One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[SlendVeny]

They don't nullify Jinbe's, that's not what I said.

Ah, my mistake.

Big Mom attacked other characters in WCI (Chopper for example) so we'd have to upgrade them to 5C too and these upgrades would have a pretty noticeable impact on scaling as 5C would start much sooner.

Guard Point Chopper wouldn't scale to anyone. At best, it'd scale to Monster Point, maybe, and that isn't an outlier, just means he didn't have a huge jump from WCI to Onigashima.

I mean, you straight up said he blocked 3 Homies BM (it actually was 2 Homies but anyway) and from the way you were comparing them, you seem to have Jinbe's feats above Queen's, isn't the end result from this Jinbe scaling to Base Big Mom? Above or not, Jinbe would at the very least be comparable going by what you said.

I just think that hungry BM with 2 homies should scale somewhere in the ballpark of her base, and Buso Jinbe was basically not at all damaged, just sent flying, and then he knocked her back with no Buso, just Fishman Karate, which may have been enhanced by her being covered in water. That and my personal thoughts on where WW scales puts Serious Buso Jinbe above base or Zoan Queen imo.

Also, how many people have tried to upgrade WCI/Wano Jinbe to top tier by now? Doubt it would go through even if we tried.

It won't, unless we get a databook statement.

 

[Kachon123]

Kachon is a pu ssy.

Get a life.

 

[XDragnoir]

I just think that hungry BM with 2 homies should scale somewhere in the ballpark of her base, and Buso Jinbe was basically not at all damaged, just sent flying, and then he knocked her back with no Buso, just Fishman Karate, which may have been enhanced by her being covered in water. That and my personal thoughts on where WW scales puts Serious Buso Jinbe above base or Zoan Queen imo.

Fair points, what are your thoughts about WW tho? You have him scaling around Hybrid Jack and the Scabbards?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also, what about the Katakuri statement where he's saying he's just warping around the attacks? Is that only because of Luffy having Buso?

yee

When was this?

There's probably more in alabasta

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Logia's don't need to be on-guard to transform. Thats well established.

Enel did it while SLEEPING.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Blackbeard countered the R-Room with haki in the anime. I just looked again at the fight in the manga and he did it there too, I didn't notice that the first time I read that chapter. So now it's confirmed haki can counter Law's Awakening.

 

[Kachon123]

Jinbe in no way should be compared to Queen based on their fights against Big Mom, and Jinbe most definitely should not scale to 5-C based on his own fight with her.

Literally right before their encounter, Big Mom's entire top commanders were commenting on how she's extremely slim and this was the thinnest they've seen her showing genuine and visible, with Big Mom confirming their statements in the next panels, even going as far as groaning in pain from how hungry she was. Hell, she could barely even stand. Despite that, Jinbe was visible struggling hard to block the Cognac swing, and the moment Big Mom added the slightest amount of power, Jinbe got his chest and block sliced open and got sent flying. Right after, Big Mom stated that she was "dying" of hunger, further showing that she was progressively losing power and getting weaker. After this, Jinbe gets back up and hits Big Mom with a water-enhanced Vagabond Drill (one oh his strongest attacks), and despite it having a durability negating aspect to it (we see the shockwaves enter Big Mom's body), he couldn't get a single reacting out of Big Mom. In fact, she literally did not acknowledge the attack, laughing and getting up literal seconds after landing on Zeus. Even Nami with Zeus' lightning could do more to Big Mom, causing her to yell and fall over in pain instead of just being pushed back and standing up immediately after like what happened when Jinbe attacked.

