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One Piece: Planet Size Calculation Choices

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KingTempest

KingTempest

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Read the entire OP before you type a message.​

Continuation of this thread here.
I request nobody here except staff, CGMs, and knowledgeable members of One Piece who can verify facts or argue on the behalf of either of/more of the calculations we have here.
By knowledgeable and helpful members, I am including the likes of the following.
@Eminiteable, @KobsterHope07, @Arc7Kuroi, @GodlyCharmander, @XDragnoir, @LordGinSama.
If you are not them, ask for permission by someone who knows who is considered knowledgeable of who are the knowledgeable members of One Piece, including the likes of Me and @Damage3245.

Don't discuss calculations other than ones that ONLY involve planet sizes.

Let's begin.​

We have (officially) accepted a larger One Piece planet, and we've accepted the fact that we can calc it.

So far, I have produced 2 calculations for the size of the planet with it's own pros and cons.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Long River Calcs My Planet

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Big Elephant Calcs My Planet

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

As the person who made the calculations, I can speak on the validation, amount of assumptions, justifications for assumptions, and more.

Zunesha Version​

Method​

This method involved no pixelscaling at all, and all that was used was pure math. Pixelscaling was only used to calc a support for a questionable result.
There is a huge elephant in the One Piece verse named Zunesha who is always walking.

He has been moving for a Millennium, but as we don't know his locations from that point in time, we can use its movements for a canon timeframe that we see him. We first see him in the New World, and we last see him in the New World, a point straight down in the New World from his previous location.

In the blog, I linked an imgur link calculating the amount of time since Zunesha's first appearance and his most recent showing, which provided me 35 days.

Using the Square Cube Law, I was given a speed of 2011.68 m/s. As I was informed that the value did seem pretty high, I calculated one of his walking values in the anime using a second as a timeframe (just used the second of the anime), giving 2690.92 m/s as support. I didn't use that because it would be calc stacking, plus I wanted to avoid pixelscaling, and I just used the Square Cube Law method for his speed.

After I calculated that, I knew that he had only walked through the New World, which is half of the Grand Line, which is the Equator of the planet, as Zunesha would've had to cross the red line in that time, which he didn't do and is impossible for him to do because of the height. I multiplied it by 2 to account for the entire Equator, then I found its diameter via using that number as the circumference.

Assumptions​

There is an assumption that Zunesha moved less than the length of the New World.

Justifications​

The Grand Line's width is calculated from its only showing compared to the rest of the world as 14 times less than the actual length of the Grand Line. We can also look at it and see that it's astronomically smaller.
unknown.png


Now with that being said, the New World/Grand Line has 2 borders dubbed the Calm Belt.
The Calm Belt is filled with Sea Kings, ginormous creatures known for destroying ships and such.
The Thousand Sunny, the ship that the cast uses, was anchored to Zunesha's leg. We specifically see that it is untouched, and we're stated that it appears to have no external damage.
This means that in the 10 day journey, they didn't stray off to the Calm Belt.

Another thing is the apparent assumption made about the direction of Zunesha. "Zunesha didn't walk in a straight line" is the issue.
The Straw Hats rode Zunesha, and they were specifically supposed to go to specific places, which would've been ruined if Zunesha took them off track.
Nami, the ship's navigator, reported no issues about Zunesha taking them off their trail. It's important to know that the Straw Hats' trail involved going down the New World, and if Zunesha took any detours, there would be a huge issue.

With that being said, the argument that "Zunesha didn't walk in a straight line" is humorous.
Zunesha has never been showed to not move in a straight line. Whenever we see Zunesha, we see it going in the same direction. We never get a statement of it turning and we never see it turning.
Nothing implies Zunesha had turned.

Now Zunesha clearly didn't cross the Red Line. I say that because it flat out didn't.
The Straw Hats got off their journey and was still in the New World, which means they didn't cross the Red Line.
They couldn't risk crossing the Red Line, as they already went through hell and back just to cross it.
The Red Line is also too high for Zunesha to move across.

I lowballed Zunesha's distance covered as the entire New World because we couldn't calculate or assume where Zunesha was or where he moved.

