Overgrown Rover vs Rider (Fate/Zero) (Grace Period)

[Maraderchik]

I'm misunderstood something about his phantasm or everyone or huge part of this army was 7-A? How exactly they can take it? Sure there some individuals on pair with Rider or above him but everyone else CAN'T freely take attack from 7-A being and just keep fighting.

Can you elaborate how this fight will be going to not let Rover crumble this phantasm? Rider must command everyone in his army to just run away and keep only 7-A beings to fight Rover.

Just with significant damage it's all fall apart. He didn't need to fight against stronger opponent, he just eradicate small fry. Just think about regular beast, like Lion for example, would he prey rhino or just effortlessly kill some easy target?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

> How exactly they can take it? Sure there some individuals on pair with Rider or above him but everyone else CAN'T freely take attack from 7-A being and just keep fighting.

The did exactly that.

Collectively, the army fought something Saber, Lancer, Rider, and GoB couldn't kill. Rider would at least be able to keep the Marble up for several dozen minutes against Rover considering his fight with the Sea Monster, which would be much more than enough for him and his army which includes 7-As to kill Rover.

If the Marble would crumble that fast against something like Rover, logically the fight with Caster would have ended nearly at the moment he activated the Marble.

Also, Rider himself, and his 7-A summons can individually kill Rover, just remember that. I don't even think he needs to pull out IH to win this.

 

[Maraderchik]

>Also, Rider himself, and his 7-A summons can individually kill Rover, just remember that. I don't even think he needs to pull out IH to win this.

Can he summon only them? If he can summon just 7-A entity without fodder i vote foor him (It's just remove only one it's weakness), because it's would be many 7-A vs one.

But if he can't do it i can't really consider this possibility. These powerfull beings will be erased right after Rover eradicate fodder.


>Collectively, the army fought something Saber, Lancer, Rider, and GoB couldn't kill.

This fight against Gigantic Horror was offscreen and as i can saw from his ability he didn't have any aoe attack so he just use its tentacle to kill everyone from IH to escape, and this should be slower than just run around and spam AoE.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

>If he can summon just 7-A entity without fodder i vote foor him

None of IH is fodder. All of them fought with Caster's monster. Again, Caster's monster was more powerful than a group of 7-As comparable to Rider and GoB, and Rider was able to keep it at bay for a pretty decent amount of time. He'd be able to maintain it long enough to kill Rover.

Also, Rider can kill Rover by himself. I'm sort of just arguing how easily he can kill Rover, as with IH he can finish the match pretty quickly. He's already on Rover's level of power (at least we need to assume so as we don't have a number of Rover's AP), has supernatural luck, has intelligence that far exceeds that of Rover and is a cunning strategist, and has versatility with flight and his mounts.

Literally the only argument for Rover I've seen is "He spams projectiles and smashes because higher AP", which isn't even true considering the discussion we just had.

 

[Maraderchik]

>None of IH is fodder.

In this battle all soldier below 7-A is fodder. They can't withstand attack from 7-A enemy. Yes it's monster are more powerful than group of 7-A, because to take him down needed 6-C attack. He can keep it at bay because this thing have no means to obliterate huge amount of his troops at fast pace and not because they are strong or anything. You literally can't keep something at bay if this thing higher than you by one tier. And this thing was slow as shit, it's can't just swim to damn shore in 3 episode.

>Also, Rider can kill Rover by himself.

If he can harm him more than take back, sure.

Only one valid argument for Rider is his Supernatural luck and his superior intelligence. His fighting style is just going into melee and fight like a man, Sure he great strategist BUT it's most likely only for warfare, because he's damn commander. I mean his leadership skill by far above his individual strength.

>He's already on Rover's level of power (at least we need to assume so as we don't have a number of Rover's AP)

it's not only AP but also Durability.

>Literally the only argument for Rover I've seen is "He spams projectiles and smashes because higher AP", which isn't even true considering the discussion we just had.

