One Punch Man - Low 5-B downgrades

[Qawsedf234]

You can't close it when people are still making pretty valid arguments.

People are making arguments, that doesn't make them valid. Truelight is suggesting a High 5-A mass-energy upgrade or a Low 4-C frictional energy upgrade for Orochi's feat and is attempting to dismiss other views with basic fallacy tactics like false comparisons or using arguments we already account for when calcing a fictional feat.

The mods who commented agree with my proposal as do most users. I'll leave this open for another day and take a vote count then I guess, but I don't think people's opinions on the subject will change much.

 

[Bernkastelll]

People are making arguments, that doesn't make them valid. Truelight is suggesting a High 5-A mass-energy upgrade or a Low 4-C frictional energy upgrade for Orochi's feat and is attempting to dismiss other views with basic fallacy tactics.

The mods who commented agree with my proposal as do most users. I'll leave this open for another day and take a vote count then I guess.

Well, to be fair, the mods didnt saw the new arguments

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well, to be fair, the mods didnt saw the new arguments

Damage did as did Migue, but not DDM.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

People are making arguments, that doesn't make them valid. Truelight is suggesting a High 5-A mass-energy upgrade or a Low 4-C frictional energy upgrade for Orochi's feat and is attempting to dismiss other views with basic fallacy tactics like false comparisons or using arguments we already account for when calcing a fictional feat.

The mods who commented agree with my proposal as do most users. I'll leave this open for another day and take a vote count then I guess, but I don't think people's opinions on the subject will change much.

True lights argument is kind weird, because the low 4-c/high 5-a are clearly inaccurate, so he's more like down grading even more because then we'd be ignoring the earth quake calcs.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I'm late as always apparently, but yeah I completely agree with Qwasedf234 here

 

[truelight810]

People are making arguments, that doesn't make them valid. Truelight is suggesting a High 5-A mass-energy upgrade or a Low 4-C frictional energy upgrade for Orochi's feat and is attempting to dismiss other views with basic fallacy tactics like false comparisons or using arguments we already account for when calcing a fictional feat.

The mods who commented agree with my proposal as do most users. I'll leave this open for another day and take a vote count then I guess, but I don't think people's opinions on the subject will change much.

1) i am not arguing for any of the 2 things you are saying
I don't even know if the calculation I made is correct
I just want someone to do a serious calculation taking into account all the required variables
2) frankly speaking I have already explained why your assumptions are wrong and I have not seen any valid arguments against my points so to say that I am the one who is ignoring the opinions of others is wrong
I'm just using my knowledge of physics to explain why the premises of your argument are wrong

 

[Qawsedf234]

like down grading even more because then we'd be ignoring the earth quake calcs.

The thing is we're not ignoring the earthquakes. He's saying the Low 5-B calc should still be valid since the sphere must have mass to cause the earthquakes, rather than Orochi's tail or the sphere's energy causing the earthquakes.

I think the sphere/Orochi causing the earthquake is more or less meaningless since it results in the same, but it having mass I find questionable. Especially when he would've taken like 1% of the Earth's total mass with that attack if it was true..

 

[truelight810]

The thing is we're not ignoring the earthquakes. He's saying the Low 5-B calc should still be valid since the sphere must have mass to cause the earthquakes, rather than Orochi's tail or the sphere's energy causing the earthquakes.

I think the sphere/Orochi causing the earthquake is more or less meaningless since it results in the same, but it having mass I find questionable. Especially when he would've taken like 1% of the Earth's total mass with that attack if it was true..

1) the calculation of the kinetic energy is not wrong, only incomplete because it does not take into account one of the major forces involved
2) it is not insignificant because the only way in which the earthquake in question could have been generated is through the movement of a huge amount of mass
for the reasons I have already written above

 

[Qawsedf234]

earthquake in question could have been generated is through the movement of a huge amount of mass

Except that we have other examples of raw energy causing the environment to shake. There's no need for mass when we know that's how energy can operate in-universe

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The thing is we're not ignoring the earthquakes. He's saying the Low 5-B calc should still be valid since the sphere must have mass to cause the earthquakes, rather than Orochi's tail or the sphere's energy causing the earthquakes.