Alabasta Version​

Method​

This method involves pixelscaling. It was relatively a very easy and simple calculation to do.

We are give a distance of a river on an island in the Grand Line, 50 kilometers. We were given panels of the island in comparison to its surroundings, and I used that as the width of the Grand Line.
In support of the 50 km distance, Calaca put together a very good blog explaining why the 50 km distance was consistent.
Using that, I calced the size of the island, then I calced the width of the Grand Line.

I did that, then I calced the width to the planet's diameter. Using the curvature method in reverse, I found the "corrected planet size" and ratio'd the result to the true planet size.

Assumptions​

"The picture we see is the width of the Grand Line".

Justifications​

Same thing as above. There is no Sea Kings beside it, which means that this picture is not including the Calm Belt, the borders of the Grand Line.
I also lowballed the calculation, as we can't see the entire width of the Grand Line, meaning this could be higher.

Conclusion​

Method​

First one didn't use pixelscaling and used a lowballed distance calculated by a canonical timeframe and a square cubed law speed supported by a calculation.
Second one used pixelscaling between 3 images and used a lowballed distance to account for a portion of the planet, pixelscaling that portion to the entire thing.

Assumption​

First one assumed Zunesha covered less than the distance in the Grand Line.
Second one assumed that the picture shown was actually the width of the Grand Line.

Justifications​

First one has a lot of reasons to why Zunesha covered less distance.
Second one didn't require a lot of reasons, it just required the fact that the Calm Belt is out of sight.
They both lowballed the distance.

This thread will be used to see if any calculation is better. I ask that nobody type calcs in here, and if you have any other calcs to impose, please blog them and link them.
Let's discuss!
 
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In my humble opinion, the Zunesha method likely gets closer to the true size of the OP planet than the river method does, let me explain.

The river method intentionally finds a planet size smaller than the true size by virtue of us not actually seeing the calm belt in the pan out image. That meaning the width of the grand line calculated via the river method would be objectively smaller than its true size. Although I suppose there is merit in being able to say the planet cannot be any smaller than what the river method indicates, based on our current information, by virtue of this calc being inherently less than the planet's true size.

The Zunesha method does not suffer from an intentional lesser size. It finds a speed from a proportion ratio and even accounts for the decrease in speed due to wading through water as opposed to walking unimpeded on flat ground, to which the anime is used to support the notion Zunesha is moving that fast. Then it uses a canon time frame to get a distance. The only potential issue I've seen discussed is "what if Zunesha didn't move in a straight line?"; however, I find that criticism to be a bit unfounded. Zunesha is walking through largely empty sea and thus realistically would not be zigzagging about, and furthermore the planet size is then lowballed assuming Zunesha cover half the circumference of the planet (the maximum length available to traverse in a straight path). Because Zunesha is traversing fairly open waters and because the planet size is by virtue lowballed assuming Zunesha went half its circumference, I feel both of these dissuade the notion of disregarding the calc on the basis that Zunesha zigzagged excessively.

Additionally, because the OP planet has a very "Earth-like" composition (rocky with water) I think it is fair to assume the density of Earth for finding the planet's mass and surface gravity. While I can understand skepticism, since the planet is clearly far larger than Earth; even so, the planet is a watery-rocky planet, meaning it realistically should be denser than water at the bare minimum.
 
Meh, i don't have much to add other than that i agree with the Zunesha method mainly for Arc's reasons.

And while i also agree with Mitch that the Alabasta method is way more simple i think we all can agree that pixelscaling can always become a mess in any verse at a moments notice so yeah, if we can avoid it with an equally valid calc i think we should avoid it.
 
Well, I will be the first to vouch in favor of the Alabasta version.

While the Zunesha version has no major problems with it, it basically relies on opposing-inflicting assumption, assuming Zunesha walked in a straight line, which increases the distance between point A and B to its highest value, but also assuming it's half the circumference of the planet, which obviously reduces the final result by a significant amount.
One might think one compensates for the other, but I have to disagree, since we have far too many variables to consider, like the possibility of not having a straight path to where Zunesha is going. Or the possibility of Zunesha walking further than half the circumference, or less than it.