I mean it's a great thing against many enemy, didn't you agree with that (That's for IH case)? Then Rover can bit him just like Garou(7-A) and starting chew or just shot him in point blank.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

In this battle all soldier below 7-A is fodder. They can't withstand attack from 7-A enemy. Yes it's monster are more powerful than group of 7-A, because to take him down needed 6-C attack. He can keep it at bay because this thing have no means to obliterate huge amount of his troops at fast pace and not because they are strong or anything. You literally can't keep something at bay if this thing higher than you by one tier. And this thing was slow as shit, it's can't just swim to damn shore in 3 episode.

Uh, yeah, they can withstand 7-A attacks. Fighting with a 7-A for an extended period of time kind of proves that. Rider only really needs to keep rover at bay for him or his 7-A summons to get good hits in and take down rover. Also, yes, it does have ways to obliterate lots of troops, you yourself stated it could swing its tentacles and kill masses of people. Speed is equalized, by the way.

His fighting style is just going into melee and fight like a man,

No, he summons lightning and rams his opponent on his mounts a lot. See his initial fight with Berserker. Also, he isn't going to be up and about around being honorable around a literal giant monster, that was only with opponents like Saber and Gil.

it's not only AP but also Durability.

The AP and Dura are equal in this case. The Dura situation is exactly the same for the same reasons as AP; we don't have numbers for Rover and can only assume he is "comparable" to Rider.

Then Rover can bit him just like Garou(7-A) and starting chew or just shot him in point blank.

Garou and the 7-A Hero's Association members are all baselines from what I'm aware of, as they get their tier from being vastly superior to City levels through scaling. Rover biting and shooting Rider would be like Rover trying to bite or shoot another Rover in terms of AP/Dura.

 

[Maraderchik]

>Also, yes, it does have ways to obliterate lots of troops, you yourself stated it could swing its tentacles and kill masses of people. Speed is equalized, by the way.

With several tentacle it took one damn fighter and how long it's take to obliterate thousands infantry with such attack?...

In the anime speed not equalized.

>Rover biting and shooting Rider would be like Rover trying to bite or shoot another Rover in terms of AP/Dura.

So where Rider on 7-A scale? Because Rover, Garou,Bang, Bomb and Elder Centipede all 7-A and Rover far above all of them (almost strongest in HA, probably besides GoldenSperm and Orochi)

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

> With several tentacle it took one damn fighter and how long it's take to obliterate thousands infantry with such attack?...

I believe it was around 6-10 minutes that the army held off the monster. That's more than enough time for Rider to kill Rover, I'll just state that again. He can kill Rover on his own, and if he has an entire army that could hold off a Monster stronger than Him and several other 7-A servants he just kills Rover rather easily.

I'll stress once again, Rider can bank on supernatural luck, avoid projectiles, and just ram in Rover repeatedly to win. The fact that we're debating weather or not he can kill rover with summons just extrapolates how decisive this victory is for Rider.

> So where Rider on 7-A scale? Because Rover, Garou,Bang, Bomb and Elder Centipede all 7-A and Rover far above all of them (almost strongest in HA, probably besides GoldenSperm and Orochi)

Mountain-Level Servants scale to a 385.11 megaton feat. Nearly four times baseline.

> In the anime speed not equalized.

In this match, it is. Meaning, the servants in I.H. will be moving just as fast as Rover and its attacks while being commanded by a master of battle strategy.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I vote for Rover FRA

What reasons?

Maraderchik has already admitted many of the reasons in their original vote aren't true, like the AP advantage. We're still discussing it and don't have a conclusion on their end as it stands, so I don't really know what you're FRA'ing.

 

[Maraderchik]

>I believe it was around 6-10 minutes that the army held off the monster. That's more than enough time for Rider to kill Rover, I'll just state that again. He can kill Rover on his own, and if he has an entire army that could hold off a Monster stronger than Him and several other 7-A servants he just kills Rover rather easily.