People often use Big Mom saying that she was "hungry" or the fact that she was suffering from amnesia to slander Queen and call him weak, but saying that without looking at the context makes no sense. Big Mom definitely was both hungry and suffering from amnesia, but we know that when she is in this state, she remains just as strong as before if not far stronger. As a kid, Big Mom became very hungry and showed strength far greater than she showed before, being able to oneshot the Giant Chief with a single throw. What's interesting about this is that Big Mom was also suffering from amnesia during these events, not remembering anything afterwards. So no, Big Mom was not weakened by her hunger or amnesia, but instead likely became stronger due to her anger (which makes sense logically due to showing less her restraint). People also try to use her amnesia to say that she was unable to use Haki, which is complete headcanon. We know for a fact that Big Mom coats herself with Buso passively, meaning that it's usage is not one that needs to be activated consciously. Oda even made an entire plotline centered around the fact that the ONLY TIME that she is capable of taking damage from people who aren't 5-C while being healthy when she Carmel's picture gets broken. This weakens her so much so that falling onto her knees would cause her to bleed. A Base Big Mom with no homies that was angry was unable to draw blood with a point black strike to Zoan Queen's face, and could only cause him to bleed after spinning him around several times and throwing him at a wall. Queen was confirmed to be pretending to be knocked out due to him being a big coward so don't come with the "Queen was two-shot" bs. So Queen was able to take 2 attacks from an enraged Big Mom with her only being able to draw blood and not deal lasting damage shown by the lack of any scratches and the lack of any sign of fatigue from Queen after getting hit. Queen was also able to (with an attack that is logically below the likes of his regular and germa tech attacks) cause Big Mom's bones to make cracking noises with the shock from his attack being so potent that it was able to reverse the amnesia and cause her head to hurt. And before you say that Big Mom's headache was a result of her brain regaining memories and not a direct result of Queen's headbutt, that makes absolutely 0 sense. We literally see Big Mom directly when she wakes after getting amnesia and she makes no mention of any headaches.

So comparing Jinbe and Queen,

Jinbe:

Fought starving and very skinny Big Mom that could barely walk
Struggled to block even when using Buso
Lost in a power struggle after the slightest amount of force was applied
Had his block blown apart and his chest cut up
Was unable to damage her despite using one of his strongest attacks that also uses some durability negation
Got outdone by Nami moments Later

Queen:

Fought a version of Base Big Mom that is just as strong if not more powerful than her standard Base
Tanked an attack without any damage to show from it
Took an amped attack from Hunger Pang Big Mom without any lasting damage despite not defending himself
Recovered near-instantly without any scratches, fatigue, or blood
Cracked Big Mom's skull
Attacked her with enough force to make her regain her memories
Made her head hurt so much that her first thought revolved around it
All without using Haki and only 1 named attack

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji vs yamato?

Sanji wins high diff at most

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

They actually showed us the Cracker vs Kuzan and Van fight and Van Auger is able to easily obliterate the biscuit soldiers with a single shot. Van's bullets > Early whole cake G4 easy and Jean can tank these shots. Damn the anime is destroyed Cracker lol Big Mom commanders trash compared to the other Yonko commanders fr.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Get a life.

Oh my lord am I finally being cancelled for making a tame joke??

 

[XDragnoir]

Logia's don't need to be on-guard to transform. Thats well established.

Enel did it while SLEEPING.

Enel had Kenbu tho, which is active subconsciously if you master it, that probably helps him.

Smoker has been hit twice (one by the ice cream kid and the other by Luffy in Alabasta, Ace was also hit twice in this scene with Luffy) when off guard.

Unless it was retconed at some point by a statement later on (possibly the case) Logias really didn't seem to be elemental 100% of the time at the start.

 

[SlendVeny]

Everyone in Onigashima was getting peak treatment except Brook(Though he did good, and I'm proud of him). I really wish the Thriller Bark connections came up. Moria, Ryuma, the Rocks Pirates... all of them were present on Thriller Bark.

