One Punch Man 7-A Downgrade

[ByAsura]

Because the new distance between Boros' ship and the building might be far greater, increasing the surface area of the shockwave and decreasing the amount of energy the building took.

 

[ByAsura]

Actually, the Boros calculation might be invalid. I'll post later.

Edit: Never mind. I was confusing one image for something else.

 

[Therefir]

Let's wait for this to be evaluated first.

Timmy didn't calculated the explosion like you did, he just assumed the size of the ship is the explosion, but probably doesn't know this explosion encompassed the entirety of A-City.

As for the size of the ship itself, I still think that using the anime values is more recommended than calculating the size of the ship. And the ship being bigger will only increase the distance between it and the Heroes Association HQ.

 

[ByAsura]

That's not what I'm saying. My calculation is based on the size of Boros' ship, and now we have a new size for the ship. I'm not using his explosion calculation, let alone portraying it as more accurate, which is why I explicitly said 'the new distance between Boros' ship and the building might be far greater, increasing the surface area of the shockwave and decreasing the amount of energy the building took.'

Why are the anime values better?

 

[Therefir]

Why are the anime values better?

They are more official I guess, it's already weird that the anime went on their way to give us an exact measurement.

 

[NikHelton]

I have already spoken with the author of this calculation and we came to the conclusion that it is overstated. The bullet flies at an angle and creates a panorama due to which the image is stretched. Moreover, as the length is used, the segment from the beginning to the end of the bullet is not entirely true, because the bullet tip has a cone-shaped shape.
Due to the angle of flight, we cannot fully estimate the height of the cone.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, no third downgrade then.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Timmy didn't calculated the explosion like you did, he just assumed the size of the ship is the explosion, but probably doesn't know this explosion encompassed the entirety of A-City.

I was aware of the shockwave traveling out through the city I was just calcing the shockwave shown on screen. I’m pretty sure I stated in the blog I was calcing the explosion.

As for the size of the ship itself, I still think that using the anime values is more recommended than calculating the size of the ship. And the ship being bigger will only increase the distance between it and the Heroes Association HQ.

The manga should work.

They are more official I guess, it's already weird that the anime went on their way to give us an exact measurement.

No

I have already spoken with the author of this calculation and we came to the conclusion that it is overstated. The bullet flies at an angle and creates a panorama due to which the image is stretched. Moreover, as the length is used, the segment from the beginning to the end of the bullet is not entirely true, because the bullet tip has a cone-shaped shape.
Due to the angle of flight, we cannot fully estimate the height of the cone.

who are you again?
I went from the center to the end, and while what you say is true that only makes this calc a lowball and the bullet size is much larger than what I calc at. This would just make it a low end and should still be usable

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I went from the center to the end, and while what you say is true that only makes this calc a lowball and the bullet size is much larger than what I calc at. This would just make it a low end and should still be usable

Even if I don’t use Saitama (which works perfectly as a low end) I could revert to these shots which would give far higher results.

(Now while the cast shouldn’t be visible around these buildings, it should still work as he was only trying to show us where they were at the time)

Guess I need to go get my computer

 

[TimmyTurnero]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TimmyTurnero/The_size_of_Boros'_ship_(manga) ok stop bothering me (96km)

 

[Therefir]

A rather ridiculous calc considering those orbs vary in size even in that panel.

I noticed the original calc used an earthquake formula (why) instead of an explosion, so the whole intensity thing was wrong since the beginning.

We should apply the downgrade agreed in this thread, it's getting unnecessarily extended for no reason.

 

[LordTracer]

We should apply the downgrade agreed in this thread, it's getting unnecessarily extended for no reason.

Agreed.

 

[ByAsura]

Has all the scaling been discussed? What was the consensus on Gouketsu scaling?

 

[Therefir]

Only Post-Molt Elder Centipede scales from Gouketsu, and that as a "possibly" rating, that's what I got from the discussion.

 

[ByAsura]

And Awakened Bang scales to Post-Molt, which Awakened Garou also scales to.

 

[LordTracer]

And Awakened Bang scales to Post-Molt.

And Pre-Awakened Garou scales to Bang.