The only reason why his IH stand that long is only Gigantic Horror incapability to deal aoe damage. If he can just throw energy blast at will it's won't be that long. You never explain how Rider will handle enemy that can kill many people at once in high speed. I never arguing about capability of his strongest troops BUT i'm kinda sceptical about this, because Saber, Lancer, Rider, and the Gate of Babylon fight against Gigantic horror for 3 solid episode AND they all capable to held him while they all should be BELOW OR SIMILAR to Rider's elite troops.

Obviously even if Horror didn't kill the strongest he eradicate the weakest and freed himself. And there absolutely no reason that Rover can't do the same, most likely faster than Gigantic Horror because his AoE blasts. And this is my reason to don't take IH in Rider advantage.

>I'll stress once again, Rider can bank on supernatural luck

Can he dodge with it in point blank?

>In this match, it is. Meaning, the servants in I.H. will be moving just as fast as Rover and its attacks while being commanded by a master of battle strategy.

I mean why you even said about this match when i mentioned Gigantic Horror inability of AoE attack? It's not me who pointed out that Rider can stale him for solid 5-6 min. Again this thing can't go on the shore for 3 episode, can you tell it's a good thing against massive army?

>Maraderchik has already admitted many of the reasons in their original vote aren't true, like the AP advantage.

I didn't, we just haven't any solid calculation about OPM.

Let's see: GoldenSperm(Ōgon Seishi) probably 6-B (Tatsumaki failed in attempt to killing him)>Orochi most likely High 7-A>Rover>Bang+Bomb combined attack>Garou>Elder Centipede>Bomb>Bang, all of them above base line And with this scaling every next one significantly stronger than previous. So why do you think Rover doesnt' have AP/Dura advantage it's just mystery to me.

I still waiting some tactical or strategical move in Rider 1v1 fights.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I didn't, we just haven't any solid calculation about OPM.

Then for all intents and purposes they're baseline. There isn't really any two ways about it. Without a calc, you can't give me a solid reasons that Rover is near Rider's level past the fact that it's stronger than a bunch of baselines.

The only reason why his IH stand that long is only Gigantic Horror incapability to deal aoe damage. If he can just throw energy blast at will it's won't be that long. You never explain how Rider will handle enemy that can kill many people at once in high speed.

You're also not really explaining how Rover can fodderize an army that could handle fighting a 7-A as well. It's also pointless to argue the composition of Rider's army, as we are never given solid statistics and all we're really doing now is conjecture. We do know that it A) Has servants stronger than Rider B) Fought a beast vastly above a group of nearly 400 megaton characters for minutes on end.

They were able to sustain damage from something that's far outside of Rover's league, they don't even need to be able to deal with mass projectiles to kill Rover. And again, you're telling me an entire army, who has the aforementioned feats, can't take down one monster that's around Rider's level at best?

It's not me who pointed out that Rider can stale him for solid 5-6 min. Again this thing can't go on the shore for 3 episode, can you tell it's a good thing against massive army?

It doesn't matter how slow the thing IH fought because it doesn't make a difference in an equalized speed match. If anything Rover has to move more distance to attack due to its size, meaning Rover should actually be slower than all the servants in I.H.

I didn't, we just haven't any solid calculation about OPM.

Then you can't say Rover has an AP advantage, as scaling isn't exactly proof of that, especially against baselines who get their tier from fighting 7-Bs.

I still waiting some tactical or strategical move in Rider 1v1 fights.

This isn't a role-playing game, I don't have to say what moves Rider will make to win, just that he is more than capable of analyzing Rover's attacks and responding to them intelligently, something Rover has absolutely no capability of doing.

I don't know how often I need to keep on restating this. Rover is from a scaling chain that starts in 7-B. Rider straight up scales to a 7-A feat that is four times above baseline. The real thing that's making me wonder is how you're still trying to defend Rover's AP/Dura advantage with that in mind.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually, Rover didn't even kill most of the people you mentioned in its fights. The best argument you have is that its simply stronger, not leagues above as you've been advertising. Garou even survived direct hits from it.

