Oni God Ram vs Demon Slayer Yoriichi

[VortechsTG]

I don't think so, but apparently Ram has copied incredibly difficult and complicated techniques from people who have thousands of years of experience (on account of eating people and taking all their skill + experience), at least based on what I've seen in this thread. If you want scans you'd have to ask an RZ supporter.

More like an advanced technique for a shinobi who all undergo torturous training and rituals that kill almost all of them. Saying she's copying the technique of someone with thousands of years of experience isn't entirely correct because it's doubtful multiple of the people he ate had that technique. But it's still an insanely high level technique.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

more like he will slash them all away because he actually can then he slahses her along the way and wins, why would he just run into a wall of sharp wind blades?

Dont know how many times would I need to repeat my counter arguement to your counter argument to my argument.
Ley Batenkaitos ans Ram both have everything you showed and more and srill can't sense the wind blades. Firstly, before i even get into it said person who was gonna murder rengoku with "0 intent" were a bunch of amateurs who Rengoku instinctively reacted to by sensing a threat in his sleep. Thats an ESP feat and again no matter how good your ESP is, its utterly useless against something a layer above it.
Elsa can pinpoint another persons vitals while having all of her senses cut off and in a state of incomprhension of her own exustence due to shamak who Ley Batenkaitos and Ram massiveky upsxale from and neither of them could sense the invisible blades. They can sense hostility, aura, mana, all of the 5 basic senses to an extraordinary degree, already have multiple feats of dealing with invisible attacks and still couldnt detect it

 

[Passersby]

Dont know how many times would I need to repeat my counter arguement to your counter argument to my argument.
Ley Batenkaitos ans Ram both have everything you showed and more and srill can't sense the wind blades.

this was my conversation with zabzab, where i proved yoriichi has way better senses and thus can actually sens the wind blades, and they do not have everything showed and more unless of course you tell me why and how they do

Firstly, before i even get into it said person who was gonna murder rengoku with "0 intent" were a bunch of amateurs who Rengoku instinctively reacted to by sensing a threat in his sleep. Thats an ESP feat and again no matter how good your ESP is, its utterly useless against something a layer above it.

and you ignored this

it's a pretty simple explanation

1 invisible attacks are as such because they can't be sensed
2 a character who can sens invisible attacks normally couldn't sens another one
3 the character senses aren't strong enough to sens this invisible attack



yoriichi has far better senses, so he can most likely sens or "see" the attack, that simple

unless there is somehow a loop or a fallacy in this logic, this stands correct

the "layer" you're speaking of here is thus by following simple logic is just having better senses

and it's not like them being amateurs makes a difference

Elsa can pinpoint another persons vitals while having all of her senses cut off and in a state of incomprhension of her own exustence due to shamak

still can't beat someone fighting a way more skilled opponent while unconscious
and that's zenitsu and sanemi

who Ley Batenkaitos and Ram massiveky upsxale from and neither of them could sense the invisible blades. They can sense hostility, aura, mana, all of the 5 basic senses to an extraordinary degree, already have multiple feats of dealing with invisible attacks and still couldnt detect it

multiple feats that are inferior in quality to sensing an attack with zero intent while in a state of deep sleep, making rengoku's senses far above theirs

 

[Fezzih_007]

Isn't Fake Rainbow explicitly an afterimage technique? It's not a substitution jutsu type thing where you can just avoid damage, you dance in a specific way and it creates afterimages to confuse your opponents - implying they wouldn't be hitting you to begin with, they'd be hitting the afterimages.

I mean yeah, If a wind thing is in front of him, he gonna use Fake rainbow to attack from a different direction, after getting hit.

I din't mean Fake Rainbow is like Blake Semblace, i mean like, he gonna sense or get hit by the wind Blade, he gonna bê like "oh, ok" and Fake rainbow to Go attack from a different direction.

