force.

Actually, I read up on the plot, it didn't use that in any of the fights I could find. It only shrunk down after it fought, so it's at least not combat applicable, and I don't see how it can be considered as damage negation.

So, as I see it, Rider can still kill it with physical attacks.

> I'm already picked, Rover far above in AP and Dura than Rider.

As someone said before me, you can't link a calc to prove that. I'm not saying what you can and can't think, but that wouldn't be a good reason for a vote.
 
>Can you actually link me where the Damage Negation was used? I'm intrested in how it works, as I haven't been able to find much on it outside of here. And it can still be put into submission via physical force.

You can't find this because there no such thing as Damage Negotiation in the first place. He never take any damage at all.

And i never stated it is. I just point out he have an ability to change size.
 
> I just point out he have an ability to change size.

Oh, alright then. It hasn't been used in combat, only after it was defeated, so it isn't applicable either way.

> In this case you can't use it.

Kek, Rider still has IH and his horse, as well as the numerous advanatages I mentioned even without Via Expungatio.
 
> Defeated? Can you remind me when exactly he was defeated?

"obediently sat and stopped the fighting. For the remainder of the invasion, Rover's enormous size began to reduce drastically until it became no bigger than an average dog."

It happened after combat had ended and it was calmed. It's not combat applicable.

Also I hope to God you won't start going into NLF after hearing "when has it been defeated?". Although we've kind of gone down that rabbit hole with your AP arguments.
 
>Also I hope to God you won't start going into NLF after hearing "when has it been defeated?".

Nope. But i just trying point out that he's shrugged not from damage taken.

>"obediently sat and stopped the fighting. For the remainder of the invasion, Rover's enormous size began to reduce drastically until it became no bigger than an average dog."

He didn't change size from his first appearance to the last (except surface): Garou>Saitama>Banga. Always the same size.
 
Nobody yet. Dargoo and Marader have been debating their butts off, but it seems to be in Rider's favor for the moment.

Assuming everyones still voting the same it should be,

Rover - 3

Rider - 2 (He has less votes, but better arguments)

If I could vote, it'd probably be for Rider right now. Dargoo makes some good arguments.
 
Maraderchik said:
He didn't change size from his first appearance to the last (except surface): Garou>Saitama>Banga. Always the same size.
Click to expand...
So, yeah. It isn't combat applicable.

Damage Negation should be removed from what I'm aware of, I'm still not seeing where it demonstrated that.

Rover - 3 (Mada, Johnny, Misterman)

Rider - 3 (Dargoo, Crimson, Monarch)
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Maraderchik said:
He didn't change size from his first appearance to the last (except surface): Garou>Saitama>Banga. Always the same size.
Click to expand...
So, yeah. It isn't combat applicable.
Damage Negation should be removed from what I'm aware of, I'm still not seeing where it demonstrated that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if someone wasn't a little quick to assume with Rover's profile.

EDIT: Dar! Are you past chapter 40 in Gunnerkrigg? I have an awesome Paranatural/Gunnerkrigg match that's a little spoilery
 
>So, yeah. It isn't combat applicable.

Not really. He have an ability to change size and it's never indicate he can't do it in fight pr vice versa. He have this ability, so he can use it if he need to.

>Damage Negation should be removed from what I'm aware of, I'm still not seeing where it demonstrated that.

No objection.
 
Not really. He have an ability to change size and it's never indicate he can't do it in fight pr vice versa. He have this ability, so he can use it if he need to.

I mean, the burden of proof isn't on me, you need to give me evidence that it ca use it for combat, not vice-versa. So, you'd need to show me Rover using the size shifting in combat, which it didn't do until after it had calmed down.

And that's assuming Rover is intelligent enough to notice the speed difference and decide to shift sizes to become faster.
 
Misterman21 said:
I vote for Rover by the way. He can stomp multiple mountain level characters at a time.
Click to expand...
Oh goody more votes on an AP advantage that can't be proved.

Seriously though, Rider's already nearly four times above Mountain, and with that logic I can just say he nearly one-shot Berserker Lancelot, who already scales to a 4x above baseline feat. And he can summon an army that has dozens of 7-A attacks too, wowsers.