That said, the things I think wouldve been coolest for the lower-level crew members at Onigashima would have been if everyone there fought back for a few minutes when Kaidou said Luffy was dead, even if they got knocked out in one hit. Not only would this provide concrete scaling for characters, it'd be a cool way for Jinbe to really establish himself as a crewmate, show Usopp to not be a coward, and lead to some cool moments. I mean, imagine this:

-Everyone is afraid
-Nami stands up and starts talking shit
-Kaidou fires on her, Marco blocks it
-Kaidou monologues more
-Nami shoots at him with Zeus
-Kaidou is slightly burned by this, gets confused about why she has BM's power, comes down in Base Form, and starts laughing
-Marco jumps in again, and Kaidou beats his injured ass with Hao infusion
-The "fodder" Straw Hats get beat down like they did against Kuma, except this is with everyone putting in some serious work, and Kaidou having to dodge Radical Beam, and actually needing a bit of effort against MP Chopper(Though he goes down in one hit once Kaidou starts trying, and he only would have to try because he just got back from fighting Luffy), and the only one able to really hold him for any amount of time is Nico Robin jabbing him in the eyes with Demonio Fleur arms from behind and blinding him for a couple seconds by teleporting around(Honestly I just really want Robin scaling because she's really cool and some fans don't appreciate how badass she is). All of them, across the fight, iterate that Kaidou can't be right, and that Luffy must be alive, giving Usopp a moment to cement himself as a proud warrior of the sea, and awaken his Haki again, but it's also futile.
-Jinbe comes in, but is being held back by a horde of Beast Pirates, and worrying if Luffy can be alive. He's about to look down there with his Haki, but then thinks about it, and realizes it doesn't matter, Luffy has to be alive, because his crew believes it. As that happens, the Heart and Kid Pirates drop in and tear a hole through the enemy lines, giving him time to catch up, and he also gets his ass beat, but it takes Kaidou a solid few hits.
-Kaidou is established as having fully regenerated.
-They hear a laugh from offscreen.

It's a little fanfic-y and "power of friendship," but I kinda like the idea. Another thing I would've liked is Gear 5th Red Hawk, maybe with the people Ace had befriended thinking about him.

 

[SlendVeny]

yee

There's probably more in alabasta

I don't think Crocodile would have really been in his non-sand form with all these guys looking at him, but Doflamingo was kinda dumb for not using Haki here. Bro is trying so hard to be funny that it actively harms him.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I don't think Crocodile would have really been in his non-sand form with all these guys looking at him, but Doflamingo was kinda dumb for not using Haki here. Bro is trying so hard to be funny that it actively harms him.

He either was trolling like you said or they have similar Haki levels so it didn't work

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Honestly, the idea of the weaker strawhats desperately trying to hold off Kaido in some final stand would be beyond badass ngl.

Imagining Usopp desperately launching everything in his arsenal at Kaido in a vain attempt to harm him. Fire, explosives, plants, literally showering him with a hail of attacks...just for Kaido to slowly walk towards him. Only for Monster Point to slam his hand into Kaidou, knocking him away, followed Robin attempting to restrain him. Jinbe rushing in with an intense Vagabond Drill directly into Kaido's chest.

It would contribute so much to Usopp's character especially, for him to attempt to attack Kaido in a situation like that. Would really show him becoming a "Brave Warrior" in a way, especially since characters far stronger than him have bowed down to Kaido's rule (Hawkin's for example)

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Honestly, the idea of the weaker strawhats desperately trying to hold off Kaido in some final stand would be beyond badass ngl.

Imagining Usopp desperately launching everything in his arsenal at Kaido in a vain attempt to harm him. Fire, explosives, plants, literally showering him with a hail of attacks...just for Kaido to slowly walk towards him. Only for Monster Point to slam his hand into Kaidou, knocking him away, followed Robin attempting to restrain him. Jinbe rushing in with an intense Vagabond Drill directly into Kaido's chest.

It would contribute so much to Usopp's character especially, for him to attempt to attack Kaido in a situation like that. Would really show him becoming a "Brave Warrior" in a way, especially since characters far stronger than him have bowed down to Kaido's rule (Hawkin's for example)

I was hoping the chapters leading up to Luffy coming back were like that back then but he revived the chapter right after his death

 

[SlendVeny]

Jinbe in no way should be compared to Queen based on their fights against Big Mom, and Jinbe most definitely should not scale to 5-C based on his own fight with her.

