Overgrown Rover vs Rider (Fate/Zero) (Grace Period)

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Rover - 2

Rider - 1

Sorry Dar. Didn't mean to not count ya. Also, I think Rover might out range Rider. As for the 7-B thing, I only ever heard that once in another thread, so maybe take that with a grain o' salt.

Oh Dar. Have you had a chance to check out Gunnerkrigg?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh Dar. Have you had a chance to check out Gunnerkrigg?

I have, actually, although I couldn't get too deep into it, it was actually a lot longer than I expected.

I'll message ya when I'm caught up, though.

 

[Maraderchik]

Rider can't attack from distance by himself or can't fly. If he'd use Gordius he'd be in melee anyway. And this will be disadvantage against Rover.

Rover can do it with his energy balls pretty easy, and it's cover wide space, he can attack and move at same time.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Rider can't attack from distance by himself or can't fly. If he'd use Gordius he'd be in melee anyway. And this will be disadvantage against Rover.
Rover can do it with his energy balls pretty easy, and it's cover wide space, he can attack and move at same time.

He can summon lightning, look at his fight with the monster Gilles summoned. That said, in-character he likes to ram into stuff, so it's fair to say he'd try doing melee at some point. Although as I understand it Rider gets his Tier being superior to a calced Mountain class Servant, whereas Rover stomped a bunch of baselines, so unless you can link me the calc for Mountain level OPM, I can't really say if Rover would be strong enough to take him on, especially in a EX-Rank Reality Marble, getting swarmed by an army of servants.

Supernatural Luck sure helps with projectiles, especially while in flight.

 

[Maraderchik]

There a weak point in his Marble, it's just crumble when huge part of its army been eradicated.


>whereas Rover stomped a bunch of baselines, so unless you can link me the calc for Mountain level OPM.

I have no calc, but as Dragon threat he must have ability to threat multiple cities which is more than mountain.


>Supernatural Luck sure helps with projectiles, especially while in flight.

Well, sure it's can help, but how did you avoid barrage of huge energy balls in relative melee fight?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

There a weak point in his Marble, it's just crumble when huge part of its army been eradicated.

Uh, no? If you're talking about Gil destroying it, that's because he literally tore apart time and space.

Ionian Hetaroi being open is entirely dependent on Rider. Rover can't just dispel it unless he can literally destroy a pocket universe, which Gil had to use Ea to do. That or he kills Rider, which is unlilkely given that he has an entire army of servants at his disposal.

Well, sure it's can help, but how did you avoid barrage of huge energy balls in relative melee fight?

That's kind of what supernatural luck does, makes it easy to do feats that would otherwise be very unlikely. He has enough of it to change inevitable outcomes, such as Gae Bolg.

 

[Maraderchik]

>Uh, no? If you're talking about Gil destroying it, that's because he literally tore apart time and space.

So why this is on his profile?

As it is maintained by the collective magical energy of the entire army, if a large portion of the army is destroyed, the Reality Marble will collapse.


I can't actually argue about supernatural luck, because it's quite vague.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

There a weak point in his Marble, it's just crumble when huge part of its army been eradicated.

Uh, no? If you're talking about Gil destroying it, that's because he literally tore apart time and space.
Ionian Hetaroi being open is entirely dependent on Rider. Rover can't just dispel it unless he can literally destroy a pocket universe, which Gil had to use Ea to do. That or he kills Rider, which is unlilkely given that he has an entire army of servants at his disposal.

No, he's right

IH is fueled by the magic of Rider's army as well as Rider. If enough of them die, he can't sustain it on his own.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh, alright.

That's also assuming that the army doesn't do massive damage to rover before it dissapates. They'll also be able to give Rider more than enough clear shots either way.

 

[Maraderchik]

Rover is extremely durable.

Rover is incredibly durable, being able to withstand hits from Bang, Bomb, Garou, and even Saitama without receiving any or little damage, a very impressive if not nearly impossible feat to accomplish. Rover also forced Bang and Bomb to use Cross Fang Dragon Slayer Fist, a technique more powerful than the one used on Elder Centipede.

From OPM wiki.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mean, a brick wall is extremly durable by human standards.

I'd need to know his dura/AP before I'd make that call.

 

[Maraderchik]

His durability> Garou AP/Striking Strength, which is 7A. So it's should be better than this.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

There's a 10x difference between low-end and high end Mountain level. It seems OPM gets to Mountain via scaling, so for all intents and purposes Rover is "Higher than baseline mountain level".

Rider directly scales to a 385 megaton attack with Bellephron, which would make him nearly four times baseline. Even if you're assuming he's higher than Garou's AP in dura, you wouldn't need that massive of a gap to make that statement.