More like an advanced technique for a shinobi who all undergo torturous training and rituals that kill almost all of them. Saying she's copying the technique of someone with thousands of years of experience isn't entirely correct because it's doubtful multiple of the people he ate had that technique. But it's still an insanely high level technique.

True.

Dont know how many times would I need to repeat my counter arguement to your counter argument to my argument.

You did like, just two times? That's not too many times.

So this whole argument is just to say that the wind Blade have layered invisibilty, which i can debunk when i reach my Pc. But for now, les't just nitpick some stuff. I kinda hate myself for being the first person to use layered invisibilty in a Ré:ZERO versus thread.

Firstly, before i even get into it said person who was gonna murder rengoku with "0 intent" were a bunch of amateurs who Rengoku instinctively reacted to by sensing a threat in his sleep.

Not sure why you put quotation marks since the text explicty stated that the child have no evil aura to Rengoku to sense, and he could anyway.
And why being amateurs would matter in that situation? He put to sleep, and couldn't move because of the blood art, not sure If being a professional killers would matter here.

Elsa can pinpoint another persons vitals while having all of her senses cut off and in a state of incomprhension of her own exustence due to shamak

Subaru shamak is not that potent trought, she still have some senses.

They can sense hostility, aura, mana, all of the 5 basic senses to an extraordinary degree

They can sense senses?

 

[Zabazab]

yoriichi has

• way better adaptibility
• way better accelerated development
• way better information analysis
• way better skills
• way better battle intelligence

ley doesn't hold a singke candle to yoriichi in these departments, he never did, he completely loses out in these departments and so does ram

Dynas: "Shut up, shut up, shut up! You don't know anything about me, you damned momster!"

Dynas' sword strikes grew sharper as he erupted with rage. But Batenkaitos evaded easily, as if he knew his moves well― No, it was as if he had known them for years.

At that point, Otto had no choice but to acknowledge it. There was no more room for doubt.

Otto: "This is the Authority of Gluttony, which consumes people's Names!"

The inexplicable impression Gaston had of Batenkaitos was accurate.

The techniques born of a lifetime of training and experience that Batenkaitos had acquired had come from eating the memories of others, all to increase the contents of his repertoire.

And that was not the end of ghe damage caused by Gluttony's Authority.

Past and present, east and west, chewing the experts of all kinds of master arts, demonstrating abilities that were, quite literally, from “every single kind of martial arts” was the Sin Archbishop of Gluttony, Ley’s fighting strength―― or perhaps, it should be called his ability to respond. It had attained preeminence, a remarkable difference of unleashing optimal techniques of the highest peak each moment to the next.

Subaru: “If efforts and the training both are encompassed in the Memories, then…” Though it was quite hateful, perhaps Gluttony did not even have a need “pull things out” consciously.

When they would come to notice, the body would have body already moved, that was the kind of Authority it was, of pulling them out in all kinds of scenes.

――The stolen Memories even included the experience points of the physical body.

Accompanying the chant, a sound of freezing space echoed from her rear. Countless ice stakes with sharp tips were born in the air, signifying they were ready to be fired.

Gazing at that, Ley’s composure, yet, remained unchanged. With no strong feelings for that, she merely commenced the offensive abiding by her frozen fighting spirit.

“――――”

The count of the ice stakes being fired was close to, but no greater than, a hundred.

Submerging the aisle seemingly constructed of stone, the dust of the ice which had impacted the floor, the walls, the ceiling fluttered about, the space frozen white bringing immense damage upon the one who taken that immense hit. However――

Ley: “Sorry, onee-san. We’re tired of seeing that… Is something we won’t say, but we’ve seen it. See, because we are genius after aaall, we don’t think an attack that has already been seen once will hit!”

Swinging the daggers fastened to both his hands, Ley laughed, having outdone the terrific attack of ice.

She inhaled in astonishment, witnessing his talent and skill, and having withstood and outdone it as a matter of fact, as he stood completely unwounded. However, if he had outdone it once, then twice, thrice, even more if that still did not work.