Literally right before their encounter, Big Mom's entire top commanders were commenting on how she's extremely slim and this was the thinnest they've seen her

I don't disagree. What's Perospero's full quote btw? It's clipped here in a really funny way that makes it seem like he hasn't seen his mom in years.

showing genuine and visible, with Big Mom confirming their statements in the next panels, even going as far as groaning in pain from how hungry she was.

This is true, but now I really want to know what the thing in that clipped-off speech bubble was, it's so suspenseful.

Hell, she could barely even stand.

I think that was more of a "urrrg my tummy hurts : ( I might cry."

Despite that, Jinbe was visible struggling hard to block the Cognac swing, and the moment Big Mom added the slightest amount of power, Jinbe got his chest and block sliced open and got sent flying.

Did he show any injuries? I genuinely don't remember.

Right after, Big Mom stated that she was "dying" of hunger,

That's a really common hyperbole, it's like when people say they're starving.

further showing that she was progressively losing power and getting weaker. After this, Jinbe gets back up and hits Big Mom with a water-enhanced Vagabond Drill (one oh his strongest attacks), and despite it having a durability negating aspect to it (we see the shockwaves enter Big Mom's body),

Does her body flubbering around like that mean the shockwave got absorbed into the fat?

he couldn't get a single reacting out of Big Mom.

Does "?!" not count, or was she just surprised he would raise a hand to him?

In fact, she literally did not acknowledge the attack, laughing and getting up literal seconds after landing on Zeus. Even Nami with Zeus' lightning could do more to Big Mom, causing her to yell and fall over in pain instead of just being pushed back and standing up immediately after like what happened when Jinbe attacked.

Zeus' scaling is so weird.

People often use Big Mom saying that she was "hungry" or the fact that she was suffering from amnesia to slander Queen and call him weak, but saying that without looking at the context makes no sense. Big Mom definitely was both hungry and suffering from amnesia, but we know that when she is in this state, she remains just as strong as before if not far stronger. As a kid, Big Mom became very hungry and showed strength far greater than she showed before, being able to oneshot the Giant Chief with a single throw.

Oh, that wasn't just a oneshot, that was literally murder. That said, I feel like the issue there was more "she isn't holding back," and not a literal boost. The human body has subconscious things in there that prevent you from throwing a punch as hard as you can, because it'll hurt you and them a lot, that's how "rage power" works irl. We also don't have any feats for her non-enraged child self. That said, I do think there is a chance that there might be an amp.

What's interesting about this is that Big Mom was also suffering from amnesia during these events, not remembering anything afterwards. So no, Big Mom was not weakened by her hunger or amnesia, but instead likely became stronger due to her anger (which makes sense logically due to showing less her restraint). People also try to use her amnesia to say that she was unable to use Haki, which is complete headcanon. We know for a fact that Big Mom coats herself with Buso passively, meaning that it's usage is not one that needs to be activated consciously.

The scan doesn't show Passive Haki.

Oda even made an entire plotline centered around the fact that the ONLY TIME that she is capable of taking damage from people who aren't 5-C while being healthy when she Carmel's picture gets broken. This weakens her so much so that falling onto her knees would cause her to bleed. A Base Big Mom with no homies that was angry was unable to draw blood with a point black strike to Zoan Queen's face,

This scan doesn't show his face, and that hit was very clearly superior to him. Although, good job on getting the part where Chopper says Big Mom might get whooped in there, it's a really funny bit that I had forgotten about.

and could only cause him to bleed after spinning him around several times and throwing him at a wall. Queen was confirmed to be pretending to be knocked out due to him being a big coward so don't come with the "Queen was two-shot" bs.

He wasn't two-shotted, but he was certainly hurt enough to know he was outclassed.

So Queen was able to take 2 attacks from an enraged Big Mom with her only being able to draw blood and not deal lasting damage shown by the lack of any scratches and the lack of any sign of fatigue from Queen after getting hit.

To be fair, you only need Low regen to recover from that.