All of these increase or decrease the results based on the assumptions made, it is somewhat unreliable even without the presence of pixelscaling.


Alabasta's calculation, however, uses a canonical size, and goes out of its way to low ball the result. Because while you can claim "art inconsistency" all you want, Tempest using that one panned out shot of Alabasta and assuming it's the entire width of the Grand Line means the calc expects and compensates in case Oda draws the Grand Line smaller.

The only assumption present in Alabasta's calculation is one that blatantly hinders it's results to a lower value, making it far safer, imo.
 
Last edited:
Will give an extended comment later today, just quickly noting that I prefer the Alabasta calc to the Zunesha calc and will explain why.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Well, I will be the first to vouch in favor of the Alabasta version.

While the Zunesha version has no major problems with it, it basically relies on opposing-inflicting assumption, assuming Zunesha walked in a straight line, which increases the distance between point A and B to its highest value, but also assuming it's half the circumference of the planet, which obviously reduces the final result by a significant amount.
One might think one compensates for the other, but I have to disagree, since we have far too many variables to consider, like the possibility of not having a straight path to where Zunesha is going. Or the possibility of Zunesha walking further than half the circumference, or less than it.

All of these increase or decrease the results based on the assumptions made, it is somewhat unreliable even without the presence of pixelscaling.
Click to expand...
Regarding the discussion of Zunesha moving in a straight line or not. I discussed it with you on discord but I want to bring it here.

We're shown that the Straw Hats latched the Thousand Sunny onto Zunesha's back left leg, or basically Southwest of Zunesha.
That picture is before the 10 day showing of Zunesha's movement.
10 days after, we see the Thousand Sunny still in the same direction that it was latched on.

If Zunesha turned, the anchor chain would've been wrapped around Zunesha's leg or somehow not in the right direction, which it was not.

So yeah, the "oh it wasn't moving straight" is false, at least for the first 10 days.
 
KingTempest said:
Regarding the discussion of Zunesha moving in a straight line or not. I discussed it with you on discord but I want to bring it here.

We're shown that the Straw Hats latched the Thousand Sunny onto Zunesha's back left leg, or basically Southwest of Zunesha.
That picture is before the 10 day showing of Zunesha's movement.
10 days after, we see the Thousand Sunny still in the same direction that it was latched on.

If Zunesha turned, the anchor chain would've been wrapped around Zunesha's leg or somehow not in the right direction, which it was not.

So yeah, the "oh it wasn't moving straight" is false, at least for the first 10 days.
Click to expand...
Nice.
I made a little concept to explain why that's completely wrong.

JKfZ23A.jpg

First, initially, Sunny is being pulled in a straight line, by a chain, thus, having a force pulling the boat in that particular direction, naturally.

But let's say Zunesha decides to turn left.
1om9u2z.jpg

Initially, Sunny would keep going straight, as naturally, the initial force pushing it didn't just disappear, but now, there's a new force pushing the boat towards the left, so it begins to tilt, while still going forward.

What happens next?
NBl6tPP.jpg

The forces makes the Sunny drift in the water diagonally, up and left.
But now, the chain is making a minor force downwards, as it tries to stay straight due to the other force (the one depicted as blue)

And finally.
n6kvowQ.jpg

The larger force cancels the smaller one out, and it's as if it never changed direction, Sunny keeps going straight in relation to the chain, and virtually nothing changes in the perspective of the boat.

Hey, that's just inertia, isn't it? Haha.
 
You’d have to consider the forces from the water on the boat as well and actually quantify it before you make that claim. Not saying that what you depicted can’t happen, but it’s meaningless unless you can prove based on the variables at play (tension in the chain, “drag” from the water, etc) that the boat would move that drastically. Else it’s just speculation.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
You’d have to consider the forces from the water on the boat as well and actually quantify it before you make that claim. Not saying that what you depicted can’t happen, but it’s meaningless unless you can prove based on the variables at play (tension in the chain, “drag” from the water, etc) that the boat would move that drastically. Else it’s just speculation.
Click to expand...
The force of a giant elephant's leg vastly outscales these variables, the sheer force it would be pushing the chain and the boat would be more than enough to "straighten" it.