 

[Maraderchik]

He didn't take any damage from Garou attack at all. But i mean, Rider Marble can't harm Rover in any way, and i'm not sure its give Rider enough time to do significant damage to Rover.

>Rider directly scales to a 385 megaton attack with Bellephron, which would make him nearly four times baseline.

Did i misunderstand something, but it's wrong Rider?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Dude, the AP gap is large enough to where Rider can just run Rover over and cause serious damage.

Lol, my bad. He still scales off of it, though, just like most of the other Mountain level servants. Also, Rider outranks stay night rider in AP/Dura by a long shot, even with NPs.

 

[Maraderchik]

Rover can withstand combined attack from Bomb and Bang which can complete shattered Elder Centipede carapace, which can harmless withstand Bofoi rocket barrage and Genos's spiral incineration cannon,

Just need someone reliable to calculate all of this.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

Rover dura was enough to effortless tank a serious punch from Partial Monster Garou who at this point was superior to his Human Form who could get Metal Bat to bleed with his attack. Metal Bat was able to take a beating from Carnage Kabuto who was in his Carnage mode for 3 minutes, who while in Carnage mode was able to able to fight Superalloy Darkshine for 15 minutes straight.

Also Rover was able to effortless tank a combined attack from Bang (who was able to one shot a baseline mountain level character when weakened) and Bomb (who scale to Bang) when using a weaker move was able to break Elder Centipede'a carapace who in turn could tank Energy blast from post G4 upgrades Genos and missiles from Metal Knight.

So Rover's dura>>>>>Bang and Bombs combined attack>>>Serious Partial Monster Garou punch>>>Human Garou>>>Baseline Mountain Level>>>Genos and Metal Knights AP

I hope that clears things up

 

[Thatoneguy78]

Anyone that is more knowledgeable in OPM scaling, please feel free to correct any mistakes I might have made in my post above

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mean, you cleared up who's stronger than who in OPM, but I have even less of a clue as to how Rover stacks against someone decently far into Mountain level. Considering that scaling chain starts in City level, I'm actually a little less convinced at this point.

At the very best you can argue that Rover is comparable to Rider, but you wouldn't be able to say who definitively has the advantage in AP. Therefore, Rider would have edges in his luck, versatility, and skill, which would make this a pretty clear win for him.

 

[Maraderchik]

Only thing i can't argue here is his luck. But i didn't see how Rider can use his versatility in his favour, same with his skill. As a commander Rider's skill mostly placed in commanding army and control warfare, and not in 1v1 combat.

This is from Rider profile:

Weaknesses: Rider abhors cheap tricks and prefers to face his foe head-on, and his actual martial prowess is not as pronounced as other Servants due to being a king first and a warrior second.

Yeah, scaling started at city level, but you can exclude Genos(questionable) and Bofoy, but Human Garou already above baseline.

Honestly, i think if Rover wouldn't be bloodlusted, Rider can win this via high charisma, because in manga Rover behave as actual dog.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

"roll over boy"

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Honestly, i think if Rover wouldn't be bloodlusted, Rider can win this via high charisma, because in manga Rover behave as actual dog.

^^^^Why I bloodlusted him. I didn't want Rider to win by accidently saying sit.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I mean

Bloodlusting doesn't change the intelligence of the character

 

[Maraderchik]

Sure, but would he care about even listening to his enemy?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Yeah, but unless I'm misunderstanding Bloodlust, Rover should be less likely to listen to precevied commands from something he's trying to kill.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Either way Rider has much, much higher skill/strategy/intelligence. Combine that with supernatural luck and his NPs and I'm not really seeing any good arguments for him losing.

It would be like him fighting the monster Caster summoned, but with him actually being at its level in strength; and the latter not having broken regen as a crutch.

 

[Maraderchik]

How Rider will overcome barrage of energy blasts especially in melee? I mena it's not like he can just tank it outright, so if he didn't have any means to break through this endless barrage he can't really attack, and if he somehow can place his attack it's wouldn't be a deadly hit.

Again he casualy shrug off Garou and Bang&Bomb combined attack.



Is there any example of Rider strategy feat in 1v1 combat? (I'm not so knowledgable in Nasuverse)

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

bump

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Man, I love broken notifications.

I'm going to say AP/Dura is off the table as we don't have an exact value for Rover. Not really anything to argue there anymore.

The barrage isn't endless, and Rider can avoid projectiles pretty well on his mounts. Also, Superhuman Luck helps.

Getting into melee seems pretty easy while Rover is occupied fighting an EX-Ranked Anti-Army phantasm.