At best it's two or three times over baseline, IDK even about that.

Also, Rider doesn't even need to get that close to Rover in IH, many of his soldiers have throwable spears and bows and arrows.

 

[Maraderchik]

>Garou even survived direct hits from it.




>Also, Rider doesn't even need to get that close to Rover in IH, many of his soldiers have throwable spears and bows and arrows.

And how many from this above or on pair with 7-A Dura? It's just laughable.


And again, i completely agree with fact that some individuals in IH can fight on pair with Rover or Rider BUT:

As it is maintained by the collective magical energy of the entire army, if a large portion of the army is destroyed, the Reality Marble will collapse.'
>It doesn't matter how slow the thing IH fought because it doesn't make a difference in an equalized speed match.

So Rider can handle 6-B being by himself just with speed equalized, i'm right?

>This isn't a role-playing game, I don't have to say what moves Rider will make to win, just that he is more than capable of analysing Rover's attacks and responding to them intelligently, something Rover has absolutely no capability of doing.

I'm asking you to prove his capability in strategic in 1v1, not from warfare if you claim that as one of his advantage. I didn't arguing his capability as commander:

Weaknesses: Rider abhors cheap tricks and prefers to face his foe head-on, and his actual martial prowess is not as pronounced as other Servants due to being a king first and a warrior second. He is fully willing to disclose his identity and is somewhat hot-blooded and fool-hardy at times.


>The real thing that's making me wonder is how you're still trying to defend Rover's AP/Dura advantage with that in mind.

Okay let's take a Bang as baseline, he can't harm Elder Centipede in any possible way just by himself, how much stronger Elder Centipede than him? Next, in cooperative attack with Bomb, who stronger than Bang they completely shattered Elder Centipede carapace, but their cooperative attack didn't flick Rover at all, can he be just x2 baseline? And this stated he one of the strongest monster from MA, which is Orochi, Ōgon Seishi and Psykos.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

If you look closely, Garou is still alive in that picture. Meaning he took hits and survived from something that, as you say, is completely out of his class. If Rover was actually four times/more than that his AP, he'd be a puddle of blood.

And how many from this above or on pair with 7-A Dura? It's just laughable.

Even if we say 1% of that attack came from 7-A servants, Rover's still getting hit with nearly a hundred 7-A attacks comparable, if not superior to its dura.

As it is maintained by the collective magical energy of the entire army, if a large portion of the army is destroyed, the Reality Marble will collapse.'

Rover isn't going to destroy the army before it gets pelted with over a hundred 7-A attacks. While some of the army might not be up to par with Rover, and I'll say this for the last time, they fought something well over Rider in AP for a decent amount of time. They at least have the dura to compensate, or the numbers to outlast Rover long enough for lethal attacks to hit.

I'm not saying Rover can't cause the Reality Marbel to demanifest. It just can't do it as easily as you're making it out to be, and even mere minutes are enough time for Rider to get in lethal damage with sheer numbers and his own NPs like Gordius Wheel, which nearly put down this guy in one hit.

So Rider can handle 6-B being by himself just with speed equalized, i'm right?

You aren't making much sense there, pal. Rover's 7-A, I'm talking about speed, and Rover has to move more distance to attack Rider due to size.

I'm asking you to prove his capability in strategic in 1v1, not from warfare if you claim that as one of his advantage. I didn't arguing his capability as commander:

Rider abhors cheap tricks and prefers to face his foe head-on, and his actual martial prowess is not as pronounced as other Servants due to being a king first and a warrior second.

He wouldn't try and act honorable around a mindless animal that's bloodlusted. Rider isn't that stupid, and watch his fight with the Sea Monster and Saber, he actively strategises his next moves and calculates how to defeat his opponents.

Also, see his interactions with Berserker. He's not above surprise attacks and underhanded tactics against mindless/merciless foes.

