- 18,620
- 12,899
Fair point. More discussion is probably needed.
What about the fact that Luffy's Gear 4 smashed through the Bird Cage that tanked the meteor?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
One Piece Post-Timeskip Update #2
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
-
- Tags
- one piece
- Status
What about the fact that Luffy's Gear 4 smashed through the Bird Cage that tanked the meteor?
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #82
I think I'd rather use standard assumed meteor speeds for that if we're not going to rely on the anime for that.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,206
- 5,335
That would be wrong, even the closest asteroids to Earth are dozens of thousands of km away from Earth's surface.
Moving them with enough speed to reach the surface in a matter of seconds automatically requid speeds that far far exceed standard meteor speeds, which would also means that Issho's gravity >>>>> Earth's gravity.
Using that value isn't just lowball, it go right to downplay territory.
- 21,469
- 30,790
Using secondary canon is better than making assumptions.
There's no issue with the anime timeframe calculation wise except "outlier", but we don't fix up perfectly fine outlier calcs by making extra assumptions to deliberately lowball the calc.
If we call it an outlier, fine, but if we deliberately downgrade it, that's bull.
Especially 30 seconds? Over 3x what our secondary canon gives us?
If it was 30 seconds then the person who got hit by the meteor wouldn't have gotten hit. 30 seconds doesn't make logical sense in terms of context of the story.
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #85
I concur with KingTempest.
- 15,442
- 15,410
I concur with KingTempest. x∞
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,206
- 5,335
Understand, i was simply proposing an alternative but still acceptable result, while be more consistent with other currenct accepted feats.
And yeah 30 seconds its high, but that its the max timeframe that its i have usually see been used for most feats that happen in a few moments during fighting scenes.
Last edited:
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,206
- 5,335
In anycase, while Issho's 62.8 Teratons its definitely above Whitebeard's 12.64 Teratons, the gap itself isn't so ridiculous big to make it an Outlier.
Its not like we never had series where weaker characters perform more impressive feats than stronger characters.
EDIT:
Seeing how we get this other feat, Issho's feat seen less and less of an outlier.
Its not like we never had series where weaker characters perform more impressive feats than stronger characters.
EDIT:
Seeing how we get this other feat, Issho's feat seen less and less of an outlier.
Last edited:
- 18,620
- 12,899
I'm just going to go with what @KingTempest says about the speed and time since I know little to nothing.
- 21,469
- 30,790
WB calc mini bump, just fixed the 1st one
- 4,781
- 7,395
It's strange how we limit the CURRENT Top tiers to a pre timeskip dying WB and a prime sitting down, drinking whitebeard's who did that feat by just getting angry, rather than scaling the current top tiers of a character further into the story, being Isshou and his meteorites.
If the meteorite pull was done via his gravity, and we've seen him REPEL another meteorite with his gravity, it means he can both use it as a pull and a push, which implies it can offensively scale to the strongest meteorite he dragged based on that fact.
If Fujitora scales to it, then those stronger than him (DEFINITIVELY, not those who clashed with a casual Ishou or an Ishou that didn't use his gravity's highest offense like against Zoro) should flat out scale at least to said feat.
The gap of Ishou TRYING to drag a meteorite down vs Whitebeard sitting down and getting pouty being x5 isn't that big to be an outlier, as stated above.
If the meteorite pull was done via his gravity, and we've seen him REPEL another meteorite with his gravity, it means he can both use it as a pull and a push, which implies it can offensively scale to the strongest meteorite he dragged based on that fact.
If Fujitora scales to it, then those stronger than him (DEFINITIVELY, not those who clashed with a casual Ishou or an Ishou that didn't use his gravity's highest offense like against Zoro) should flat out scale at least to said feat.
The gap of Ishou TRYING to drag a meteorite down vs Whitebeard sitting down and getting pouty being x5 isn't that big to be an outlier, as stated above.
- 31,399
- 27,689
- 4,781
- 7,395
I'm assuming that's because it scales above a top tier, right? The issue is that scales above a top tier that wasn't even trying.