Queen was also able to (with an attack that is logically below the likes of his regular and germa tech attacks)

Regular attack or regular tech attack? I... mostly agree with the latter, but I don't really want to cross-scale unrelated attacks from the same character rn.

cause Big Mom's bones to make cracking noises with the shock from his attack being so potent that it was able to reverse the amnesia and cause her head to hurt.

I could argue that was an LS thing, but I don't agree with that, just saying some people might. It's definitely at least SLIGHTLY stronger than his regular attacks, since he's using the weight of his full body + momentum to slam down on her while she isn't looking. Realized how that sounded after writing it, I'll rephrase. He's falling directly onto her with the full weight of his Zoan form, and it's a named attack, obviously, so it should be decently superior to regular hits from... idk, there's not a lot you can really do with a regular Brachiosaurus form, I feel like there might be a reason they added the snake thing.

And before you say that Big Mom's headache was a result of her brain regaining memories and not a direct result of Queen's headbutt, that makes absolutely 0 sense. We literally see Big Mom directly when she wakes after getting amnesia and she makes no mention of any headaches.

True. But yeah, getting hit in the head hurts, it sucks when that happens.

So comparing Jinbe and Queen,

Jinbe:

Fought starving and very skinny Big Mom that could barely walk

"Very skinny" and "could barely walk" are overstatements imo.

Struggled to block even when using Buso

This is... true/

Lost in a power struggle after the slightest amount of force was applied

"Slightest amount" is a bit of an understatement, she was literally swinging a flaming sword down at him beforehand.

Had his block blown apart and his chest cut up

Was he shown to have any injury on his chest? Also "blown apart," while technically true, is an exaggerative way to write "his arms moved out of the way."

Was unable to damage her despite using one of his strongest attacks that also uses some durability negation

Kinda true, I suppose, but if there's passive Haki involved, like you said, doesn't she resist Vibration Manip anyway.

Got outdone by Nami moments Later

That was also duraneg, and it was a lightning effect on someone covered in water. We don't specify that Queen "got outdone by Kid later in the arc" or something.

Queen:

Fought a version of Base Big Mom that is just as strong if not more powerful than her standard Base
Tanked an attack without any damage to show from it

Damage didn't show up because it wasn't a downgrade.

Took an amped attack from Hunger Pang Big Mom without any lasting damage despite not defending himself

He has regen.

Recovered near-instantly without any scratches, fatigue, or blood

He has regen.

Cracked Big Mom's skull

That is true.

Attacked her with enough force to make her regain her memories

limited memory manip

Made her head hurt so much that her first thought revolved around it
All without using Haki and only 1 named attack

Would his Haki have really helped?

 

[SlendVeny]

"Sorry about that, babe, my Haki makes me resist that via the effects of the Ride-Ride Fruit."

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Sanji wins high diff at most

We all know there's a big reason that ain't happening, Kachon

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Two big reasons, in fact

 

[Mndks]

Jinbe in no way should be compared to Queen based on their fights against Big Mom, and Jinbe most definitely should not scale to 5-C based on his own fight with her.

Literally right before their encounter, Big Mom's entire top commanders were commenting on how she's extremely slim and this was the thinnest they've seen her showing genuine and visible, with Big Mom confirming their statements in the next panels, even going as far as groaning in pain from how hungry she was. Hell, she could barely even stand. Despite that, Jinbe was visible struggling hard to block the Cognac swing, and the moment Big Mom added the slightest amount of power, Jinbe got his chest and block sliced open and got sent flying. Right after, Big Mom stated that she was "dying" of hunger, further showing that she was progressively losing power and getting weaker. After this, Jinbe gets back up and hits Big Mom with a water-enhanced Vagabond Drill (one oh his strongest attacks), and despite it having a durability negating aspect to it (we see the shockwaves enter Big Mom's body), he couldn't get a single reacting out of Big Mom. In fact, she literally did not acknowledge the attack, laughing and getting up literal seconds after landing on Zeus. Even Nami with Zeus' lightning could do more to Big Mom, causing her to yell and fall over in pain instead of just being pushed back and standing up immediately after like what happened when Jinbe attacked.