And this stated he one of the strongest monster from MA, which is Orochi, Ōgon Seishi and Psykos.

That whole chain of scaling doesn't amount to much considering the only OPM Calcs I see are city level. You can't say Rover is stronger than Rider because you don't have numbers for him. That's the end of that. No matter how many scaling chains you give me, none of them are calced feats, so Rover has no defined AP. Therefore, you can't say he's above Rider, as there is no proof in that than superiority over baselines who get their tier from being superior to City Levels.

My previous points of supernatural luck, maneuverability with his phantasms, and much higher intelligence still stands. He can trick and outsmart Rover with ease, as bloodlust doesn't make it any more smart.

Your arguments are only based around AoE attacks and a conjectured AP advantage that you frankly can't prove. Rider takes edges in nearly every other aspect, including speed due to Rover's size.

I'm not going to say much after this, I've made my points several times over and it isn't really sinking in.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Gotta say, I supported Rover to begin with, but Dargoo makes a good point, Maraderchik. And like he says, your points just real don't hold up. While Rover is beyond powerful, that is pretty confirmed, he has no numbers. And he is really, really dumb. That's really the end of that.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also, just want to point out, Rider ran over this guy like he was roadkill with Gordius Wheel.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I like your choice of video

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I like your choice of video

better than the dub

 

[Maraderchik]

>If you look closely, Garou is still alive in that picture. Meaning he took hits and survived from something that, as you say, is completely out of his class. If Rover was actually four times/more than that his AP, he'd be a puddle of blood.

Rover take hit from 5-B and still not a puddle of blood. Garou took hits twice to be in this state.

>You aren't making much sense there, pal. Rover's 7-A, I'm talking about speed, and Rover has to move more distance to attack Rider due to size.

Yea it's looks like you just misunderstood me i tried point out that if I.H such strong thing as you claim, Rider can overdo Gigantic Horror just by himself with it, just spread his troops and spam with long range attack, because it's enemy slow as shit and have no real means to deal with that many foes. 4 7-A Servant hold Gigantic Horror for 3 episode which is far more than Rider with his I.H, isn't it's make 4 7-A > than Rider's I.H?

And it doesn't really connected to this battle, but about whole I.H capability.


Well i think i said enough too, probably someday we saw properly calculated AP and Dura for Rover.

I still vote for Rover because:

1) AP/Dura advantage (even without properly calc it's looks like he far away from baseline.)

2) Rider I.H didn't really help that much. Most likely Rover take some damage from this but eventually he'd freed himself and this will be faster than Gigantic Horror.

3) Supernatural Luck can't help avoid point blank attack.

4) To trample your target with Gordius Wheel you need going into melee, it's not a range attack. It's a perfect chance for counterattack, and he can't outrun Rover if speed equalized.

I will change my opinion if, Rover AP will be calculated and it's will be on pair, slightly higher than Rider or lower than him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

> Rover take hit from 5-B and still not a puddle of blood. Garou took hits twice to be in this state.

"OPM verse is planet level dura because casual Saitama is 5-B"

No, just, no.

> it's enemy slow as shit and have no real means to deal with that many foes.

Rover might be able to bank on the latter, but Rover will actually be "slow as shit" in this match seeing as speed is equalized and it has to move more distance to attack due to size. Last time I'll say that.

I still vote for Rover because:

1) AP/Dura advantage (even without properly calc it's looks like he far away from baseline.)

Already said you can't prove that, but you can believe it even if its absolutely unsupported by anything. I could just as easily say "Rider looks like he's way above baseline because he was able to nearly defeat Lancelot in one hit, who scales from a 400 megaton feat" but I don't because I can't use that as evidence for a vote. Oh wait, Rider's already well above baseline just by scaling to a calced feat, whoops

2) Rider I.H didn't really help that much. Most likely Rover take some damage from this but eventually he'd freed himself and this will be faster than Gigantic Horror.