Ley: “You’re thinking you’ll be able to win if you do it a hundred times? It won’t reach even after you do it a thousand times, you know?”

Declaring with apparent disgust, Ram twisted her frame as her elbow rebuff drilled into the air.

Slashed upon touch, broke bones upon striking, a fearsome technique which pierced even into the insides, this was being performed lacking all frugality, as she fired a chain of strikes utilizing all of her limbs.

These were not moves governed by simply physical ability or technique.

Had it been brought forth by pure finesse, then Batenkaitos, who reconstructed all kinds of techniques of the past and the present, of east and west, relying on the Memories of eaten opponents, could have surely dealt with it.

The monster given rise to by Ram, in the final stage―― his ability and strength, was immense and overwhelming.

He possessed no hesitancy. He possessed no restraints in what he hauled out. He possessed no awareness that he was losing himself. Yet, never did he sunder his form, from that of Ram’s precious other half.

Heedless of the moon and the sun being obscured, darkness had painted Gluttony with flawless perfection.

In other words, they were transcendental beings, from the kinds of enigmatic persons, eccentric persons, and deranged persons.

Impossible to be matched by ordinary humans, they remained unfinished by the mere virtue of being themselves as well; being blended together with all possible kinds of Memories within Gluttony, they had been finished into articles of greater superlativeness.

What would be the consequence should Neiji Rockhardt obtain Beli Heinelga’s endurance and Dorkell’s ability of phantom teleportation?

It would be, the fruition of a singular brutal, fiendish, atrocious existence seldom seen throughout time.

Until now and amongst all of what yesterday had held, the Sin Archbishop of Gluttony, Ley Batenkaitos had not achieved that.

For within the grand hotpot named his self, by blending all probable kinds of Memories together, he feared the very existence named himself being taken into the hotpot.

However, even if he were to drink up the contents of the mixed hotpot, he would not be taken in―― at the very least, that was what Batenkaitos’s notion had come to be.

And since it had come to be so, he experimented what all he had never ventured to do until now, possessing not the slightest of qualms or hesitance for breaking the established bounds of his own self.

For the Gourmet who ate every possible kind of excelling, transcending talent, history, potentiality in this world, utterly―― all until the very horizons of “gourmet delicacies”, persisting in amassing it all within oneself, was precisely whom Ley Batenkaitos was.

Thus, on this day, what was born in the Tower situated at the eastern edge of the world, was a Warlock agglutinated with every technique and odd talent, regardless of heredity and posteriori.

The Warlock possessed arms which destroyed all, possessed a flesh body which did not take damage from any type of attacks, possessed magical arts which rejected and countered any possible technique, and was endowed with even the wisdom, genius and intellect to grasp everything that existed.

No matter how extensive a survey should be taken of history, never had there been a being who excelled in every single kind of ability to this extent, and neither would any other take birth hereafter, for thousands of years to come.

This, was a selection of the world’s possibilities, brought forth by the abominable calamity referred to as a Witch Factor.

Born from the grand hotpot which condensed solely excelling articles, the supreme “Gourmet Delicacy” itself――

Ram: “――You shall be given three chances.”

With that rare existence before her, the young girl with pink-colored hair uttered with three fingers raised.

yoriichi has far better senses, so he can most likely sens or "see" the attack, that simple

unless there is somehow a loop or a fallacy in this logic, this stands correct

the "layer" you're speaking of here is thus by following simple logic is just having better senses

and it's not like them being amateurs makes a difference

You are misunderstanding the concept of layered hax.

No amount of upscaling from another character's ESP will ever reach another layer- an extra layer of ESP can only ever come from being able to sense sonething invisible even to those who can sense invisible things.

Yoriichi must have a feat of sensing something unsensable even to those who can sense the unsensable: otherwise he cannot sense it. That is what a layer is.

still can't beat someone fighting a way more skilled opponent while unconscious
and that's zenitsu and sanemi

This is just instinctive action + possibly ESP. It isn't as impressive as accurately hitting vitals from a distance while your senses are sealed by a power that you're explicitly weak to.

