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- #161
Dale you're the best
This is 3:1 consistently with us 2 bringing the same 2 damn points
This is 3:1 consistently with us 2 bringing the same 2 damn points
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One Piece: ANOTHER Dressrosa Size Revision
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
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I'll do my best to explain:
The gist of Method 4 is that it is finding the unknown distance X by using two variables:
1) The timeframe it takes for the Birdcage to completely close up after Doflamingo starts moving the walls of the Birdcage inwards. (1 hour)
2) The speed at which the Birdcage is moving after Doflamingo starts moving it.
If you known how fast something is going over a certain amount of time, you find the distance it has covered, which is then being extrapolated into the full diameter of Dressrosa.
Now, the issue is that the Birdcage's speed is not one consistent variable. There are two events which impact it after Doflamingo starts moving it.
1) Doflamingo starts moving the Birdcage even faster.
2) The characters work to slow the Birdcage down after Doflamingo sped it up.
The scene that is being used to calculate the Birdcage's speed currently comes in between the two scans there, from the anime adaptation of this page. But let's say that they're already slowing the Birdcage down by an unknown amount anyway in that scan.
The issue is that two variables are being conflated here; the initial speed of the Birdcage, and the speed of the Birdcage after Doflamingo sped it up and other characters are attempting to slow it down.
No evidence-based reason has been given for why the calced 9.87552 m/s speed is the same as initial speed of the Birdcage. What KT said on that was this:
No evidence for why 9.87552 m/s should be used for the 1 hour timeframe.
CloverDragon and SnookB insist that using this speed makes the calc a lowball - without explaining why they think that its initial speed must be at least higher than 9.87552 m/s. The characters working to slow the Birdcage down isn't enough because at the point that the Birdcage's speed was calced it is not said or implied that they slowed it down to slower than its initial movement. At best all it would be is slower than the speed it was after Doflamingo sped it up.
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It very much so is implied.
The bird cage limit was 3 minutes whereas Luffy's recovery limit was 4 minutes. And by the time Luffy recovered, the bird cage was still towns and towns wide instead of being much closer to Doflamingo to close up in a minute.
The forces pushing it back must've stalled it by 1 whole minute first (for the Gear 4 restart), and then an unknown, possibly bigger timeframe of fluctuating speeds due to the cage being nowhere near Doflamingo when it should've had a single minute left to close up.
The only way that would be possible is if the bird cage suddenly SHUTS once it's kilometer or so from Doflamingo, which is nowhere implied or mentioned.
The implication that it was drastically slowed and the 1 hour timeframe being a fair estimate is pretty safe.
Your argument against it in a roundabout way falls on the fact that the bird cage was narratively proven to be actually even slower and can most definitely upgrade the distance by some change's worth.
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That isn't true.
When the 4 minutes timeframe is up, you can see the Birdcage is cutting into the royal plateau and has pushed the factory as far back as the colosseum.
That is very close to being in line with where the circle marking the center of the Dressrosa is on this map.
So what the Birdcage was going to reach in 3 minutes, the fighters managed to slow it down to around 4 minutes.
The three minute timeframe isn't for when the Birdcage completely closes; it's for when it reaches the center of Dressrosa and starts causing mass deaths.
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That's 4 seconds timeframe. Everybody is literally counting down the seconds on that page.
By then the birdcage should've been way, way closer to doflamingo since it should reach his exact location by the countdown, whereas it was nowhere near by the time Luffy recovered.
Luffy's recovery was a minute longer than the birdcage's TRUE TIMEFRAME of enclosure. It was so blatantly stalled for Luffy since by the time he recovers (4 minutes) the bird cage should've touched Doflamingo (3 minutes)
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Yes... 4 seconds until the 4 minute timeframe is up. They're literally counting down to when Luffy will be back on his feet and fighting.
Not true, as I just explained above. The three minute timeframe is not for it reaching his exact location.
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SnookB.... Why do you think I brought up the fact that Doflamingo accelerated the rate at which the Birdcage was closing? The 1 hour time limit is irrelevant later on because the Birdcage is closing faster.
If it's closing faster, then it'll be closed sooner than the 1 hour timeframe given by Doflamingo earlier.
And that countdown wasn't for the Birdcage closing as I also already explained; they were counting down to Luffy's recovery being done as they were told by Gatz.
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I'll suspend my belief for a second and assume you're right.
Despite the fact that it's reiterated that the Bird Cage will be responsible for the entire populace dying whether Doflamingo wins his fight or not.
If its 'center' was this specific area, it'd fail at killing almost everybody because they'd fit in that area anyway.
But let's assume that specific radius is the absolute limit of thinness the Bird Cage can achieve within a ONE HOUR LIMIT
It not only FAILS at that after one hour and one minute, since we clearly see it behind the mountain still by the time LUFFY'S countdown is over (which is a minute's delay)
It's also not that close after the King Kong Gun exchange, which was a fight in of itself
The fact that the Dressrosa Populace knew the one hour countdown was still a thing means the Bird Cage speeding up was just it picking back pace and returning to its regular one hour timeframe, rather than suddenly accelerating to cut the distance/time by half.