Nah, getting pounded by what is likely hundreds of 7-A attacks and Rider himself even for seconds will kill it.

3) Supernatural Luck can't help avoid point blank attack.

It's called dodging. You tend to do it before the attack is right next to your face. You could say "AOE attacks", I guess, but Rover alternates between that and physical/projectile attacks.

4) To trample your target with Gordius Wheel you need going into melee, it's not a range attack. It's a perfect chance for counterattack, and he can't outrun Rover if speed equalized.

Sadly Rover isn't intelligent enough to pull something like that, especially if Rider thinks about it for more than two seconds.

Yeah, he can outrun Rover seeing as, and I'll say this agai, Rover has to move more distance to attack/move its legs/et cetera. Equalized speed makes it

slower tha rider.
All in all, you can believe what you want, but just realize it's verifiably false. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, and hope people read through this thread before inevitably FRAing.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Come on everybody. Can't we all just agree that if these two met in canon, Rider would just tame Rover and have the sickest mount ever?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Apies

That.....take my kudo...you bastard..!!!

 

[Maraderchik]

>Nah, getting pounded by what is likely hundreds of 7-A attacks and Rider himself even for seconds will kill it.

Can you explain to me how these so-called "hundreds" 7-A's holds Gigantic Horror just for 6 min, while 4 7-A do it for around hour?

>It's called dodging. You tend to do it before the attack is right next to your face. You could say "AOE attacks", I guess, but Rover alternates between that and physical/projectile attacks.

You can call it dodging, but meaning behind this is still the same = didn't take hit.

>Sadly Rover isn't intelligent enough to pull something like that, especially if Rider thinks about it for more than two seconds.

He didnt need much of intelligence to just counterattack it's not something where you need intelligence, he can do it with his beast instinct.

@Apies, sure i agree if it's not bloodshed Rover it's gonna this way for sure.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Can you explain to me how these so-called "hundreds" 7-A's holds Gigantic Horror just for 6 min, while 4 7-A do it for around hour?

Insane Regen, also a High 7-A Excaliblast is what actually killed it. Tokiome actually nearly told Gil to use Ea, knowing that normal attacks from the servants would do jack. Also as you said, it was slowly moving to the shore; the servants weren't slowing it at all until Saber killed it.

Also Rider can't maintain a Reality Marble for hours on end.

You can call it dodging, but meaning behind this is still the same = didn't take hit.

You... do understand how supernatural luck works, right?

He didnt need much of intelligence to just counterattack it's not something where you need intelligence, he can do it with his beast instinct.

Using a very specific attack to counter something moving faster than Rover can move itself, coming from someone who is far more intelligent, no, it won't react the perfect way you think it will. Look at most of Rover's battles. It haphazardly explodes stuff and rams and bites enemies with no clear pattern.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also, I believe votes are

Rover - 3 (Mada, Johnny, Misterman) (Although Mister/Johnny's votes shouldn't be counted IMO, the AP advantage can't be proved)

Rider - 2 (Dargoo, Crimson)

 

[Maraderchik]

>You... do understand how supernatural luck works, right?

In short it's give you a chance to affect on reality and give you best outcome, for example your enemy stumbles while attacking you and miss. Something like this. If i'm not right correct me.

>Using a very specific attack to counter something moving faster than Rover can move itself

I check Rider profile and i didn't see any speed amplification, so there no reason why he would move faster.

>Insane Regen, also a High 7-A Excaliblast is what actually killed it.

Okay, i thought Gigantic Horror 6-B or something. Then it's even more mystery to me, how did hundreds of 7-A cannot fight against one of High 7-A. The difference it's about x10 or less, it's not be impossible to kill him in same way as Saber did.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

In short it's give you a chance to affect on reality and give you best outcome, for example your enemy stumbles while attacking you and miss. Something like this. If i'm not right correct me.