Rover's still animalistic, compared to an experienced strategist and combat expert, who can summan an entire army.

 

[Maraderchik]

>I'm going to say AP/Dura is off the table as we don't have an exact value for Rover. Not really anything to argue there anymore.

Well then how should we keep going from this? In manga and webcomic he had very high durability, but okay let's wait Murata 's version of this and maybe there will be more feats from Rover.

>Getting into melee seems pretty easy while Rover is occupied fighting an EX-Ranked Anti-Army phantasm.

This is pretty much nonfactor here because Rider can't sustain his army if Rover use his energy balls, Rover AP should be much higher than soldiers durability, and they just die in aoe.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

My main question is how powerful is the average spirit in his NP? Cause if their weak enough, Rover wouldn't be very occupied at all. A few shots would be all it takes to knock out enough of the army to knock down the marble.

I feel like I've said this before here, but I'm too lazy to go back though the thread.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

>Well then how should we keep going from this? In manga and webcomic he had very high durability, but okay let's wait Murata 's version of this and maybe there will be more feats from Rover.

We don't. We know that Rover is pretty far within Mountain level, but we don't have a solid number as he gets his tier from scaling. We have a definitive number for Rider's AP (Which also happens to be nearly halfway into Mountain), so it would be presumtuous to attempt to argue who has the better physical stats. If there was a Mountain level OPM calc, we could get a straight answer.

> This is pretty much nonfactor here because Rider can't sustain his army if Rover use his energy balls, Rover AP should be much higher than soldiers durability, and they just die in aoe.

> .A few shots would be all it takes to knock out enough of the army to knock down the marble.

Nah, said army was able to keep a monster just as, if not more strong than Rover at bay for over a dozen minutes. Said monster needed a High 7-A attack to completly kill. Ionian Hetaroi isn't filled with fodder. Every single soldier in there is a certified Heroic Spirit, and it's more than likely several of them in there would be near Rover's AP seeing as Rider wouldn't have been able to keep Caster's monster at bay with 9-Bs and 7-Bs.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Several members of IH are actually stronger than Rider himself, as Rider is a "commander" not a "warrior".

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Somehow I keep forgeting about Caster's monster.

@Monarch Wow really? That's pretty cool. And are you voting?

Rover - 2

Rider - 1

 

[Misterman21]

I vote for Rover FRA

 

[John985]

I'm not sure you can just vote for Rover, we still don't know how far he is in 7-A teir.

 

[Maraderchik]

Nah, said army was able to keep a monster just as, if not more strong than Rover at bay for over a dozen minutes. Said monster needed a High 7-A attack to completly kill. Ionian Hetaroi isn't filled with fodder. Every single soldier in there is a certified Heroic Spirit, and it's more than likely several of them in there would be near Rover's AP seeing as Rider wouldn't have been able to keep Caster's monster at bay with 9-Bs and 7-Bs.

Monarch Laciel

Several members of IH are actually stronger than Rider himself, as Rider is a "commander" not a "warrior".

Good part is that Rover didn't need to fight against them, he can just kill everyone else and it's gone.

Edit: Can Rider summon only them with his IH? I mean without fodder just strongest several 7-A entity?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

> Good part is that Rover didn't need to fight against them, he can just kill everyone else and it's gone.

Did you, like, read anything I posted? Rover isn't killing an army that could take on a monster that was physically stronger than Rider, and as Monarch said, many of them are comparable, if not superior to Rider himself.

 

[Maraderchik]

Yes i read all of that you and Monarch posted before. And it's still didn't explain how this huge army infantry can defend themselves against range aoe attack. They have any magic shield that can defend them from it? What's stops him just run everywhere and pew pew pew them? In all this army only several capable fighters, why would you fight them if you can just avoid them and stomp everyone else?

Gigantic Horror: is incredibly difficult to kill due to its regenerative capabilities, allowing it to constantly regenerate from attacks from Saber, Lancer, Rider, and the Gate of Babylo

Isn't it more than just Rider?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Rider drew the Gigantic Horror into Ionian Hetaroi, without any of the other servants. So yes, it was just Rider and his Marbel. Which also says a lot, considering, as you just said, it took attacks from Saber, Lancer, Rider, and GoB.

AoE attacks won't do much against an army who was able to take something with a AP advantage to Rider himself. Considering how intelligent and capable Rider is as a leader, he'd also easly work around any weaknesses Rover has. Rover is getting hit with an Army who could take on something that Rider couldn't meaningfully harm himself, with members in there superior to Rider himself. It's better to argue some of IH are stronger than Rover to a decent degree.