One Piece: Kenbunshoku Haki Mental Resistance

[KingTempest]

Haki should get a resistance to Illusion Creation and Mind Manipulation.

Rayleigh said that Observation Haki is beyond tricks of the mind and that Observation Haki is a subconscious sense.

This is supported by Kaidou saying that Haki can transcend all, which includes Devil Fruits and non Devil Fruit abilities, which includes abilities of illusionists and hypnotists like Brook, Mont D'Or, and Miss Goldenweek.

Supported by Mont D'or's Devil Fruit being based on imagination (which Observation Haki is beyond [Rayleigh's quote]), and we see that before Mont D'or's book is completely closed and before all of the events of the "illusion" that Luffy is in die out, Luffy can see the outside of the illusion from the previous page.

I really don't care if it is likely or possibly or not. I just thought of it.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Im leaning towards it being “likely” for now

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Hmmmmm, likely seems fine

 

[theultimate5105]

Miss Goldenweek is not confirmed as a Devil Fruit user (Might be wrong feel free to correct me)

 

[KingTempest]

Miss Goldenweek is not confirmed as a Devil Fruit user (Might be wrong feel free to correct me)

which includes Devil Fruits and non Devil Fruit abilities

 

[TheForgottenKing]

Likely seems fine to me

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with the proposal and it being Likely but I disagree with this bit;

This is supported by Kaidou saying that Haki can transcend all, which includes Devil Fruits and non Devil Fruit abilities, which includes abilities of illusionists and hypnotists like Brook, Mont D'Or, and Miss Goldenweek.

It's a stretch to try and apply Kaido's statement to this. That's like saying any attack with Haki is superior to any non-Haki attack.

It's just an unrelated boast from Kaido.

 

[Kachon123]

I agree

For real though, Likely seems to be best in my opinion.

 

[SnookB]

This is supported by Kaidou saying that Haki can transcend all, which includes Devil Fruits and non Devil Fruit abilities,

That statement is extremely broad, as it means Haki> a few other very busted abilities in the verse. Which for a while I've honestly had the thought that yes, it SHOULD. Because I very highly doubt Kaido would lose his shadow to Moria, or be turned to a toy by sugar, or get slowed by noro noro, etc-- The fact that we now know god tiers' Haki passively can resist soul manip, space manip and matter manip makes "every devil fruit ability" falling under its scope of resistances (ONLY for the god tiers, as a god tier made the claim about another god tier) should be looked at.



But back to the topic-- yes. Absolutely. It already resists two(?) forms of mind manip, and Luffy seeing outside of the book world was definitely an instance of Kenbunshoku since it supports rayleigh's claim about mind tricks. Nothing contradictory, so I agree.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Does this Works on memory manipulation? Such like Sugar ability

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Haki resisting any devil fruit hax should be verse-specific. But given Rayleigh statement, I agree with likely resistance to mind manip. and illusions.

 

[XDragnoir]

I have no problem with resistance to illusion creation due to Ray's quote, but Mind Manipulation is too broad of a power to give resistance with so little info/feats, like, what would the Mont D'or feat even fall into? Cause from what i understand, his power is still a pocket dimension even if imagination is somewhat related to it so Luffy was just seeing the outside of a pocket dimension there and that's not really a mind resistance feat.

 

[Damage3245]

I have no problem with resistance to illusion creation due to Ray's quote, but Mind Manipulation is too broad of a power to give resistance with so little info/feats, like, what would the Mont D'or feat even fall into? Cause from what i understand, his power is still a pocket dimension even if imagination is somewhat related to it so Luffy was just seeing the outside of a pocket dimension there and that's not really a mind resistance feat.

Good point. Resistance to Mind Manipulation doesn't seem warranted.

 

[SnookB]

Good point. Resistance to Mind Manipulation doesn't seem warranted.

Doesn't resistance to mind manip stay regardless, due to willpower resisting the shadows taking over you, and Luffy showing resistance to the mind control from that one girl in Little Garden? Maybe not this kind, but it's still not entirely "not warranted".

Haki resisting any devil fruit hax should be verse-specific.

Big disagree.
Devil fruits are conduits of abilities, not an exclusive source. The natural elements and laws/abilities still exist outside of the DF and can be effected by the ability (e.g Crocodile's ability effecting the sands of alabasta, Rumble Rumble's lightning effecting actual regular weather/clouds that have nothing to do with the df, and more) They shouldn't be treated as "resistance to devil fruits" but as "resistance to ABILITIES given by devil fruits". Even Rayleigh words it that way. Haki is supremacy over everything else, even if it's channeled through a DF.

 

[KingTempest]

I have no problem with resistance to illusion creation due to Ray's quote, but Mind Manipulation is too broad of a power to give resistance with so little info/feats, like, what would the Mont D'or feat even fall into? Cause from what i understand, his power is still a pocket dimension even if imagination is somewhat related to it so Luffy was just seeing the outside of a pocket dimension there and that's not really a mind resistance feat.