This is proven by the fact that:
The bird cage didn't reach the center after a WHOLE MINUTE of its original timeframe
The bird cage didn't reach the center even a while after said minute during the final exchange
The bird cage even after accelerating didn't reach the center prior to the 1 minute delay and countdown
The fact that it's slowed so drastically alone proves the 1 hour frame is not an issue. Saying it was shorter contradicts the narrative purpose of the countdown. And saying it was longer (which it is) just adds an unknown value to the distance that's probably just a few extra hundred meters.
This again, is assuming Doflamingo's location and 'Every Last citizen' dying to the bird cage are somehow limited by that massive distance between the palace and the mountain.
Despite the fact that it's reiterated that the Bird Cage will be responsible for the entire populace dying whether Doflamingo wins his fight or not.
If its 'center' was this specific area, it'd fail at killing almost everybody because they'd fit in that area anyway.
But let's assume that specific radius is the absolute limit of thinness the Bird Cage can achieve within a ONE HOUR LIMIT
It not only FAILS at that after one hour and one minute, since we clearly see it behind the mountain still by the time LUFFY'S countdown is over (which is a minute's delay)
It's also not that close after the King Kong Gun exchange, which was a fight in of itself
The fact that the Dressrosa Populace knew the one hour countdown was still a thing means the Bird Cage speeding up was just it picking back pace and returning to its regular one hour timeframe, rather than suddenly accelerating to cut the distance/time by half.
This is proven by the fact that:
The bird cage didn't reach the center after a WHOLE MINUTE of its original timeframe
The bird cage didn't reach the center even a while after said minute during the final exchange
The bird cage even after accelerating didn't reach the center prior to the 1 minute delay and countdown
The fact that it's slowed so drastically alone proves the 1 hour frame is not an issue. Saying it was shorter contradicts the narrative purpose of the countdown. And saying it was longer (which it is) just adds an unknown value to the distance that's probably just a few extra hundred meters.
This again, is assuming Doflamingo's location and 'Every Last citizen' dying to the bird cage are somehow limited by that massive distance between the palace and the mountain.
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This specifically contradicts that.
The time remaining doesn't change, and luffy's 1 minute delay doesn't change. We literally get a narrator box comparing the minute length difference of the bird cage's speed and Luffy's recovery.
All of the reasons/scans sent above this post show why the bird cage accelerating changed little to nothing about its assumed location limit and it still failed to deliver on its original hour timeframe even after accelerating.
You're so vehemently against the safest damn assumption, so why not offer a fix? I hope you won't just say "leave it unusable" like so many other calcs on this verse, despite this one being such a on the nose lowball.
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@SnookB; I'm sorry, but you're conflating two different events here.
Nobody said anything about the Birdcage only reaching the outskirts of the center at the end of the 1 hour time limit.
Like... I'm sorry for such a short post, but it doesn't feel like you're responding to my arguments. You're making up your own version of my arguments to respond to instead of getting what I'm saying.
Nobody said anything about the Birdcage only reaching the outskirts of the center at the end of the 1 hour time limit.
Like... I'm sorry for such a short post, but it doesn't feel like you're responding to my arguments. You're making up your own version of my arguments to respond to instead of getting what I'm saying.
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You're the one that sent this
But if you no longer believe that-
Then it should've pretty much moved WAY FASTER and yet failed to do so in said hour to even reach said outskirts, which yet again proves that 1 hour time limit is a safe lowball.
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SnookB; that panel has nothing to do with the 1 hour timeframe, you understand?
Because Doflamingo made the Birdcage shrink faster.
It taking 3 minutes to reach the center area after Doflamingo made it faster means that the 1 hour timeframe is now irrelevant. Because it's shrinking faster than it was when the timeframe of 1 hour was given.
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It's unusable. The bird cage's speed was contested for the entire hour timeframe and was fluctuating (slowing down) so many times and even stopping for several seconds at some point that the 1 hour timeframe is pretty much a lowball.
The fact that it didn't reach its destination even post-acceleration with damn near two minutes of extra time proves it.
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- Thread starter
- #178
Ain't no way in hell we still talking about this
Damage you've already explained these arguments and they didn't agree. We don't need to wait for them to disagree before we move on.
I would be fully in my rights to close this thread right now I hope you know that
Damage you've already explained these arguments and they didn't agree. We don't need to wait for them to disagree before we move on.
I would be fully in my rights to close this thread right now I hope you know that
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@KingTempest; believe me, I'm more frustrated than you when it comes to this because SnookB is not actually addressing my arguments. I'm still posting about this topic because he doesn't seem to understand me and is responding to something else.
No other CGM besides Clover has actually addressed my argument either.
And if Dalesean or M3X believes that there is no issue here, I'd like for them to explain why.