And although it isn't accepted yet, there's still a yet to be looked at 18TT feat for Luffy and Kaido (individually), the former of the two scaling to it in BASE. But that's Wano stuff, but I thought I'd mention it and how not so ridiculous a x5 difference is when Luffy's several multipliers pass both if his own country level calc gets accepted.
So either A, TWO CONSISTENT feats are outliers because a super casual top tier did less
Or B, the feats just get better as the story progresses? And I apologize for the wano mention, I know it's a seperate thing altogether but it's the best example on greater than old gen feats that we have in the story, that lines up with the meteorite feat, and the current top tiers surpassing older feats.
And although it isn't accepted yet, there's still a yet to be looked at 18TT feat for Luffy and Kaido (individually), the former of the two scaling to it in BASE. But that's Wano stuff, but I thought I'd mention it and how not so ridiculous a x5 difference is when Luffy's several multipliers pass both if his own country level calc gets accepted.
So either A, TWO CONSISTENT feats are outliers because a super casual top tier did less
Or B, the feats just get better as the story progresses? And I apologize for the wano mention, I know it's a seperate thing altogether but it's the best example on greater than old gen feats that we have in the story, that lines up with the meteorite feat, and the current top tiers surpassing older feats.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,206
- 5,335
That could be just count a classic example of Attack Potency/AoE.
We did see that Issho had the ability to concentrate gravity on a small area without affecting everyone else like with Doffy's crooks, Zoro or Law.
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #96
@Stefano4444; well, you may be right.
I'll get back to this thread and that topic tomorrow. This evening has been a lot worse for me than I expected but fingers crossed the beginning of next month will be better & I'll have more time.
I'll get back to this thread and that topic tomorrow. This evening has been a lot worse for me than I expected but fingers crossed the beginning of next month will be better & I'll have more time.
- 91
- 69
Hope your day gets better bro
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #98
Last few days have been rough, but things are looking up now. Thanks.
- 11,750
- 16,166
Stay safe and take care of yourself, Damage. I hope things get better for you soon.
- 21,469
- 30,790
Sorry to hear that Damage, hope all gets well
- 6,632
- 6,816
Stay safe Damage, without you who's gonna be there to keep us from going too crazy?
But seriously, take care!
But seriously, take care!
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #103
Thanks. It's not that bad.
- 18,793
- 13,804
I still don't understand how someone being a god tier and making a feat that still in the same tier gets somehow called out for being an outlier 
... So for example if Sai right now makes a continental feat that's stated in the Databook, Is in the Manga and everything, would that somehow be an outlier also?
... So for example if Sai right now makes a continental feat that's stated in the Databook, Is in the Manga and everything, would that somehow be an outlier also?
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #106
It could be. Do you not get how outliers work? A feat doesn't become not an outlier just because it exists.I still don't understand how someone being a god tier and making a feat that still in the same tier gets somehow called out for being an outlier
If Nami got a Large Country calc in Fishman Island (somehow) would you accept it point-blank without considering any other implications?
- 18,793
- 13,804
Not if it's a direct feat no.
Why...
Ok another example... Prime Whitebeard somehow destroys a big planet in another parallel dimension which that planet has a stated size, would that feat be an outlier?
- 18,793
- 13,804
I don't see that anywhere with this feat when so many god tiers aswell make the same tier feats
Edit: It is completely unfair to say something that's a 5x difference from god tier to god tier, that's it's an outlier because now it makes it so the one piece verse is even more strict and will be impossible to upgrade a character that ever does a good feat that's better then there other feats.
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #109
It doesn't just mean inconsistent with the series, but inconsistent with the character's normal power level as well.
Fujitora has a lot more feats well below the level of Country level+. His own meteors vary from Mountain level up to that high, with a couple of them being Large Mountain level.
I'd rather give Fujitora a "Varies" rating with his meteors and rate his normal statistics by his other feats and scaling to other characters.
- 18,793
- 13,804
You mean Large Mountain level to Country level+ with meteors? But didn't arc say that feat scales to his ap?
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #111
Sorry, meant it varies from City level to Large Mountain level to Country level+. That amount of variation means it doesn't make sense to me to just scale Fujitora purely to the strongest one and say that's his baseline level of power.
