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One-Punch Man: 2 MFTL Calcs

I say we Therefir's calc then. The source for a sneeze timeframe given in his blog is this article, while the one given in mine is this. In Therefir's source, the 0.3 second figure doesn't come from any reliable source. The article's author simply just stated that a sneeze lasts that long simply as a one-off parameter for their own formula. In my source, however, the author links another article that actually did data gathering as their source for the 0.18 second figure.

There's no reason to stick to Therefir's source as the number they gave could've come from anywhere.
 
Kachon123 said:
I say we Therefir's calc then. The source for a sneeze timeframe given in his blog is this article, while the one given in mine is this. In Therefir's source, the 0.3 second figure doesn't come from any reliable source. The article's author simply just stated that a sneeze lasts that long simply as a one-off parameter for their own formula. In my source, however, the author links another article that actually did data gathering as their source for the 0.18 second figure.

There's no reason to stick to Therefir's source as the number they gave could've come from anywhere.
Click to expand...
OK, if you insist that your calculated time frame looks more plausible, that's fine, but this will require us to modify Therefir's calculations to account for the same speed of the scene.
 
Since Therefir had a mid end and high end using the ranges of time given in his source (0.3 seconds to 0.7 seconds), it should be combined into one singular end using the average of the range given in my source (0.18 seconds).
 
Since they both used gathered data, they're both equally usable. I'll stick with mine because there's no reason to switch to this one. Also, reminder that this is a Calc Group Thread, not a CRT. Don't comment unless you have permission from a Calc Group Member.
 
Kachon123 said:
Since they both used gathered data, they're both equally usable. I'll stick with mine because there's no reason to switch to this one. Also, reminder that this is a Calc Group Thread, not a CRT. Don't comment unless you have permission from a Calc Group Member.
Click to expand...
Actually this isn't the case. Somehow we gaslit ourselves into believing this is a rule, when it's actually not the case

Just don't derail and we're good to go
 
My position is that the calc of Garou blitzing Platinum Sperm is calc stacking.

The basis of the calc appears to be taking an interpretation of this line in our Calc Stacking standards:
  • Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do their best or anything similar.
To mean;
  • Therefore the speed of characters or attacks calculated in the same instance can be used.

On one hand, I can see the logic of the calc; find the speed of Platinum Speed, and you find Garou's speed by measuring the distance he moved in relation to the distance Platinum Sperm moved in the same timeframe.

But the basis of that interpretation is wrong. This isn't the same instance as where Platinum Sperm's speed was calced. This is the instance where his speed was calced.

After that scene where Platinum Sperm's speed was calced, Platinum Sperm was punched into the ground by Garou. He had stopped moving. We cannot then assume that Platinum Sperm had then immediately resumed to be moving the exact same speed as before when he picked himelf up off the ground. That's what the quoted line in our standards up above covers.

It doesn't matter that it takes place during the same fight, or that it took place after Platinum Sperm's earlier calc. It simply isn't the same instance as when the speed was originally calced.
 
Damage3245 said:
My position is that the calc of Garou blitzing Platinum Sperm is calc stacking.

The basis of the calc appears to be taking an interpretation of this line in our Calc Stacking standards:
  • Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do their best or anything similar.
To mean;
  • Therefore the speed of characters or attacks calculated in the same instance can be used.

On one hand, I can see the logic of the calc; find the speed of Platinum Speed, and you find Garou's speed by measuring the distance he moved in relation to the distance Platinum Sperm moved in the same timeframe.

But the basis of that interpretation is wrong. This isn't the same instance as where Platinum Sperm's speed was calced. This is the instance where his speed was calced.

After that scene where Platinum Sperm's speed was calced, Platinum Sperm was punched into the ground by Garou. He had stopped moving. We cannot then assume that Platinum Sperm had then immediately resumed to be moving the exact same speed as before when he picked himelf up off the ground. That's what the quoted line in our standards up above covers.

It doesn't matter that it takes place during the same fight, or that it took place after Platinum Sperm's earlier calc. It simply isn't the same instance as when the speed was originally calced.
Click to expand...
Yeah I definitely agree with this (not like my opinion on the matter has any weight but whatever lmao)
 
Damage3245 said:
It doesn't matter that it takes place during the same fight, or that it took place after Platinum Sperm's earlier calc. It simply isn't the same instance as when the speed was originally calced.
Click to expand...
I mean to begin with, I don't think anyone's actually saying that it's fine just because it's within the same fight, so that part's honestly a bit of a strawman. What it really comes down to is what's defined as "the same instance" here, which frankly is something we don't really define too well
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I mean to begin with, I don't think anyone's actually saying that it's fine just because it's within the same fight, so that part's honestly a bit of a strawman. What it really comes down to is what's defined as "the same instance" here, which frankly is something we don't really define too well
Click to expand...
Sorry, didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouths, I'd just seen that type of argument before.
 