People often use Big Mom saying that she was "hungry" or the fact that she was suffering from amnesia to slander Queen and call him weak, but saying that without looking at the context makes no sense. Big Mom definitely was both hungry and suffering from amnesia, but we know that when she is in this state, she remains just as strong as before if not far stronger. As a kid, Big Mom became very hungry and showed strength far greater than she showed before, being able to oneshot the Giant Chief with a single throw. What's interesting about this is that Big Mom was also suffering from amnesia during these events, not remembering anything afterwards. So no, Big Mom was not weakened by her hunger or amnesia, but instead likely became stronger due to her anger (which makes sense logically due to showing less her restraint). People also try to use her amnesia to say that she was unable to use Haki, which is complete headcanon. We know for a fact that Big Mom coats herself with Buso passively, meaning that it's usage is not one that needs to be activated consciously. Oda even made an entire plotline centered around the fact that the ONLY TIME that she is capable of taking damage from people who aren't 5-C while being healthy when she Carmel's picture gets broken. This weakens her so much so that falling onto her knees would cause her to bleed. A Base Big Mom with no homies that was angry was unable to draw blood with a point black strike to Zoan Queen's face, and could only cause him to bleed after spinning him around several times and throwing him at a wall. Queen was confirmed to be pretending to be knocked out due to him being a big coward so don't come with the "Queen was two-shot" bs. So Queen was able to take 2 attacks from an enraged Big Mom with her only being able to draw blood and not deal lasting damage shown by the lack of any scratches and the lack of any sign of fatigue from Queen after getting hit. Queen was also able to (with an attack that is logically below the likes of his regular and germa tech attacks) cause Big Mom's bones to make cracking noises with the shock from his attack being so potent that it was able to reverse the amnesia and cause her head to hurt. And before you say that Big Mom's headache was a result of her brain regaining memories and not a direct result of Queen's headbutt, that makes absolutely 0 sense. We literally see Big Mom directly when she wakes after getting amnesia and she makes no mention of any headaches.

So comparing Jinbe and Queen,

Jinbe:

Fought starving and very skinny Big Mom that could barely walk
Struggled to block even when using Buso
Lost in a power struggle after the slightest amount of force was applied
Had his block blown apart and his chest cut up
Was unable to damage her despite using one of his strongest attacks that also uses some durability negation
Got outdone by Nami moments Later

Queen:

Fought a version of Base Big Mom that is just as strong if not more powerful than her standard Base
Tanked an attack without any damage to show from it
Took an amped attack from Hunger Pang Big Mom without any lasting damage despite not defending himself
Recovered near-instantly without any scratches, fatigue, or blood
Cracked Big Mom's skull
Attacked her with enough force to make her regain her memories
Made her head hurt so much that her first thought revolved around it
All without using Haki and only 1 named attack

Don't you ever get tired of writing such long articles?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

We all know there's a big reason that ain't happening, Kachon

He's trolling lol

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Don't you ever get tired of writing such long articles?

He usually doesn't do that but this time he dropped a whole yap album on us lmao

 

[Mndks]

He usually doesn't do that but this time he dropped a whole yap album on us lmao

Do you use Discord? I want to ask you a few questions.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Do you use Discord? I want to ask you a few questions.

I'll dm it to you

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Oml Charlotte Cracker got absolutely embarrassed in the recent episode.

His biscuits getting absolutely decimated by singular shots from Van Augur, only to get turned into a popsicle while crawling towards Kuzan. Brittle ass wouldn't last a second in wano.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Oml Charlotte Cracker got absolutely embarrassed in the recent episode.

His biscuits getting absolutely decimated by singular shots from Van Augur, only to get turned into a popsicle while crawling towards Kuzan. Brittle ass wouldn't last a second in wano.

