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Our Stage Persona Rules Suck

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What if we make it so that stage personas are allowed, but only ones that differentiate from the actor? For example, AVGN could be considered a stage persona, but is so wildly different from his actor that he is basically a character. But Donald Trump in the WWE is basically just Donald trump, personality and all. Basically, a case-by-case basis.
 
Da3ggman said:
What if we make it so that stage personas are allowed, but only ones that differentiate from the actor? For example, AVGN could be considered a stage persona, but is so wildly different from his actor that he is basically a character. But Donald Trump in the WWE is basically just Donald trump, personality and all. Basically, a case-by-case basis.
Click to expand...
I'm cool with that.
 
I have spoken to Agnaa privately about our interpretations of where the line is drawn in terms of blending reality and fiction, so I don't know that us two would agree with where to draw that line. However, I agree that wrestlers portraying themselves is a significant factor, so removing those that use their real names is a start. I think that would ultimately come to include most of the verse, however.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I have spoken to Agnaa privately about our interpretations of where the line is drawn in terms of blending reality and fiction, so I don't know that us two would agree with where to draw that line. However, I agree that wrestlers portraying themselves is a significant factor, so removing those that use their real names is a start. I think that would ultimately come to include most of the verse, however.
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So in other words, no John Cena or Logan Paul, but the Undertaker or The Big Show are fair game possibly?
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I have spoken to Agnaa privately about our interpretations of where the line is drawn in terms of blending reality and fiction, so I don't know that us two would agree with where to draw that line. However, I agree that wrestlers portraying themselves is a significant factor, so removing those that use their real names is a start. I think that would ultimately come to include most of the verse, however.
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I will agree with you for as long as we can include Hulk Hogan on the wiki.

But, one question, isn't the presence of superhuman feats a qualifier that suggests they aren't their actual selves? Pretty sure the real Logan Paul isn't 9-A.
 
SlendVeny said:
I will agree with you for as long as we can include Hulk Hogan on the wiki.

But, one question, isn't the presence of superhuman feats a qualifier that suggests they aren't their actual selves? Pretty sure the real Logan Paul isn't 9-A.
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I will again refer to YouTube personalities having impossible feats. A mythos surrounding them isn't the qualifier, imo.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I will again refer to YouTube personalities having impossible feats. A mythos surrounding them isn't the qualifier, imo.
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Well there go my hopes and dreams for a Scott the Woz profile

Anyways, I'm leaning toward agreeing with Fuji here. I have no stake in this to begin with since I don't really scale verses with stage personas but imo they should be allowed on the wiki
 
No.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
So are we all on the same page here, where stage personas that do not reflect the actor's real life (eg; AVGN, the Undertaker, or Eric Andre) are fine to stay?
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I am personally not certain, but I am trying to be flexible since so many of our members seem to care so deeply about the wrestling pages.

We definitely do need to put strict safeguards in place to not ever allow real life people with some exaggerated personality traits and special effects though, such as show hosts. We cannot keep lessening our rules until we allow almost anything.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. If that is true I do not particularly mind if we keep the more prominent and blatantly fictionalised wrestling characters, as long as we are careful to install some safeguards against featuring Donald Trump or similar real world celebrities.

I think that @Agnaa had some suggestions in that regard.
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Can you give a few examples of the sort of pages that'd be okay under these rules? Because I think this seems like a fair compromise if my suggestions don't work out.
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Antvasima said:
Well, the wrestling characters that do not use their real names, or at least mainly have and use specific nicknames, and do not blend reality and fiction to a great degree basically.
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Antvasima said:
I am personally not certain, but I am trying to be flexible since so many of our members seem to care so deeply about the wrestling pages.

We definitely do need to put strict safeguards in place to not ever allow real life people with some exaggerated personality traits and special effects though, such as show hosts. We cannot keep lessening our rules until we allow almost anything.
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Here are my current viewpoints.
 
That's more or less what I was suggesting, where heavily fictionalized stage personas should be allowed:
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
So what Should we Allow?