Damage3245 said:
Sorry, didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouths, I'd just seen that type of argument before.
Click to expand...
That's fair, and I absolutely wouldn't agree with that. I'd rather stick to how we should define "the same instance." I think that's actually pretty important not just for this calc, but in general. For speed, if we're to define it as being within the same string of movement (that is, the calculated feat happens and calculating movement based on said speed is viable until movement stops), then what you're saying for the MFTL calc would hold up and it would be unusable. Overall, my question really is if there's any sort of standard to define what "the same instance" means.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
That's fair, and I absolutely wouldn't agree with that. I'd rather stick to how we should define "the same instance." I think that's actually pretty important not just for this calc, but in general. For speed, if we're to define it as being within the same string of movement (that is, the calculated feat happens and calculating movement based on said speed is viable until movement stops), then what you're saying for the MFTL calc would hold up and it would be unusable. Overall, my question really is if there's any sort of standard to define what "the same instance" means.
Click to expand...
An example of what I'd consider to be a viable "same instance" would be Pain dodging Naruto's Rasenshuriken (Ch. 442) which is accepted on the verse page and is allowed under this line of our standards:
  • Using the calculated speed of a projectile to calculate the speed of a character dodging said projectile on the very same occasion is usually permitted, as long as the projectile wouldn't have changed its speed mid flight.
We calced the speed of Naruto's Rasenshuriken, and we've calced Pain's speed in relation to that same Rasenshuriken.

What I wouldn't consider viable is finding a different occasion where Naruto threw a Rasenshuriken at somebody else and using that as the speed value of what Pain dodged. But because Pain dodged the one that we've calced, it is permitted here since as you've said it is the "same string of movement".
 
Ngl I feel like a thread on properly defining what's considered "the same instance" could potentially be warranted at some point

That seems like a reasonable example, yeah. And I'd agree with the Naruto examples of what is and isn't viable. This one's a weirder case imo but I can see how it wouldn't be viable. Atm I'm unsure about the MFTL Garou calc while I agree with the usage of the MFTL+ Saitama calc
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Ngl I feel like a thread on properly defining what's considered "the same instance" could potentially be warranted at some point

That seems like a reasonable example, yeah. And I'd agree with the Naruto examples of what is and isn't viable. This one's a weirder case imo but I can see how it wouldn't be viable. Atm I'm unsure about the MFTL Garou calc while I agree with the usage of the MFTL+ Saitama calc
Click to expand...
can't it be allowed in this case? because in all this light structures , they are not just running but fighting. where they "stop moving" and then still react and move away at the same level of speed.
 
I agree with Damage for Garou's MFTL feat.

I would have no problem with the second calculation if we agreed to use a time window of 0.18 seconds for this calculation. And Therefir's calculations.
 
DavidTPPM said:
Could someone explain the sneeze calc to me please? I asked before but got left on seen 💔
Click to expand...
it calculates the distance of the gas for both pages and then takes the difference between both. to see how far the gas went within those pages. then using their speed, he finds the timeframe and then using the distance between saitama&garou and IO, he finds their speed happened by his sneeze's force.
 
Damage3245 said:
But the basis of that interpretation is wrong. This isn't the same instance as where Platinum Sperm's speed was calced. This is the instance where his speed was calced.

After that scene where Platinum Sperm's speed was calced, Platinum Sperm was punched into the ground by Garou. He had stopped moving. We cannot then assume that Platinum Sperm had then immediately resumed to be moving the exact same speed as before when he picked himelf up off the ground. That's what the quoted line in our standards up above covers.
Click to expand...
I don't really believe that this disqualifies Garou finishing off Platinum Sperm as being within the same scene as when they went crashing down. For a very similar instance, we used the calced speed of Hellfire and Gale and applied it to them after they already stopped moving once they punched Flashy Flash. While Hellfire and Gale did stop moving, it still counts as the same scene because it's all vey successive events and are within the same sequence of action.

Hell, the light patterns only disappeared after Platinum Sperm died, meaning that everything that happened from Flashy Flashy being defeated to Platinum Sperm being defeated can all be considered "within the same instance."
 
Kachon123 said:
I don't really believe that this disqualifies Garou finishing off Platinum Sperm as being within the same scene as when they went crashing down. For a very similar instance, we used the calced speed of Hellfire and Gale and applied it to them after they already stopped moving once they punched Flashy Flash. While Hellfire and Gale did stop moving, it still counts as the same scene because it's all vey successive events and are within the same sequence of action.