 

[Epiccheev]

I'm leaning towards Ram tbh

 

[Fezzih_007]

Why you guys discussing Ley vs Yorichi now? Like, Ram don't even fully scale to Ley in skill anyway.

 

[Zabazab]

Why you guys discussing Ley vs Yorichi now? Like, Ram don't even fully scale to Ley in skill anyway.

Ram's technique of wearing the wind allows her to mostly nullify Ley's massive skill & experience advantage.

 

[Passersby]

we talked about this before

i don't know what kind of "transcending talents" ley ate, but Yoriichi made a power system that gave impetus to human evolution as soon as he started fighting, he made a sword style no one could even learn even with him there actively teaching them how to learn it and kokushibo, the seocnd most talented in the series took longer to learn an inferior version of what he is capable of which is the moon breathing and even that was the same as since nobody was able to learn that Breathing Style either , He is the best swordsman that the Demon Slayer Corps had in a 1000 years history with him being far above said Kokushibo even after he trained for 500 years as a demon who doesn't sleep and is obsessed with surpassing him,

his talent is considered to be downright divine by the characters who know him and kokushibo is no exeption as he described as the sun to which every human would want to touch but could only writh on the ground and turn to dust in despair because they never and never will, himself included even when he himself is a genius whose sword style could never be passed down for the same reason as yoriichi's sword style, no matter how much battle experience ley absorbed and the techniques he merged, i don't know where he scales in terms of info analysis adaptibilty and talent compared to yoriichi

merging techniques?

even tanjiro is able to merge the hinokami kagura dance with the water breathing to create an entire new fighting style to deal with the situation he was in and he was proficient in neither, let alone yoriichi who not only made all the breathing styles, he is more than likely proficient in all of them and he scales way above tanjiro in basically everything

Kokushibo made a sword style that cannot be passed down to Anyone the same the reason the sun breathing couldn't be passed down, that alone makes him a "transcend talent" and yoriichi is so far above him he literally called him the unequal sun that could never be reached and his envy turned to obsession that followed him for the 500 years he trained to surpass him as a being that doesn't need food water nor sleep and died in regret as he realized everything he did was meaningless

Yoriichi is a genius swordsmans tactician and a genius teacher, he singlehandedly made a golden era for the demon hunters he is the
Progenitor of an entire branch of fighting styles tailor made to suit the pillars at the time and created a generation that remained unsurpassed for the next 500 years after being in a 500 year old organization for less than 7 years he has a talent that never existed prior nor did it exist ever again after he died

I very much doubt if he ever even ate someone with that level of ability, even if we assume yoriichi isn't good at martial arts key would simply a jack of all trades while yoriichi is a master of one

Ley would need way more feats than just that to even be on the same level here

you're really just repeating this and i don't see how that disproves what i said in any way?

yoriichi still has better adaptibility battle intelligence accelerated development information analysis and i am again a broken record

You are misunderstanding the concept of layered hax.
No amount of upscaling from another character's ESP will ever reach another layer- an extra layer of ESP can only ever come from being able to sense sonething invisible even to those who can sense invisible things.

Yoriichi must have a feat of sensing something unsensable even to those who can sense the unsensable: otherwise he cannot sense it. That is what a layer is.

....so in this case a" layered invisible attack" is an invisible attack that bypasses a character who can sense invisible attacks's senses because said senses are not good enough
exactly what i said

you just worded it differently and you have not even addressed why i'm wrong
you just said i am because i am

This is just instinctive action + possibly ESP. It isn't as impressive as accurately hitting vitals from a distance while your senses are sealed by a power that you're explicitly weak to.

having your senses sealed means nothing to a character with ESP as that is not sealed, and they are conscious, these are characters who are literally unconscious and even in a state of deep sleep yet still can react to attacks even when they have zero intent behind them


i bleive it's not hard to see which one is better here

 

[Zabazab]

you're really just repeating this and i don't see how that disproves what i said in any way?