It's a bit enough variation that I have to wonder if there's some mistake in the original calc. I think the pixelscaling over the size of the meteor for it may be wrong; it doesn't seem to be a clear picture of the diameter of the actual meteor.
But I'll get into the calc stuff later if I need to. For now I'm working through adding the lower tier Dressrosa characters to the sandbox.
- 18,793
- 13,804
But arc explained why his ap scales to the meteor that's Country lvl+... So just because someone can get lower results means that it's an outlier or doesn't scale to his strongest feat? Because if we calculated this feat
It wouldn't even be close to country lvl, does that mean Whitebeard should also have varies and not scale to his country lvl feat?
Fujitora's feat isn't even inconsistent and he also does his feat casually (Holding back)
Last edited:
- 18,793
- 13,804
Also why is whitebeard in the op? Isn't this about what dressrosa affected or?
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #114
And you don't think it's weird that Fujitora being very casual produces a Country level+ attack but when Fujitora is serious in combat he produces attacks more like City level and City level+?
Personally I think the more reasonable scaling for Fujitora is to put him at Mountain level, scaling him to Law, and his City level and City level+ feats are supports for that.
Whereas nothing else from Fujitora or characters around his level comes close to Country level+.
Have you noticed that none of Whitebeard's actual destruction feats actually come close to that levle of AP? Only his tsunami feats? I'm not going to get into Whitebeard because that's not what this CRT is about, but I'm not perfectly happy with his profile either.
Because that affects the Whole Cake Island stuff, as brought up in the Luffy/Sanji/Big Mom thread.
This thread is about: Fishman Island, Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Zou and Whole Cake Island.
- 18,793
- 13,804
When was he serious?
All the admirals and god tiers scale to 6-B... Fujitora scaling to Law who had trouble fighting Vergo is inconsistent.
Because we have only seen him fight while holding back, Sick, Old and Dying at the same time in marineford.
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #116
How is that much different to how we had it before? For years we've had Fujitora at 7-A or High 7-A while the other Admirals have been different.
- 18,793
- 13,804
Because there is no scaling between fujitora and the god tiers because of his small screen time and only had his title and implications which isn't enough to scale.
- 4,781
- 7,395
If that's weird, then Kaido's cloud split with Luffy scaling higher than Hakai is weird.
Whitebeard's WEAKER Tsunami attack scaling higher than his last ocean tilt before he died is weird.
Doflamingo's EVERY SERIOUS FEAT being lesser than his bird cage produced from a weaker clone is weird
Zoro scarring Kaido without levelling a country is weird
Characters tend to ACTIVELY suppress their attacks. ADMIRALS ESPECIALLY, as we've seen Kizaru's "meh" kick level a city sized tree, then he gets told to lower the damage and suddenly never does a feat like that EVEN WHEN HE CLASHES WITH RAYLEIGH. WB is said to be able to destroy the world, and created country level Tsunamis, yet ENRAGED WHITEBEARD levelled a building? That's the author literally saying HE DIDNT WANT TO DESTROY MARINEFORD.
If we're downplaying characters because Fujitora pulling a stronger meteorite IN THE OPEN SEA vs Fujitora doing it in A POPULATED CITY doesn't make sense to you, then I don't know what anymore.
- 31,399
- 27,689
- Thread starter
- #119
@SnookB: not quite the argument I'm making. Some of your points don't make sense; the Birdcage isn't being manipulated by a clone that's weaker than Doflamingo. It's being produced by Doflamingo's own Devil Fruit. He doesn't divide off a portion of energy and send it outside of his body to be controlled by something else.
I'm not trying to downplay the characters by only judging them by their worst feats. I'm trying to make a comprehensive judgement using all of the character's showings and see what makes the most consistent sense.
I'm not trying to downplay the characters by only judging them by their worst feats. I'm trying to make a comprehensive judgement using all of the character's showings and see what makes the most consistent sense.
- 39,668
- 15,591
Alrighr guys, Damage was just having a rough days, don't make it worse by saying "downplay this, downplay that"
- Status
Similar threads