You're pretty spot-on. The phrase you said previously, I didn't understand. And while Rider's luck isn't that potent, I'd imagine he'd be able to avoid a large amount of Rover's attacks.

I check Rider profile and i didn't see any speed amplification, so there no reason why he would move faster.

There is.

Rover has to move its limbs a longer distance to attack him. I've said that like, what, five times now? It's like trying to swat a fly. The fly has to move two or three centimeters to dodge a swat, yet you have to move a foot or two to bring your hand down to swat it. Thankfully, you can move your arm fast enough to catch the fly by exerting it a little.

Now, equalize speed. The fly and you move at the same speed. The fly will be able to avoid you perfectly as it can cover several centimeters nearly a dozen times faster than you can cover several feet, as you are moving at the same speed.

Okay, i thought Gigantic Horror 6-B or something.

Yeah, no.

The difference it's about x10 or less, it's not be impossible to kill him in same way as Saber did.

Saber had to kill it by literally disintegrating it all at once. Even with an army of 7-As you can't kill something that large, that can regenerate that fast. Sure, the army can riddle it with spears, but it would just grow back any damage they do. Sadly, Rover doesn't have regen.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Rover has to move its limbs a longer distance to attack him. I've said that like, what, five times now? It's like trying to swat a fly. The fly has to move two or three centimeters to dodge a swat, yet you have to move a foot or two to bring your hand down to swat it. Thankfully, you can move your arm fast enough to catch the fly by exerting it a little.

Now, equalize speed. The fly and you move at the same speed. The fly will be able to avoid you perfectly as it can cover several centimeters nearly a dozen times faster than you can cover several feet, as you are moving at the same speed.

Is that how equalized speed works? That's weird, and not how I thought it was at all.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Meters/Your Speed = Seconds it takes to travel.

Let's say Character A moves at 2 m/s and Character B moves at 1 meters per second. Character A is much larger than Character B, therefore it has to move, say 2 meters to move its hand to the top of its head, whereas B has to move only 1 meter.

2/2 = 1 second.

1/1 = 1 second.

Now, equalize speed. Both now move at 1 mps, let's say.

2/1 = 2 seconds.

1/1 = 1 second.

Same happens if we do the mean, the higher end, as long as it's the same speed, Character B will always take less time to move its body as it needs to move less distance to move them. Large size is a disadvantage in equalized speed matches, at least where physical blows are necessary.

Sure, Rover can fire off energy beams, but it seems to try to melee as well, and if it does that, it'll be significantly slower than Rider, especially considering how Rider likes to get in close and ram his targets.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

 

[Maraderchik]

>There is.

Can you point it to me please, i didn't see where it is. Maybe i'm just not attentive enough.


>Now, equalize speed. The fly and you move at the same speed. The fly will be able to avoid you perfectly as it can cover several centimeters nearly a dozen times faster than you can cover several feet, as you are moving at the same speed.

Larger body cover more space with one's move, so it's easier to hit small object, especially if it's attacking you. You never miss mosquito that suck your blood. (If you're not Saitama)

This would work if Rider never attempt to attack in this fight. Anyway Rider not an Ant man, he's pretty damn big guy, in addition he's on Goridus Wheel.

And by the way main problem with catching fly isn't their speed but their movement pattern, humans usually didn't move like that.


>Saber had to kill it by literally disintegrating it all at once.

I thought she just kill Castr and this caused Gigantic Horror disappearance. I mean Caster pretty squishy guy isn't he, if you are 7-A you didn't need to put much power to kill him.

It can also be destroyed by killing Caster's Master, though this would only occur if he did not start absorbing humans to keep himself alive.
Nvm i check LN and see how it's goes, but i kinda confused with part where Caster had flashback and tears etc, i mean if she'd evaporate all thing at once how he had this sweet moments?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Can you point it to me please, i didn't see where it is. Maybe i'm just not attentive enough.

I was talking about what I wrote after that.