It's not disproving Yoriichi's skill feats, it's showing that Ley's skill is simply of a far greater scale. "The greatest genius in a thousand years" vs "The greatest genius in all of history", "Merging two techniques" vs "Merging thousands of techniques". It's simply the matter of it being the difference between a genius and an extraordinary genius.

so in this case a" layered invisible attack" is an invisible attack that bypasses a character who can sense invisible attacks's senses because said senses are not good enough
exactly what i said

you just worded it differently and you have not even addressed why i'm wrong
you just said i am because i am

This is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how layered hax works. Having superior ESP =/= having layered ESP. I've explained what layering is and why it's different from upscaling. I'm not going to address this anymore.

having your senses sealed means nothing to a character with ESP as that is not sealed, and they are conscious, these are characters who are literally unconscious and even in a state of deep sleep yet still can react to attacks even when they have zero intent behind them

Subaru has ESP and he was completely unable to act when he had Shamak cast on him. Random nobody knights can sense presences and hostility, yet they cannot act while under Shamak's power.

 

[VortechsTG]

I feel like the same arguments just keep getting tread on despite being clearly explained so at this point without anything more to be said I'm voting Ram fra.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I feel like Yochirii have way better wincons, like the AttackP, speed amp and stamina, so i voting yorichii fra.

Unless i remember something else Ram can do here, besides windcage, which is supergood.

 

[Passersby]

It's not disproving Yoriichi's skill feats, it's showing that Ley's skill is simply of a far greater scale. "The greatest genius in a thousand years" vs "The greatest genius in all of history", "Merging two techniques" vs "Merging thousands of techniques". It's simply the matter of it being the difference between a genius and an extraordinary genius.

he is the greatest genius in all history, at least from what's seen in the verse and i'm pretty sure you just ignored everything i stated about why he scales above him in terms of talent and sword skills

there is also no "extraordinary genius" for combat talent and skill that was given to him for his knowledge accross multiple feilds

plus that's tanjiro, who scales below muichiro, who scales below kokushibo, who scales below yoriichi and straighted up called him the unequal sun

This is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how layered hax works. Having superior ESP =/= having layered ESP. I've explained what layering is and why it's different from upscaling. I'm not going to address this anymore.

i'm not either

Subaru has ESP and he was completely unable to act when he had Shamak cast on him. Random nobody knights can sense presences and hostility, yet they cannot act while under Shamak's power.

i wonder if they could react to an attack with zero intent behind it if they are in a unconscious and put under a deep sleep and dreaming a dream specifically made for them to not wake up from

 

[Passersby]

anyways, let's stop this, i am tired

voting yoriichi fra

ram is going to have more votes anyways

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ngl, should choose sanemi instead, because they both use wind.

 

[Passersby]

Ngl, should choose sanemi instead, because they both use wind.

sanemi loses

yoriichi wins due to better everything exept AP which he counters

 

[Fezzih_007]

Would actually be fair trought.

Like, i not sure what Ram can even do against this.

• Battle Spirit (Overwhelming Aura that causes the opponent fear and paralysis with them feeling the air getting heavier, and can even cause internal bleeding and external lacerations)

Besides pulling herself togheter, because of her pride, and her sister being there, so she need to protect her.

 

[Passersby]

.

Would actually be fair trought.

Like, i not sure what Ram can even do against this.

• Battle Spirit (Overwhelming Aura that causes the opponent fear and paralysis with them feeling the air getting heavier, and can even cause internal bleeding and external lacerations)

Besides pulling herself togheter, because of her pride, and her sister being there, so she need to protect her.

..wait, she doesn't resist that?

 

[VortechsTG]

.

..wait, she doesn't resist that?

She does. Might not be on her profile though. Fezzih never has any damn clue what he's talking about.