Hell, the light patterns only disappeared after Platinum Sperm died, meaning that everything that happened from Flashy Flashy being defeated to Platinum Sperm being defeated can all be considered "within the same instance."
Click to expand...
I don't agree with that.
 
MrTayman616 said:
it calculates the distance of the gas for both pages and then takes the difference between both. to see how far the gas went within those pages. then using their speed, he finds the timeframe and then using the distance between saitama&garou and IO, he finds their speed happened by his sneeze's force.
Click to expand...
Okay, but there are 2 issues with that. (unless I misunderstood it)

1. The time frame for a regular sneeze being 0.18 seconds doesn't mean the effects of Saitamas sneeze happen in that time frame. Saitamas sneeze itself might happen in 0.18 seconds but the aftermath (Jupiter being destroyed) has no reason to be limited to that time frame.

2. As the gas gets pushed further and further from the center of Saitamas sneeze, it collects more gas at an exponential rate making the the gas at the edge of the spread heavier, which would logically slow it down. This means that the gas would slow down between panels, making the time frame inaccurate.
 
DavidTPPM said:
1. The time frame for a regular sneeze being 0.18 seconds doesn't mean the effects of Saitamas sneeze happen in that time frame. Saitamas sneeze itself might happen in 0.18 seconds but the aftermath (Jupiter being destroyed) has no reason to be limited to that time frame.
Click to expand...
The sneeze logically ended after the attack was named.
DavidTPPM said:
As the gas gets pushed further and further from the center of Saitamas sneeze, it collects more gas at an exponential rate making the the gas at the edge of the spread heavier, which would logically slow it down. This means that the gas would slow down between panels, making the time frame inaccurate.
Click to expand...
There is no external force that would either speed or slow the gas down, which is why I used the same speed.
 
Kachon123 said:
The sneeze logically ended after the attack was named.
Click to expand...
I don’t see a reason to assume that. Based on Saitamas position and the "achoo", the sneezed ended here
One-Punch-Man-Official-Scans-166-20.jpg

And if you look at the page that you used for a sneeze time frame, you can see that they also consider the sneeze to end at that point.
PHFLE6-000032-115129-1-g005.jpg

The sneeze particles traveling is no longer considering a part of the act of sneezing and happens between 1.5 to 18.5 seconds according to your source.
Kachon123 said:
There is no external force that would either speed or slow the gas down, which is why I used the same speed.
Click to expand...
Huh? The more the sneeze spreads, the more energy it loses per m³ and the more mass it has to push. Both of these factors result in the decrease of speed. It's the same principle as inverse cube law but in the reverse to how we usually use it to calculate AP feats.
 
I may be misunderstanding the second calculation, but I don't think using the timeframe of a sneeze to determine the speed at which the gas expanded is accurate. We can't be sure if Saitama had just finished his sneeze. This panel could easily depict what the gas looked like a second after the sneeze. It just seems overly highballed to me.
 
I don't think it says "everything" happened within that timeframe.

In a vacuum, the total mechanical energy (kinetic + potential) stays the same as long as there is no external force(except there is the gravitational force of jupiter and etc.). so it doesn't matter if it happens like 2-3 second after saitama sneezed. Because there is the distance between IO and jupiter, around 421000 km. The sneeze should go through this distance as well. But it doesn't lose energy or velocity since it moves through outer space. the sneeze should be at the same speed and etc when it reaches the jupiter. Then it hits jupiter and causes this. It says what happened after it reaches there should be around how long a sneeze lasts since the sneeze reached there without losing energy or velocity or anything.
 
MrTayman616 said:
I think it doesn't say that everything happened within that timeframe.
Click to expand...
It does.
MrTayman616 said:
In a vacuum, the total mechanical energy (kinetic + potential) stays the same as long as there is no external force(except there is the gravitational force of jupiter and etc.).
Click to expand...
Well first of all, we're not calculating KE but speed. Second of all, the "external forces" would be the additional gas from Jupiters surface that amasses as the sneeze shockwave spreads.
MrTayman616 said:
so it doesn't matter if it happens like 2-3 second after saitama sneezed.
Click to expand...
It definitely does as the speed calc is specifically using the sneeze time frame for everything.
MrTayman616 said:
Because there is the distance between IO and jupiter, around 421000 km. The sneeze should go through this distance as well. But it doesn't lose energy or velocity since it moves through outer space. the sneeze should be at the same speed and etc when it reaches the jupiter.
Click to expand...
🤦‍♂️
MrTayman616 said:
Then it hits jupiter and causes this. It says what happened after it reaches there should be around how long a sneeze lasts since the sneeze reached there without losing energy or velocity or anything.
Click to expand...
You seem even more confused by the calc than me.
 
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