 

[Therefir]

Does he? Bang said he was about to go all-out for the last time in his life, but that doesn't mean it was actually going to work against Post-Molt EC.

 

[Therefir]

I would go with a possible rating in this case as well, since they didn't actually fight.

 

[LordTracer]

I would go with a possible rating in this case as well, since they didn't actually fight.

Well, EC only gets the ‘possibly’ rating, so Bang would naturally have it as well.

 

[ByAsura]

Clearly Bang thought he could at least repel EC for some time.

 

[LordTracer]

Although I would like to question initial Half-Monster Garou’s rating for a second, since he currently scales to the 7-As, why does he scale where he does?

He doesn’t really have any AP feats on that level, aside from smacking Rover ig.

 

[ByAsura]

Because he wasn't vaporized by attacks that could harm Bang/Bomb, and his AP scales to his durability in all incarnations.

 

[LordTracer]

and his AP scales to his durability in all incarnations.

Eh… Human Garou could survive being pummeled by Bang for nearly an entire chapter (funnily enough, he had a similar reaction to when he was attacked by Rover and Darkshine, since he thought he was dying), then Bomb joined in and Garou was still taking their hits, but his AP is definitely not comparable to either of them at that point.

 

[ByAsura]

They weren't going all out. Plus, Garou was bleeding from hits from TTM, so clearly his actual durability is similar.

 

[LordTracer]

Afaik, it’s never stated that they aren’t going all-out though. Plus Bang and Bomb are clearly putting in effort and trying to take him down, especially considering that Bang says “This is the end” when he and Bomb prepare to do a final attack against Garou.

And even if I agreed with you here, I don’t think you can really say Half-Monster Garou should automatically work the same as Human Garou, since, y’know, one version is a human and the other is part monster. They’re not the same.

 

[ByAsura]

They say later that they're not trying to kill him.

Clearly they are the same because all other forms of half-human Garou also have similar durability to their AP. Ditto for this new Garou and Spiral Garou.

 

[LordTracer]

Can you show a scan of that?

Uh… that’s literally what we’re arguing right now. Half-Monster Garou doesn’t have showings that would imply his AP is remotely close to his durability aside from, again, him smacking Rover into the ground (but even that’s likely after adapting since his initial strikes to Rover’s leg didn’t do anything). Garou even says “This is how strong their leaders are? This is… Threat Level Dragon!”, and it wouldn’t really make sense for him to say that if he’s already that strong as well. Plus Gyoro Gyoro mentions that he’s been adapting very quickly, and in the next chapter, she mentions Garou withstanding Rover’s blasts, so again, wouldn’t make much sense if he started out that strong.

Also HM Garou consistently survives hits from people far stronger than him (i.e. Rover and Darkshine), so saying his AP is relative to his durability makes even less sense.

 

[ByAsura]

I'll try find the chapter. Either way, Garou was still wrecked by TTM.

Yes, what's your point here?

Aside from the DS and Orochi fights.

Which contradicts nothing. It doesn't show that this Garou is a stone wall, and may only refer to how Garou's gone from his human state to being able to withstand Rover's attacks after becoming a half-monster, and that his evolution will continue follow suit.

How about you actually prove that Garou is, or has ever been, a stone wall? What proves that this Garou is any different to any other form of Garou? To make it easy, nothing. His durability is still comparable to his AP. You're really only showing signs that he has considerable endurance, but you've outright contradicted this by bringing up Psykos' statement.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

A rather ridiculous calc considering those orbs vary in size even in that panel.

I used a mid sized one for both panels I used the orbs, which should be fine. If necessary I can go for the smallest one.
I’ll wait for the opinion of other calc members

 

[TimmyTurnero]

“Prove that his ap and durability aren’t always equal”
Wouldn’t it be your job to prove they are always equal? You don’t just assert that X is always the same without evidence for it, lol

 

[TimmyTurnero]

It’d be different if it’s stated they were always equal but it’s not, so the burden would actually be on who is asserting that is the case, since when did we give that rating to characters without a feat or statement at the time proving so?
OPM need more supporters

 

[LordTracer]

Yes, what's your point here?