I think the sphere/Orochi causing the earthquake is more or less meaningless since it results in the same, but it having mass I find questionable. Especially when he would've taken like 1% of the Earth's total mass with that attack if it was true..

I think the most accurate is orochi's tail rather than the energy sphere, because yrue light made a good point about the energy sphere not having enough time for the thermal energy to effect the crust.

 

[truelight810]

Except that we have other examples of raw energy causing the environment to shake. There's no need for mass when we know that's how energy can operate in-universe

you have to show me examples of what you are saying
so I can understand if it is the same situation

 

[truelight810]

I think the most accurate is orochi's tail rather than the energy sphere, because yrue light made a good point about the energy sphere not having enough time for the thermal energy to effect the crust.

yes but that ignores the dialogue of the monster that says that the epicenter is approaching the surface and the earthquakes that happen afterwards

Orochi's dialogue is not related to his attack so I don't see why it is taken so much into consideration

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Iirc after Orochi absorbed energy the whole Core got completely distorted (changed it's shape) which is something that should've never happened if Oroshi was only absorbing the heat/energy of the Core without including it's mass unless I'm mistaking

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

The kinetic energy calc would have bisected the planet in half, what are you talking about? The One Punch Man planet is a far future Earth post nuclear war (according to the webcomic) but never has a statement or any lore of being larger like the Toriko planet or more durable like when Moro fused with Earth in the DBS manga. Any higher than 5-C would stop Earth's rotation and Low 5-B would tear the planet in half. 5-B, well, the planet would explode.
And the fact the earthquakes lasted quite a long time as shown by all the reactions, volcano shots etc, show that not only was 'mass' lost but also that a timeframe of seconds is complete bullshit.
Using physics to argue that such earthquakes can't happen would then make the notion of dragging up magma from the core even more ridiculous.

 

[Qawsedf234]

you have to show me examples of what you are saying

Boros shakes City A by powering up is the prime example of what I mean. The area shakes because of his energy rather than anything else.+

Core got completely distorted (changed it's shape)

It bubbled out but then returned back to normal right after.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Iirc after Orochi absorbed energy the whole Core got completely distorted (changed it's shape) which is something that should've never happened if Oroshi was only absorbing the heat/energy of the Core without including it's mass unless I'm mistaking

It didn't. You see energy pinch out of the core and move upwards.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

yes but that ignores the dialogue of the monster that says that the epicenter is approaching the surface and the earthquakes that happen afterwards

Orochi's dialogue is not related to his attack so I don't see why it is taken so much into consideration

That moster isn't a reliable source, and that doesn't mean anything because the definition of epicenter because it's already on the surface. And those earthquakes can still happen by the tail. And yes it does relate wth?

 

[truelight810]

That moster isn't a reliable source, and that doesn't mean anything because the definition of epicenter because it's already on the surface. And those earthquakes can still happen by the tail. And yes it does relate wth?

in this case the position of the natural epicenter does not matter much because the monster is simply saying (perhaps using the wrong term) that it is as if the earthquake is approaching the surface increasing in power

2) yes that it matters since he is having direct experience of the earthquake

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

That moster isn't a reliable source

Why?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

It bubbled out but then returned back to normal right after.

No?



We can clearly see that the core was being distorted (not by that much but still) and nothing implies that it returned back to it's normal form and I don't really think absorbing Heat can do something like this if mass wasn't included.

For now I disagree with the downgrade

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Any higher than 5-C would stop Earth's rotation and Low 5-B would tear the planet in half. 5-B, well, the planet would explode.

To be honest, I disagree with this logic. Manga usually don't follow much cause and effect logic in their feats. For example, 99% of the feats of characters destroying the moon or moving it, the authors don't put the effect of the seas being completely extinguished, and we still don't ignore what happened

I am still in favor of removing the feat btw

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

sentence: drain energy from the earth
motivation: the sacrifices of gyoro gyoro are not enough


Orochi's dialogue does not refer to his attack
it only expresses that he has the ability to absorb and nourish energy from the earth

No, he said he will take energy from the earth to blast saitama with it, and he uses the same sentence to say that he is absorbing energy from earth meaning he has to mean the same thing, so he is either absorbing only energy or only mass.

in this case the position of the natural epicenter does not matter much because the monster is simply saying (perhaps using the wrong term) that it is as if the earthquake is approaching the surface increasing in power

2) yes that it matters since he is having direct experience of the earthquake

The tail can still have that effect while pulling up that energy. As the closer it reaches the surface, it will also drag mass of the mantle to the direction of the surface.