Obviously, we still need standards, because this still edges a little close to pages we wouldn't allow. Here's a short list of
-Total ban on VS discussions, or any extension of "who would win" discussions regarding stage personas.
-Characters must have actually notable feats that go well beyond what the actor they're played by can do.
-Characters must have an original story or setting, one that isn't just a reflection of their real life.
Click to expand...
 
Haven't read this thread, posting my proposal from the WWE thread.

If there's any particular posts I need to read to get caught up with this one, let me know.

The rule against stage personas seems intended to disallow profiles that are for characters performed by the real-life equivalent of that character, and who either:
  1. Have little to no impact on the actual story of something with one (guest features on TV shows).
  2. Exist in a partially-fictionalised presentation (educational TV shows and YouTube videos, certain music videos).
 
Agnaa said:
Haven't read this thread, posting my proposal from the WWE thread.

If there's any particular posts I need to read to get caught up with this one, let me know.

The rule against stage personas seems intended to disallow profiles that are for characters performed by the real-life equivalent of that character, and who either:
  1. Have little to no impact on the actual story of something with one (guest features on TV shows).
  2. Exist in a partially-fictionalised presentation (educational TV shows and YouTube videos, certain music videos).
Click to expand...
Precisely.

Fujiwara proposed the following for the rules of stage personas:

So what Should we Allow?

Obviously, we still need standards, because this still edges a little close to pages we wouldn't allow. Here's a short list of
-Total ban on VS discussions, or any extension of "who would win" discussions regarding stage personas.
-Characters must have actually notable feats that go well beyond what the actor they're played by can do.
-Characters must have an original story or setting, one that isn't just a reflection of their real life.
Click to expand...
While it seems most people agree with the 2nd and 3rd proposals, there's a good portion of people (me included) who disagree in the first rule of banning stage personas from being in versus threads/discussions. I basically made a whole entire explanation about it in the first page.
 
Agnaa said:
The rule against stage personas seems intended to disallow profiles that are for characters performed by the real-life equivalent of that character, and who either:
  1. Have little to no impact on the actual story of something with one (guest features on TV shows).
  2. Exist in a partially-fictionalised presentation (educational TV shows and YouTube videos, certain music videos).
Click to expand...
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
So what should we allow?

Obviously, we still need standards, because this still edges a little close to pages we wouldn't allow. Here's a short list of
-Total ban on VS discussions, or any extension of "who would win" discussions regarding stage personas.
-Characters must have actually notable feats that go well beyond what the actor they're played by can do.
-Characters must have an original story or setting, one that isn't just a reflection of their real life.
Click to expand...
These seem to be the current suggestions, which I think seem reasonable, although if characters do not break the other rules, meaning if they are much closer to fiction than reality, I do not personally mind if versus matches are created for them.
 
Not familiar with WWE, but would this mean that some of the profiles there that don't meet the proposed conditions will need to go? Asking out of curiosity.

Either way, the proposed rules are good. I don't think completely banning them from VS threads is necessary, just like what the others said.
 
QrowBarr said:
Not familiar with WWE, but would this mean that some of the profiles there that don't meet the proposed conditions will need to go? Asking out of curiosity.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is correct.
 
The "YouTube videos" part is modified by "educational", same as "TV shows" is, and is just the second of three examples. Those examples aren't exhaustive. Perhaps they should have "such as" added. Since they're not meant to be gamed by people going "Um, actually, it only says YouTube videos, not Vimeo videos, so this review series hosted there should get profiles".

There are YouTubers playing fictional characters within fictional verses, but those are not partially-fictionalized, so they won't be hit by that rule regardless.
 
No we wouldn't.

I don't think that anyone that can understand our wiki's rules, and is engaging sincerely, would need a detailed explanation of what a "partially-fictionalized educational series" is, when put into the context of stage persona rules.

We don't need to define every single term that we use. That reads like trying to game the system by creating loopholes to work around later. When instead you could see the examples that people bring up in these threads and easily know what's being talked about.
 
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