Also, these are also at play when Zunesha moves it's leg forward too, water displacement would **** the direction regardless. Again, just Oda not caring about such a minor detail.

I am not saying Zunesha did turn left, or right, but just that, "being in the same direction" (in perspective) doesn't prove anything.
 
Last edited:
GodlyCharmander said:
Well, I will be the first to vouch in favor of the Alabasta version.

While the Zunesha version has no major problems with it, it basically relies on opposing-inflicting assumption, assuming Zunesha walked in a straight line, which increases the distance between point A and B to its highest value, but also assuming it's half the circumference of the planet, which obviously reduces the final result by a significant amount.
One might think one compensates for the other, but I have to disagree, since we have far too many variables to consider, like the possibility of not having a straight path to where Zunesha is going. Or the possibility of Zunesha walking further than half the circumference, or less than it.
Click to expand...
I concede on all of these points after further discussion with Tempest on Discord.
My concept was not an attempt to prove Zunesha moved, either.
GodlyCharmander said:
Alabasta's calculation, however, uses a canonical size.
Click to expand...
That's the only reason why I chose Alabasta over Zunesha now.
 
You actually just proved my point and then some by making an illustration of the Sunny going in a different direction.

Number one the movement of Zunesha curving would do many things.

Water would essentially end up on the ship if the ship is swerving at hypersonic speeds.
The ship would be damaged if it swerved and ended up hitting Zunesha's leg.
In the scenario where Zunesha was just going in a circle, the ship would be affected, which it wasn't.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also another point.
The Minks note that the island is rocking when Zunesha stops moving, and everyone swerves and buildings break, including Neko's, which means Momentum exist in this verse.

If Zunesha's huge ass started swerving on the Grand Line, the Minks would be swerving, things would be breaking, everyone would be affected all the time, which isn't the case.
 
Will get to it in more detail but you seem to think the only alternative to Zunesha traveling straight is for it to make sharp sudden turns?
 
KingTempest said:
You actually just proved my point and then some by making an illustration of the Sunny going in a different direction.
Click to expand...
What-- Tempest, perspective is a thing. It would appear to anyone who doesn't have a spatial frame of reference that Sunny was going a different direction, lmao.
KingTempest said:
Number one the movement of Zunesha curving would do many things.
Click to expand...
Same would apply to Zunesha going forward, but I digress, I'm not even arguing for Zunesha changing directions, I just didn't want people to think the two scans behind the boat was proof that it couldn't have possibly changed direction.
 
Damage3245 said:
Will get to it in more detail but you seem to think the only alternative to Zunesha traveling straight is for it to make sharp sudden turns?
Click to expand...
Zunesha's very small change in direction destroyed Zou.

If Zunesha turned in any significant direction, there'd be water on the ship

If Zunesha went in a certain path for a certain amount of time, they'd stray off course and/or end up in the Calm Belt.

There is many alternatives, but none of them canonically happened.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
What-- Tempest, perspective is a thing. It would appear to anyone who doesn't have a spatial frame of reference that Sunny was going a different direction, lmao.
Click to expand...
No disrespect but bro you could've drawn and noted it better
Screen_Shot_2022-04-21_at_12.32.01_PM.png
Screen_Shot_2022-04-21_at_12.32.11_PM.png


Like how am I supposed to know that
GodlyCharmander said:
Same would apply to Zunesha going forward, but I digress, I'm not even arguing for Zunesha changing directions, I just didn't want people to think the two scans behind the boat was proof that it couldn't have possibly changed direction.
Click to expand...
That's fair
 
Hehehehehehehehe

But yeah you said you concede on the Straight Line argument?
 
Messed up calculating the true diameter of the planet
Before, I got 962249.83252369 km
Now, I got 1011533.719524 km
 
Might not be able to go in detail until tomorrow, but will try for tonight.
 