No other CGM besides Clover has actually addressed my argument either.
And if Dalesean or M3X believes that there is no issue here, I'd like for them to explain why.
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Wait so like was the bird cage being contested and fluctuating in speed the entire hour or just during that last bit?
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- Thread starter
- #181
No you're not.
Personally, although that's my guy, I don't care about SnookB right now. He can agree or disagree and his vote wouldn't change.
All he's doing is explaining my points more for me.
You've said the same thing 3 or 4 times to the 3-4 fluctuating CGMs in here in hopes of them changing their views.
They accepted the calc. We switched. They accepted the new calc. You explained your gripes. They still accepted the new calc.
There is literally no good reason for this to be open. I'm fully inclined to close this right now.
For that last bit. They first started to think about contest it's movement towards the end, where the movement is.
That's why in the video where it fluctuates in speed, Franky is screaming "push"
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Pretty much ever since it was first pointed out by kinemon and kanjuro+it's unknown timeframe where it stopped+more fluctuating speeds due to it not reaching its destination by the time the countdown ended.
Not to mention, the countdown never actually changes. The narrator insits it's 3 minutes, then says it's 3 minutes again, then says it's 1 minute. It never states the bird cage's speeds suddenly accelerated at a far higher rate, it just compares its recovery to Luffy's own, which scales to its pre-acceleration speed.
So either Luffy recovered faster (which he physically can't)
or the bird cage moved at the same pace of its hour mark
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Not one of them has explained why the point I've brought up isn't an issue.
This discussion is still ongoing.
SnookB; who argued that the Birdcage accelerated to a far higher rate after the 3 minute timeframe was given? I certainly didn't.
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"It never states the bird cage's speeds suddenly accelerated at a far higher rate"
Huh?
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Ok so KT said just for the last bit and Snook said “pretty much” when I asked an either or question 
but it seems like Snook is saying it fluctuates the whole hour while KT says just the last bit, so like Snook can you be more explicit in whether you’re arguing it fluctuated the whole hour or just the last bit.
but it seems like Snook is saying it fluctuates the whole hour while KT says just the last bit, so like Snook can you be more explicit in whether you’re arguing it fluctuated the whole hour or just the last bit.
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I said it fluctuates ever since kinemon points it out
Which was (I believe) moments before the final 3 minutes
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- Thread starter
- #188
They don't need to.
When did we start needing to say exactly why we agree.
Kachon linked
1. Your issues
2. My rebuttals
And they said "it's fine".
Wtf is the problem
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The only reason I can think you'd mention that is if somebody else argued that the Birdcage's speed suddenly accelerated to a far higher rate and you were arguing against that.
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Aight thanks for the clarification lol, cuz it sounded like you were arguing it fluctuated the entire time rather than just the last ~3 minutes
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Only Clover and Dalesean said it's fine after that. M3X's last post was that he'd look through it soon.
And I want them to explain why so that this doesn't get finished solely because they misunderstood my arguments.
Why would you not want them to explain their thought process for this so that we're all on the same page?
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- Thread starter
- #192
Oh my god
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M3X said this about other methods, not about Method 4
Anyways, I've explained why I think Method 4 is fine before. I'm allowed to just... not be convinced by your rebuttals
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Because they were linked both arguments and they don't agree with yours.
They are smart, fully functioning individuals. There's no reason for us to assume they misunderstood what you were saying, especially when you've been saying it for like 2 weeks straight.
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We're not on a dire time limit here KT. There's nothing wrong with wanting them to actually explain their position.
The issue with Method 4 was first posted two days ago.
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@Arc7Kuroi Yeah, I double checked. When Kinemon/Kanjuro make the comment of it slowing down (before it stops for several seconds), the bird cage has a stated timeframe of 3 minutes prior (788)
And once it re-accelerates to overwhelm the contesting forces, it doesn't accelerate fast enough to pass its prior speeds, since it fails to reach the threshold of its original speed's destination despite that same timeframe not changing.
1 hour TOTAL is basically ignoring the fact that for the last few minutes it slowed down, stopped, and got contested.
And once it re-accelerates to overwhelm the contesting forces, it doesn't accelerate fast enough to pass its prior speeds, since it fails to reach the threshold of its original speed's destination despite that same timeframe not changing.
1 hour TOTAL is basically ignoring the fact that for the last few minutes it slowed down, stopped, and got contested.
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- Thread starter
- #197
Damage there has never been a thread that has passed in this verse's history where we needed staff to explain their positions after they agree/disagree like they're middle schoolers in a debate class.
Even in threads that went in your favor you haven't done that. So now that it's semi-unanimous we gotta make sure that they read it right?
Are you serious?
Not on a dire time limit ≠ you wasting time being accepted
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I've been slightly following this thread on my free time, what method is to be used if Method 4 isn't valid?
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Another Calc Group Member I've messaged seems to agree with me (the message was just linking to my explanation further up the thread and asking what they think). Currently waiting for them to post on this thread and clarify their position officially.
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