Larger body cover more space with one's move, so it's easier to hit small object, especially if it's attacking you. You never miss mosquito that suck your blood. (If you're not Saitama)

I literally did the math, and you're just confirming my point. It does cover more space, therefore it has to move more space. You can easily swat a mosquito because you're faster than it (and also a bunch of other factors like surprising it, its intelligence, whatever). If the mosquito was as fast as you, and more intelligent (cough animalistic Rover cough), it would easily outpace you. Although, I think you're looking too much into the analogy.

Nice meme, though.

I thought she just kill Castr and this caused Gigantic Horror disappearance. I mean Caster pretty squishy guy isn't he, if you are 7-A you didn't need to put much power to kill him.

Nope, Caster was in the monster, which was entirely disintegrated. It was discussed and shown in the fight, you should watch it.

 

[Maraderchik]

>I was talking about what I wrote after that.

Sadly but it's not speed amplification, it's just difference in size, and they still moe in same speed no matter what.

>I literally did the math, and you're just confirming my point. It does cover more space, therefore it has to move more space.

It doesn't work when one needed whole body to attack (and honestly i don't think it's even work like that(Rider's Gordius Wheel)), while another need just to swat his heed or pawn to counter this. Just think about fly with size same as your arm, why would you move your whole body to catch it?

I don't think you cover more space if you are smaller or bigger with speed equalization. You cover exactly same space. You just occupy less space by himself. If Ant man and Titan running with 1km with speed equalization, they're finish at the same time (if they had to start at same point). Only thing will change with body size difference is reach distance.

And finally Rover have Size Changing ability (not sure he'll use it, but if there an ability, there's a chance this ability will be used).

>Nope, Caster was in the monster, which was entirely disintegrated. It was discussed and shown in the fight, you should watch it.

Yea, i said it previous, i've check Light Novel and look at his last moment.

but i kinda confused with part where Caster had flashback and tears etc, i mean if she'd evaporate all thing at once how he had this sweet moments?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I'm pretty sure Rover's size manip is directly tied to his damage negation. As he takes damage, instead of being injured he just loses mass.

 

[Maraderchik]

I didn't see how Rover can take damage in webcomic, i mean, what damage caused his shrunk? He didn't even participate in fights on the surface.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The distance Rover has to move its limbs to attack is longer. Sure, a race would end the same, but it would have to cover more distance to move its jaw/limbs to try and hit Rider. I've given you mathematical and logical proof, and am amazed this hasn't sunk in yet.

Doesn't Rover get incapped/lose power if it shrinks enough? Rider still wins through skills and luck either way.

It was vaporized all at once; the monster was destroyed, then Caster was killed. Regardless this isn't relevent to the fight, and doesn't change how capable IH is at killing Rover.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Just to sum up:

> Rover objectively isn't stronger or more durable than Rider.

> Rider completely outclasses Rover in intelligence and skill.

> Rider has supernatural luck to help in avoiding projectiles, alongside his flight.

> Rider can summon an army than can last long enough to lethally damage Rover. He can also maneuver around and ram Rover with Gordius Wheel.

> Rover has to move more distance to hit Rider with physical attacks due to size, and is slower than Rider in combat speed due to the basic definition of speed itself considering equalization (distance/seconds).

Your arguments for Rover are looking fairly shallow now.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Your arguments for Rover are looking fairly shallow now.

FATILITY

 

[Maraderchik]

I already explain why i disagry all of this besides superior inelect and supernatural luck.

Difference in size probably will work if you never need to attack your opponent. And again, Rider not that small.

>Doesn't Rover get incapped/lose power if it shrinks enough?

No?

>and doesn't change how capable IH is at killing Rover.

Right, it's still incapable.

>It was vaporized all at once

My point here is, if you vaporize something all at once, there will be no Caster inside for crying and shit to begin with. And i didn't see why I.H or Gil didn't kill him before, not enough luck to hit Caster?

 

[John985]

Then where's the calc that says Rover is much stronger and durable than Rider?