Tbh I also prefer the Alabasta version simply because if we can pixel scale something using information given to us to get a value, it’s just a bit more accurate imo than using any kind of assumptions based on walking speed, distance, etc. not saying the other calc is wrong but that the Alabasta one requires no other assumptions aside from the standard assumptions we face when pixel scaling between different panels. My $2000000
 
I don't have time to address everything tonight, but I want to lend my thoughts first to the Zunesha version of this. I won't question the whole "Straight line" thing tonight, because I accept Zunesha was travelling in a straight line for at least part of the timeframe, just not the full 35 days. My bigger issue at the moment is the speed that is used and I'll give a breakdown of my thoughts so you can hopefully see where I'm coming from with this:

Timeline Breakdown & Zunesha's Wanderings

The Twirly-Hat Crew depart Dressrosa and arrive on Zou the next day. This is because Zunesha was relatively close to Dressrosa at the time.

Let us estimate that it took them 24 hours total to travel between Dressrosa and Zou; one full day.

By comparison, it took the Barto Club seven days to travel to Zunesha. (The Straw Hats spent multiple days on Dressrosa after the Twirly-Hat Crew departed, and we get a textbox saying "1 Week Later" after the Barto Club set off from Dressrosa and arrive at Zou)

We know why it took them much longer; because Zunesha is walking away from them, as in away from Dressrosa too. It started off closer to Dressrosa, was walking away from that direction and that is why it took the Barto Club / Straw Hats much longer to get there than the Twirly Hat crew.

So what can we tell from this?

In the ten days that Zunesha was walking away from Dressrosa, the Barto Club's ship managed to cover the same distance + the distance to Zunesha's initial location in seven days.

To break it down into some crude diagrams (forgive me):

JL2kZbz.png



As you can tell where I'm going with this; Zunesha is slower than the Straw Hat's ship and the Barto Club's ship. I don't think this is contradicted in the manga itself;


So what can we do with this information? Well, we can make a much better estimate for how fast Zunesha is actually travelling.

The Barto Club's ship uses sail power and oars to travel when sails are insufficient.

While we don't have a directly stated speed, we can make a good estimate by using the fastest known sailing ships and we have a maximum timeframe of seven days for them to catch up with Zunesha from Dressrosa.

Using that, and the ten days we know Zunesha travelled to cover an even smaller distance, we can find Zunesha's speed and we can find the distance it travelled in an approximately straight line here. (Trust me, it'll be thousands of kilometers at least)

To me, this seems like a slightly safer method than trying to do a 1-to-1 comparison between Zunesha's speed and a real-life elephant's speed.

Worth looking into at least. I'll try to address other points tomorrow when I have more time.
 
Im not knowledgeable at all but i have a question if it hasnt been brought up. Theres actually a manga panel showing the planet zoomed out with islands and all.

The thing is, alabasta is being calced as bigger than the us here. Which is big but it (or any island that is proveably not bigger than earths diameter or anything) would appear as a tiny speck or virtually invisible on the globe if the world is comparable to the sun in size.

So if the island or an island of known size is visible on the panel, wouldnt it make more sense to scale off the cannon showing of the globe or no?
 
RethPo said:
Im not knowledgeable at all but i have a question if it hasnt been brought up. Theres actually a manga panel showing the planet zoomed out with islands and all.

The thing is, alabasta is being calced as bigger than the us here. Which is big but it (or any island that is proveably not bigger than earths diameter or anything) would appear as a tiny speck or virtually invisible on the globe if the world is comparable to the sun in size.

So if the island or an island of known size is visible on the panel, wouldnt it make more sense to scale off the cannon showing of the globe or no?
Click to expand...
I mean unless Alabasta or Wano are shown on the globe scaling off of known island sizes would get hilariously small results (if there are even any known islands with sizes we can get somewhat close to are shown) it would end up being smaller then the earth which does not make sense for how it is portrayed
 
Damage3245 said:
I don't have time to address everything tonight, but I want to lend my thoughts first to the Zunesha version of this. I won't question the whole "Straight line" thing tonight, because I accept Zunesha was travelling in a straight line for at least part of the timeframe, just not the full 35 days. My bigger issue at the moment is the speed that is used and I'll give a breakdown of my thoughts so you can hopefully see where I'm coming from with this:

Timeline Breakdown & Zunesha's Wanderings

The Twirly-Hat Crew depart Dressrosa and arrive on Zou the next day. This is because Zunesha was relatively close to Dressrosa at the time.