Rover just beat up a bunch of baselines for all I'm concerned, as there isn't any Mountain level OPM calcs.

Rover - 3 (Mada, Johnny, Misterman)

Rider - 3 (Dargoo, Crimson, Monarch)
 
>I mean, the burden of proof isn't on me, you need to give me evidence that it can use it for combat, not vice-versa. So, you'd need to show me Rover using the size shifting in combat, which it didn't do until after it had calmed down.

What exactly you need as prove? He did it off screen so we didn't even know in which environments he use it, so i assume it's his natural ability and he can uses it whenever he want.

>And that's assuming Rover is intelligent enough to notice the speed difference and decide to shift sizes to become faster.

There no speed difference. I mean size didn't give you speed advantage or disadvantage, it's give you reach distance.

>Seriously though, Rider's already nearly four times above Mountain, and with that logic I can just say he nearly one-shot Berserker Lancelot, who already scales to a 4x above baseline feat. And he can summon an army that has dozens of 7-A attacks too, wowsers.

So he far above Berserker, or what exactly you point out here? Isn't all Servant almost at the same level? How did you resolve I.H sustain capability, just to hit Rover you need somehow hindrance it;s movements or you think he will stand still and just let you make a punching bag from him?

There only 2 thing in Rider favour, his Intelligence that above Rover and Supernatural luck.
 
What exactly you need as prove? He did it off screen so we didn't even know in which environments he use it, so i assume it's his natural ability and he can uses it whenever he want.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Fallacy#3._Burden_of_proof_fallacy

Never used it in combat, not intelligent to magically start using it in combat.

It's like saying someone with intangibility can start phasing through people and negging dura despite never showing that.

There no speed difference. I mean size didn't give you speed advantage or disadvantage, it's give you reach distance.

Already showed you the math. Scroll up, read my arguments again, then come back and actually refute them instead of restating the same stuff over and over again.

So he far above Berserker, or what exactly you point out here? Isn't all Servant almost at the same level? How did you resolve I.H sustain capability, just to hit Rover you need somehow hindrance it;s movements or you think he will stand still and just let you make a punching bag from him?

Considering I was using that to show how flawed the logic in calling Rover's AP higher through scaling, you've just proved my point to a large degree.

Also I recommend you read the One-Shot article, while Rover didn't one-shot anyone, it goes into how differences in strength needed to overpower enemies in different verses can be drastically different, hence why you'd need a calc to support your claim of Rover's AP advantage.

There only 2 thing in Rider favour, his Intelligence that above Rover and Supernatural luck.

Intelligence, Versatility, Luck, Speed (kek), Powers and Abilities, basically everything but AP, which you can't prove a difference for. Rider turns on IH and projectile spams it to death.

Rover - 3 (Mada, Johnny, Misterman)

Rider - 6 (Dargoo, Crimson, Monarch, John, Glassman, Edward)

thank God this is almost over
 
>Already showed you the math. Scroll up, read my arguments again, then come back and actually refute them instead of restating the same stuff over and over again.

Dude it's not a math. With speed equalized you cover more space in the less time because you bigger, to avoid something you don't need to move more than something small, you just need to move the distance this small thing attack and it's same space this thing cover in the time that you move. This didn't make you faster. same with attack.

>Rover didn't one-shot anyone

It's 7-A's so he didn't. And he didn't need it in I.H case.

>https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Fallacy#3._Burden_of_proof_fallacy

Okay. So this is noncombat ability then?

>Rider turns on IH and projectile spams it to death.

It's not Fate/Zero so it's even count?
 
Speed equalised means that all characters move at the same speed, for example 100m/s.

Rover is a big dog, so let's say that in order to do a single kick, he needs to move his leg a 5m arc.

By comparison, if Rider wants to swing his sword, he needs to move his arm in a 1m arc.

Now, if both characters move at 100m/s, who is going to complete their action first, the one who needs to move their arm 1 metre, or the one who needs to move their leg 5 metres?
 
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