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OPM Downgrades

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this is getting off topic.

the original point of this thread was to downgrade boros to just high 6-A. and downgrade saitama to high 6-A, possibly 5-B.

i disagree because of the following reasons:

boros should have the "possibly 5-B" rating because there are literally THREE official sources that says boros could bust the earth. this might be a retcon, but im not sure. regardless of the reason, we cant just ignore three official sources like that. so "high 6-A, possibly 5-B" should be fine.

saitama should be a solid 5-B because there is literally NOTHING contradicting 5-B saitama. murata said that saitama could destroy earth, and saitama says he could destroy the earth in the webcomic. saitama doesnt need to scale to boros to be 5-B (obviously).

cell is 4-B because of purely statements, despite having ZERO 4-B scaling or feats, saitama should be treated the same way. if im missing something or wrong about something, please inform me.
 
so saitama is a solid 5-B?

and boros is possibly 5-B?

thats LITERALLY what we already have right now. shouldnt this thread be closed then?
 
@Jonathan

I'm saying YOU BEING ON SITE IS NOT VALIDATES YOU KNOWING SCALING, IT'S YOUR ARGUMENTS, REASONING, and KNOWLEDGE OF THE VERSE YOU're DISCUSSING.

I'm not saying you don't know scaling. If that's what I implied then I am sorry. But so many people say the same thing only to be agressive and uncooperative wheb they don't get their way.
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
I believe we may also give Saitama a High 6-A lowball though
Click to expand...
why though?

if cell can be a solid 4-B because of purely statements, why cant we do the same for saitama? keep in mind that cell has zero 4-B feats, nor does he scale to anyone who is 4-B.

if im not wrong, isnt this the exact same situation with saitama? saitama has zero 5-B feats, nor does he scale to anyone who is 5-B (maybe except boros), but since we have statements, shouldnt he be a solid 5-B?

am i missing something? can someone explain? just a little curious
 
We can talk about Cell later, but it's because the High 6-A feat came from him, and then possibly 5-B via statements
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
We can talk about Cell later, but it's because the High 6-A feat came from him, and then possibly 5-B via statements
Click to expand...
i just think its unfair that cell gets to be a solid 4-B via statements, yet saitama is only "possibly 5-B", via statements. what differentiates cell and saitama in this situation?
 
we literally have statements saying that saitama is 5-B. why are we ignoring them? if we have official statements that says that a character is a certain tier, and nothing contradicts those statements, those characters should be allowed to be that tier.

based on this logic, shouldnt cell be "at least high 4-C, possibly 4-B"

and saitama "at least high 6-A, possibly 5-B"
 
I'm neutral regarding what Saitama's teir should be, but I'm leaning on keeping it the way it is; 5-B and possibly higher seems fair due to WoG statements.

I also think we should drop the Cell topic; DBZ revisions threads have been done to death and are pretty much a banned topic outside of staff discussion.
 
Regarding the Cell thing, if people really want to question it, it's because it's easier than having people constantly bitch about him being "only" large star level. We're pretty ******* generous with DB, despite the people who cry about High Multiversal Goku and omnipotent Zen'o and then say we're downplayers.

Regarding the actual topic, you guys do whatever you want. I have no real opinion, at the moment.
 
Wow o_O. Azzy with that passive-agressiveness lol jk. But seriously, that was unexpected. Not unwelcome, but unexpected.
 
If you mean regarding the Cell thing, yes. People used to be obscenely annoying about this.

The OPM thing I genuinely don't have an opinion on. lol
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Regarding the Cell thing, if people really want to question it, it's because it's easier than having people constantly bitch about him being "only" large star level. We're pretty ******* generous with DB, despite the people who cry about High Multiversal Goku and omnipotent Zen'o and then say we're downplayers.
Regarding the actual topic, you guys do whatever you want. I have no real opinion, at the moment.
Click to expand...
A reminder that OBD has Super Vegito at "At least Star level+" and "Likely Relativistic" speed. And they technically are right that we shouldn't jump tiers through powerscaling.
 
Yeah, we're likely gonna have to go over another round of DBZ powerscaling... Especially with that speed downgrade and my future multiplier thread.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
A reminder that OBD has Super Vegito at "At least Star level+" and "Likely Relativistic" speed. And they technically are right that we shouldn't jump tiers through powerscaling.
Click to expand...
I agree, jumping tiers through powerscaling would keep stacking until everybody is universe level without any feats.
 