Let us estimate that it took them 24 hours total to travel between Dressrosa and Zou; one full day.

By comparison, it took the Barto Club seven days to travel to Zunesha. (The Straw Hats spent multiple days on Dressrosa after the Twirly-Hat Crew departed, and we get a textbox saying "1 Week Later" after the Barto Club set off from Dressrosa and arrive at Zou)

We know why it took them much longer; because Zunesha is walking away from them, as in away from Dressrosa too. It started off closer to Dressrosa, was walking away from that direction and that is why it took the Barto Club / Straw Hats much longer to get there than the Twirly Hat crew.

So what can we tell from this?

In the ten days that Zunesha was walking away from Dressrosa, the Barto Club's ship managed to cover the same distance + the distance to Zunesha's initial location in seven days.

To break it down into some crude diagrams (forgive me):

JL2kZbz.png



As you can tell where I'm going with this; Zunesha is slower than the Straw Hat's ship and the Barto Club's ship. I don't think this is contradicted in the manga itself;


So what can we do with this information? Well, we can make a much better estimate for how fast Zunesha is actually travelling.

The Barto Club's ship uses sail power and oars to travel when sails are insufficient.

While we don't have a directly stated speed, we can make a good estimate by using the fastest known sailing ships and we have a maximum timeframe of seven days for them to catch up with Zunesha from Dressrosa.

Using that, and the ten days we know Zunesha travelled to cover an even smaller distance, we can find Zunesha's speed and we can find the distance it travelled in an approximately straight line here. (Trust me, it'll be thousands of kilometers at least)

To me, this seems like a slightly safer method than trying to do a 1-to-1 comparison between Zunesha's speed and a real-life elephant's speed.

Worth looking into at least. I'll try to address other points tomorrow when I have more time.
Click to expand...
Yeah no

Speed of fastest sail ships is 41 km/h
And a timeframe of 7 da7s

41 * 7 * 24 = 6888 km

That's barely above Alabasta. That's like saying Alabasta takes up a chunk of the earth
 
KingTempest said:
Yeah no

Speed of fastest sail ships is 41 km/h
And a timeframe of 7 da7s

41 * 7 * 24 = 6888 km

That's barely above Alabasta. That's like saying Alabasta takes up a chunk of the earth
Click to expand...
Except I'm not proposing that figure be used for length of the New World.

I think you misinterpreted part of my post, which is understandable. I wasn't trying to say those seven days of journeying is what we assume to be the length of the New World.
 
Damage3245 said:
Except I'm not proposing that figure be used for length of the New World.
Click to expand...
The figure would be used for a vague portion of the new world which we can't account for at all unless we lowball it, and it'd be baseless to say it's the width or something
 
KingTempest said:
The figure would be used for a vague portion of the new world which we can't account for at all unless we lowball it, and it'd be baseless to say it's the width or something
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it is the width, and I wouldn't say it is a specific percentage of the New World.

The post up above is just detailing an alternative method to find Zunesha's speed.
 
Damage3245 said:
I wouldn't say it is the width, and I wouldn't say it is a specific percentage of the New World.

The post up above is just detailing an alternative method to find Zunesha's speed.
Click to expand...
Well that would get a smaller result than the Alabasta method, which has pretty much been accepted to be the absolute lowest we'd go as of right now, so I don't think we'd even need to blog that.

And since it's obvious the Zunesha calc that I blogged won't be accepted even if hell froze over regardless of whatever argument I pull, I guess the Alabasta method is the one
 
KingTempest said:
Well that would get a smaller result than the Alabasta method, which has pretty much been accepted to be the absolute lowest we'd go as of right now, so I don't think we'd even need to blog that.

And since it's obvious the Zunesha calc that I blogged won't be accepted even if hell froze over regardless of whatever argument I pull, I guess the Alabasta method is the one
Click to expand...
It probably would. I'm more in favor of the Alabasta method than the Zunesha one anyway. I was just going into detail of how I'd improve the Zunesha version of the calc if it was up to me.

I might blog it myself later for fun, but it's unnecessary at the moment if we're settling on the Alabasta version.
 
Probably should get 1 more Calc Group Member's thoughts. So far only Mitch and I have responded.
 
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