Why?

2. It doesn't really matter because that monster wouldn't be able to actually know that something is happening to the core, he would only feel the earth quake getting stronger.

 

[truelight810]

No, he said he will take energy from the earth to blast saitama with it, and he uses the same sentence to say that he is absorbing energy from earth meaning he has to mean the same thing, so he is either absorbing only energy or only mass.

The tail can still have that effect while pulling up that energy. As the closer it reaches the surface, it will also drag mass of the mantle to the direction of the surface.

2. It doesn't really matter because that monster wouldn't be able to actually know that something is happening to the core, he would only feel the earth quake getting stronger.

1) you're right, I forgot about the next panel
sorry
2) yes, but we see the reason why the earthquake is getting stronger, so i think we should not ignore what the monster said

 

[Kachon123]

I still disagree with the downgrade.

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Qawsedf234 Also another thing is why would orochi scale to the energy he took? I mean it is an amp and a one time thing that should be noted in any justification. since in the last upgrade people were scaled to the feat off of orochi been lower than them so this downgrade i want to ask if people would be scaled to the feat?

 

[Kachon123]

@Qawsedf234 Also another thing is why would orochi scale to the energy he took? I mean it is an amp and a one time thing that should be noted in any justification. since in the last upgrade people were scaled to the feat off of orochi been lower than them so this downgrade i want to ask if people would be scaled to the feat?

Doesn't he scale to the pull itself?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

@Qawsedf234 Also another thing is why would orochi scale to the energy he took? I mean it is an amp and a one time thing that should be noted in any justification. since in the last upgrade people were scaled to the feat off of orochi been lower than them so this downgrade i want to ask if people would be scaled to the feat?

IIRC he physically pulled the core so it should scale to him

 

[PrinceofPein]

Doesn't he scale to the pull itself?

IIRC he physically pulled the core so it should scale to him

YEs and that would be LS not AP, the AP from the energy absorbed is something only he should scale to tho

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

YEs and that would be LS not AP, the AP from the energy absorbed is something only he should scale to tho

Orochi would still scale to the earth quake.

 

[Qawsedf234]

lso another thing is why would orochi scale to the energy he took?

The assumption in my OP was that Orochi created the Earthquake. The core would just be a vague amp on top of it. If the earthquake was entirely the core then he would be amped to Low 6-B+/6-A with his normal physicals being above Gery or Goketsu

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

I also think Orochi should scale still.

 

[USklaverei]

Old man, we can just calculate the mantle division and we're going to have a High 6-A or even bigger, rather than assuming he pulled such a thing, even though it obviously had mass

 

[truelight810]

i just realized that my computation (friction) can be partially applied as the core piece moves inside the outer core which is liquid

if you agree that the sphere is solid

2) if you disagree just calculate the movement of the core and mantle
I know how to count but I don't know how pixel scales the various measures

 

[Armorchompy]

opm fans can't catch a break lol

 

[Armorchompy]

jokes aside can someone summarize the arguments here

 

[Qawsedf234]

jokes aside can someone summarize the arguments here

To summarize:

• I'm saying that the sphere Orochi pulled was energy. So the Low 5-B calc is invalid as it relies on the assumption that the sphere has mass
• Truelight is saying it does have mass, so the previous calc is still valid

 

[truelight810]

cone volume:
(π r2 h) / 3
can someone calculate the height and radius (diameter / 2)
truncated cone volume:
1/3 pi * (r1 ^ 2 + r1r2 + r2 ^ 2) * h

 

[truelight810]

I don't know how pixel scales the various measures

 

[USklaverei]

So it doesn't make any sense to say that what Orochi is pulling is just thermal energy, that obviously has mass.

 

[Kachon123]

So it doesn't make any sense to say that what Orochi is pulling is just thermal energy, that obviously has mass.

I completely agree.