 

[Passersby]

She does. Might not be on her profile though. Fezzih never has any damn clue what he's talking about.

yeah, that makes much more sens

then sanemi loses

 

[Fezzih_007]

She does. Might not be on her profile though.

Is not on the profile, so she don't resist yet. Like, even if she have a feat of resisting that, is not on the profile, so i not gonna say that she can.

Fezzih never has any damn clue what he's talking about.

Yeah okay man, i don't have any clue what I talking about, you are 100% correct.
I never know anything. True true.

Lmao, you very amusing.

 

[VortechsTG]

Yeah okay man, i don't have any clue what I talking about, you are 100% correct.
I never know anything. True true.

Lmao, you very amusing.

Well, I shouldn't have phrased it that way. You know stuff. You just choose to purposely ignore it to shit on ReZero characters.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Well, I shouldn't have phrased it that way. You know stuff.

That's okay, I recognize that i sometimes don't look like i know stuff.

You just choose to purposely ignore it to shit on ReZero characters.

I disagree, but okay.
Don't remember a time when i did that

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

That's okay, I recognize that i sometimes don't look like i know stuff.

I disagree, but okay.
Don't remember a time when i did that

Everytime Fezzih enters an ReZero discussion be like:

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I dont think i did but let me know if i missed anybody's votes

 

[Zabazab]

I dont think i did but let me know if i missed anybody's votes

Already explained why I think Ram takes it, so you can count me.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Everytime Fezzih enters an ReZero discussion be like:

If you make matches with Subaru, i would vote for him 98% of the times, because i kinda biased towards him.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I dont think i did but let me know if i missed anybody's votes

Did you vote? I think the OP need to vote too, If he wants his vote to count.

 

[Passersby]

Lesson learned : skill debates suck

I'm never debating skill ever again unless I'm up against a character guaranteed to lose in skill


I'll still defend my boy yoriichi's skills and talents with my life tho

 

[Fezzih_007]

Is not that bad actually, it depend on who you arguing against.

Lesson learned : skill debates suck

I'm never debating skill ever again unless I'm up against a character guaranteed to lose in skill


I'll still defend my boy yoriichi's skills and talents with my life tho

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Lesson learned : skill debates suck

I'm never debating skill ever again unless I'm up against a character guaranteed to lose in skill


I'll still defend my boy yoriichi's skills and talents with my life tho

I couldnt agree more
The worst part is that it just keep on getting brought up again and again

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Already explained why I think Ram takes it, so you can count me.

Added

If you make matches with Subaru, i would vote for him 98% of the times, because i kinda biased towards him.

Well thats interesting, alright i am going to try making some for best boy
Although it would help if he gets beatrice as an optional equipment then becuz otherwise most of his matches will be stomps oof

 

[Robo432343]

i vote incon

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

i vote incon

Counted

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The arguments for Ram are more convincing to me, so Ram FRA.

Though votes seem split here, so this is probably going incon.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The arguments for Ram are more convincing to me, so Ram FRA.

Though votes seem split here, so this is probably going incon.

Hopefully not

 

[speedster352]

Bumo

 

[Naito-desu]

Voting Yoriichi FRA

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

ah i forgot this existed
alright vote counted

 

[Passersby]

oh yeah, this

ram's only wincon aka the invisible attacks is now no longer invisible, even if we ignore my prior argument

tanjiro can smell the swamp demon even when he is inside his swamp dimension

for more context, see season 1 ep 6 from 14:35 to 14:55

but he couldn't smell this demon's ability/ his arrow patterns

however, he was able to see them when yushiro lent him his senses

and the uppermoons scale far above him, then koku scales far above him as well, then yoriichi scales far above all of them so ram's attacks might as well not have the term "invisible" added to them really

and with that, ram's only wincon aka the invisible attacks is gone, also i checked the fight and she simply overhwelmed him with strenght to beat him into a corner and predicted where he will land/teleport with clairvoyance, so nothing special

which makes this a stomp