Is it not obvious? I don’t think HM Garou’s AP should scale to his durability by default, and that’s simply not a thing that should be done without actual evidence to support it.

How about you actually prove that Garou is, or has ever been, a stone wall? What anti-feats does Garou have here? To make it easy, he has none.

As I already said, he consistently takes hits from people far stronger than him, which stone walls do. Rover was stronger than him, yet Garou (barely) survived his initial blast. Darkshine was stronger than him, yet Garou (again, barely) survived his attacks.

In fact, against Darkshine, he blatantly says that he cannot deflect his attack, despite proceeding to survive it, which blatantly shows that his durability is superior to his AP. Can you provide any actual feats from Half-Monster Garou that show, without adapting, that his AP is comparable to his durability.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Can you provide any actual feats from Half-Monster Garou that show, without adapting, that his AP is comparable to his durability.

pretty sure this ^ right here is needed for any ap=durability rating

 

[ByAsura]

Bang admits here that he was too lenient before with Garou, but will now try to kill him.

Is it not obvious? I don’t think HM Garou’s AP should scale to his durability by default, and that’s simply not a thing that should be done without actual evidence to support it.

I meant by 'Uh… that’s literally what we’re arguing right now.' What point of mine is this in reference to, and what are you trying to address?

As I already said, he consistently takes hits from people far stronger than him, which stone walls do. Rover was stronger than him, yet Garou (barely) survived his initial blast. Darkshine was stronger than him, yet Garou (again, barely) survived his attacks.

The fact that he barely survived their attacks doesn't mean his durability doesn't scale to his AP. By this logic, anyone else should be one-shot someone two times weaker than them.

In fact, against Darkshine, he blatantly says that he cannot deflect his attack, despite proceeding to survive it, which blatantly shows that his durability is superior to his AP.

He survived it, but his entire rib cage was shattered. So, no, his durability doesn't scale to that. In fact, this blatantly supports my point, if anything.

Can you provide any actual feats from Half-Monster Garou that show, without adapting, that his AP is comparable to his durability.

Already did, namely the fact that he blocks a punch from casual Orochi that can harm him, and that he's been harmed by both Genos and TTM. Now its your turn to prove that Garou's durability, not his endurance, is superior to his AP.

It’d be different if it’s stated they were always equal but it’s not, so the burden would actually be on who is asserting that is the case, since when did we give that rating to characters without a feat or statement at the time proving so?
OPM need more supporters

It's just the common assumption for physical fighters who can fight people that can harm them (especially in a fighting verse like OPM), and Garou has consistently been harmed by people with comparable strength.

If anything, Garou has always been a semi-glass cannon with high endurance.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

It's just the common assumption for physical fighters who can fight people that can harm them (especially in a fighting verse like OPM), and Garou has consistently been harmed by people with comparable strength.

If anything, Garou has always been a semi-glass cannon with high endurance.

Yeah, in nearly any fighting manga, in a straight up fight with the battlers going back and forth, their durability and ap must be relative for them to even have a battle. It’s a common thing and should be used for that showing, but when there’s nothing to imply in a scene that his ap~durability it shouldn’t be assumed at all.
It’s not like some passive ability they have.

 

[ByAsura]

There's tons of scenes to imply it, fortunately.

It's not passive, but it's very typical. Verse portrayal should definitely be a factor.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

There's tons of scenes to imply it, though.

His durability is mountain level, possibly mountain level+ for taking an attack from Rover.
His mountain level ap justification says it should be relative to his durability.
So what ton of scenes during this fight implying his ap during this time should~his durability or =Rover’sattack?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I’m gonna go reread the fight in case I’m missing something

 

[ByAsura]

Not that fight specifically, just virtually every other fight scene.

Keep in mind, Garou only gets a single hit on Rover here, and Rover's provably a stone wall compared to his energy blasts.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Not that fight specifically, just virtually every other fight scene.

Keep in mind, Garou only gets a single hit on Rover here, and Rover's provably a stone wall compared to his energy blasts.

His justification says he easily beat a small city level being, grew a lot stronger, and got beat up by moon level beings.
I don’t see how any of this justifies him getting over 150x stronger. Maybe I’m missing something