I won't allow Cell and the characters above him to be downgraded as he has an entire thread made to confirm that his statement is indeed true.
 
Dark649 said:
I won't allow Cell and the characters above him to be downgraded as he has an entire thread made to confirm that he is statement is indeed true.
Click to expand...
You mean Fan's blog? With due respect it's of very poor quality and shouldn't be used as reference for proof
 
The real cal howard said:
Especially with that speed downgrade and my future multiplier thread.
Click to expand...
I agree with the speed downgrade, but not for the ap downgrade and the multiplier threads came mainly from the databook as the original series does not mention this thing.
 
I honestly don't agree with downgrading Cell. There's really nothing to suggest he was lying about that, he has no reason to lie about that and we have all those guidebook sources confirming this.

If people are fine with using these OPM things for Saitama, there shouldn't be a reason to not use them for Cell. OPM's issue is we have a statement contradicting the other ones, reducing it to a possibility. Cell has no case like that.

Also SSJ Vegito only being 100x base Frieza sounds kinda ridiculous honestly. I'm sure some of the Kaioken multipliers make that unable to be the case.
 
@dark649

yeah, but thats the thing. STATEMENTS. not feats, not powerscaling. but STATEMENTS.

i thought feats>statements. cell's apparent "solar system" feat left like a 20 m crater on the ground. solar system af, amirite?

but screw the fact that cell has zero powerscaling or feats that puts him on that level.

yet we have characters like saitama, where people like "JSW" is trying to downgrade him to high 6-A just because "statements aren't enough". well they sure as hell were enough for cell to jump from high 4-C to 4-B, which is a pretty ******* big jump. why are we treating some characters differently than others.

i dont care what that blog says, the bottom line is. cell has ZERO feats or powerscaling that puts him on 4-B. and yet hes 4-B because of one statement. but we cant do the same for saitama. why?
 
@Ryu

Pretty sure what some people are upset about is that Cell's statement is taken as "he had no reason to lie or be hyperbolic, so it must be true", whereas Saitama saying sometging (later supported by the creator) is "well, he only said it, so it's not reliable".
 
@Cal The same way DB characters can intentionally blow up planets or restrict themselves to only bust cities or punching bags if they wish.
 
It should be noted that although Akira Toriyama is listed as the author for all of the Daizenshuu, he actually had very little involvement with the production of their content, if any at all. Toriyama makes it quite clear in most of his Daizenshuu introductions that "they" (Shueisha) are responsible for putting these together, and he is often graciously humble in thanking them for all their hard work in sorting through his exhaustive series.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/databook/daizenshuu/

Not sure if this is the right place to post this
 
The real cal howard said:
That and well...how would Cell know how much ki/power would it take to destroy the Solar System?
Click to expand...
yeah, and honestly, i feel like the only reason why cell said he would destroy the solar system is to demonstrate that he got a lot stronger from the zenkai boost, and that hes a serious threat. thats literally the only reason. toriyama wanted the readers to feel really hyped or whatever, since "planet busting" doesnt sound very impressive. lets not forget that the crater that was left was the size of a ******* atom compared to a solar system.

this is the size of a solar system btw.
 
@Jonathan You are being incredibly hypocritical right now. You constantly disagreed with and got mad with people for using AoE arguments to downplay OPM. But now you're perfectly fine with doing the exact same thing with Cell and are making these arguments over and over.
 
@ryu

nobody said that vegito isnt 4-B. we're talking about cell.

and why do you keep saying that the statements are contradicted in OPM. theres absolutely nothing that contradicts 5-B saitama statements.
 
I know, but daizenshuu should be disregarded if where contradicts the manga. However Cell's solar system busting isn't contradicted so that's ok. As for GT, both are non canon so it doesn't matter

I guess this thread should be locked now, this is turning into a dragon ball thread
 
@Jonathan Matt brought up OBD's 4-C Vegito, but it seems he doesn't agree with that.

And I'm talking about Boros with the contradictory statement mostly.
 
cell had no reason to lie about blowing up the solar system?

well saitama had no reason to lie about blowing up earth . yet we ignore that statement from saitama but worship the statement from cell.

and on top of that, we have murata saying that saitama could blow up earth. but lets ignore that too cuz "statements are unreliable unless we have feats".
 
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