Nah, that isn't a pocket dimension. His "pocket dimension" is literally people getting put in big books.
This isn't that, this is people getting faced with illusions

 

[SnookB]

Nah, that isn't a pocket dimension. His "pocket dimension" is literally people getting put in big books.
This isn't that, this is people getting faced with illusions

Straight from the wiki:
"The biggest strength of this fruit is the ability to trap living things inside a book's setting. This can be done in two ways. First, by hovering an open book above the target, they will be placed under the visual illusion that they are within the book's world, which will cease once the book is shut.[1] Secondly, the user can physically trap targets inside a book, turning them into an illustration within that book, where they will not age; Mont-d'Or is usually seen pinning down his captives with oversized nails, [3] which are seemingly unbreakable.[4] A person can travel in and out of a book at will by inserting a special bookmark into the page.[5]"

Basically

He shows you the book: it's illusions are the book's contents being brought out to you
He nails you to the book: It's a physical pocket dimension that you're then part of as a literal illustration of the book's contents

 

[XDragnoir]

Okay so they are just illusions then? Btw i really didn't remember that part of his powers LMAO.

Anyway, illusion creation resistance is valid, still disagree with anything else tho.

 

[SamanPatou]

I also disagree with resistance to illusions, because Rayleigh just mentions generic tricks of the mind like Luffy talking about using his immagination, but actual illusionins targeting your brain and senses are a thing on a different level than generic lack of focus, especially if no actual feat backs this up.

 

[SnookB]

For the time being resistance to illusions is far better than "likely" for hypnosis imo
Better be sure than spectulative

 

[XDragnoir]

I also disagree with resistance to illusions, because Rayleigh just mentions generic tricks of the mind like Luffy talking about using his immagination, but actual illusionins targeting your brain and senses are a thing on a different level than generic lack of focus, especially if no actual feat backs this up.

Yeah but the feat against Mont D'or is a feat against illusions.

 

[SnookB]

I also disagree with resistance to illusions, because Rayleigh just mentions generic tricks of the mind like Luffy talking about using his immagination, but actual illusionins targeting your brain and senses are a thing on a different level than generic lack of focus, especially if no actual feat backs this up.

Think of it this way

Mont D'or's illusions are limited by his imagination only
Luffy sees beyond Mont D'or's illusions because his haki sees beyond Mont D'or's own imagination

It's consistent with:

• Luffy resisting miss goldenweek's mind control
• Luffy and Sanji's shadows (part of their soul basically) resisting the shadows pact mind control and the 100 shadows madness for the former
• Whitebeard being able to sense the world around and detect danger even in his sleep

They're all regular cases of resistance to mind control, but NOT hypnosis. There's no "lack of feats" because there are other instances where characters actively sensed outside of or flat out resisted hax relating to mind control in one way or another.

It is a feat against illusions but not mind control

 

[XDragnoir]

They're all regular cases of resistance to mind control, but NOT hypnosis.

But the first two feats aren't even related to Kenbu and the third is someone sleeping not under some mind control or even sleep hax at the very least, i get that dreams aren't that far from illusions but c'mon, they aren't close to mind control at all.

 

[KingTempest]

So likely illusion and no mind manip?

 

[SnookB]

So likely illusion and no mind manip?

Issue is, mind manip is already within one of its resistances, no? Unless it's just dependant on layers?
For illusions it shouldn't be "likely" since the feat is so very clear. For mind manip on the level of hypnosis (which is what the feat was initially seeming like) then it's a no.

 

[SnookB]

But the first two feats aren't even related to Kenbu and the third is someone sleeping not under some mind control or even sleep hax at the very least, i get that dreams aren't that far from illusions but c'mon, they aren't close to mind control at all.

They're related to willpower. Willpower is related to haki in the verse. It's not Kenbu, but it's still an aspect of Haki, which Kenbun is just one section of.

 

[KingTempest]

Issue is, mind manip is already within one of its resistances, no? Unless it's just dependant on layers?
For illusions it shouldn't be "likely" since the feat is so very clear. For mind manip on the level of hypnosis (which is what the feat was initially seeming like) then it's a no.

Mind manip isn't in the resistances of kenbun, it's just in the resistances of people with strong willpower.

Blatant Illusion resistance I'm fine with, but others need to be fine with it as well

They're related to willpower. Willpower is related to haki in the verse. It's not Kenbu, but it's still an aspect of Haki, which Kenbun is just one section of.

Not really, not all Haki is tied to willpower

 

[SnookB]

Not really, not all Haki is tied to willpower

So willpower correlates to what? Haoshoku only? Or just its own thing since there are haoshokuless characters that resist certain things too?

Blatant Illusion resistance I'm fine with, but others need to be fine with it as well

I mean- same. Luffy seeing through Mont D'or's world which is "limited by imagination" and Kenbun being "beyond imagination" are two things that seem closely tied imo

 

[KingTempest]

So willpower correlates to what? Haoshoku only? Or just its own thing since there are haoshokuless characters that resist certain things too?

Haoshoku mainly since it strengthens by characters growing in willpower. Kenbun and Buso are based on spiritual energy, which is why it can run out.
But willpower is something throughout the verse.

I mean- same. Luffy seeing through Mont D'or's world which is "limited by imagination" and Kenbun being "beyond imagination" are two things that seem closely tied imo

That's fair

 

[KingTempest]

bump

 

[Eminiteable]

I agree with the likely resistance to illusion manip

 

[SnookB]

Agree as well. "Likely" is the safest bet, since it counters visual illusions but there's no proof yet of it resisting illusions that target your mind directly.

 

[KobsterHope07]

bump