Cracker seeing all his biscuit soldiers explode instantly as Kuzan looks him right in the eye (they both know his cheeks WILL be clapped no matter how many soldiers he pumps out now)

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Ngl though the episode makes Kuzan look like an absolute demon and Cracker like a little sissy bitch boy at the same time
Augur also looks cold

 

[SlendVeny]

Honestly, the idea of the weaker strawhats desperately trying to hold off Kaido in some final stand would be beyond badass ngl.

Imagining Usopp desperately launching everything in his arsenal at Kaido in a vain attempt to harm him. Fire, explosives, plants, literally showering him with a hail of attacks...just for Kaido to slowly walk towards him. Only for Monster Point to slam his hand into Kaidou, knocking him away, followed Robin attempting to restrain him. Jinbe rushing in with an intense Vagabond Drill directly into Kaido's chest.

It would contribute so much to Usopp's character especially, for him to attempt to attack Kaido in a situation like that. Would really show him becoming a "Brave Warrior" in a way, especially since characters far stronger than him have bowed down to Kaido's rule (Hawkin's for example)

Let me think up how all those would go:
-Franky fires a Radical Beam, Kaidou weaves. He uses a Thunder Bagua, and Franky goes down.
-Brook sees that move, and does the same thing with his Arrow-Notch Slash, a small bit of ice appearing on Kaidou. Kaidou turns around, congratulates him on being fast, and then takes him out with a Kongo Kabura
-Nami fires a bolt of lightning at him, and he turns, but there's an explosion against the back of his head. He turns around, scowling, and sees Usopp on top of a nearby railing, aiming at him. He says something along the lines of "Nami!! You think you're the only one who can protect their crew?? I'll show you who's a coward!!!" all while actively crying because Kaidou is slowly ambling toward him and shrugging off explosions and gas, knocking aside Pop Greens, and just walking through fire. Kaidou chuckles and backhands him into a wall.
-MP Chopper tackles him down onto the ground, yelling "KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY FRIENDS!!!" like Bepo did against Blackbeard, and starts throwing punches while Kaidou's laying there. Cut to Kaidou's face. He's smilling. He flips Chopper overhead, and Buso punches him in the face, picking up his club again with the unconscious Chopper on the ground behind him.
-Two arms from behind him reach around and hit him in the eyes, Fishman Karate waves traveling through the waves in his eyes as the fingers push inward. Enraged, he spins around, no one's there. Nico Robin taunts him, and he keeps attacking, but she warps out of the way every time, until he sends out an omnidirectional Hao wave, stunning her, then moving over, laughing about how she thought she could do that if Law couldn't. She uses Demonio Fleur, and attacks him repeatedly. He tells her to be proud that she wasn't completely pathetic, and takes her out with a Buso smack.
-Jinbe does that "Luffy is alive, because he couldn't die like that," thing I mentioned earlier. He jumps in with some Fishman Karate, Kaidou weaves repeatedly, and gets hit in the face with some water. They both coat their attacks in Buso and smack each other in their face, and Jinbe's down for a bit, getting back up, but Kaidou drops some Hao Infusion and knocks him out.
-Maybe Zoro and Sanji, still incredibly injured, leap in, with Sanji going "I was on the brink of death, but Nami-Swan's call brought me back," and Zoro going, "Wait, this isn't the rooftop," and start fighting, also getting their asses whooped, but they do a team attack like they did against the Pacifistas and Kaidou's actually forced to enter Hybrid to block, but they both pass out after this.
-"So this is the crew of the future Pirate King? Don't make me laugh. You're worthless."
-He steps toward Nami, pulling back his club. Zeus flies at him, going "YOU CAN'T HURT NAMI!!!" but that shit never works, he goes down in one smack. Kaidou laughs again, and Nami starts saying some "Damnit! Why can't we hurt him? If Luffy was here... NO!! WE HAVE TO SUPPORT HIM!!! We're his crew!" or some obvious foreshadowing like that. She hits him for no effect, uses Mirage Tempo, he sees through it with Kenbun and goes for the final blow, but stops, looking behind him.
-Some psycho offscreen starts laughing.

 

[SlendVeny]

Don't you ever get tired of writing such long articles?

Every sane human does, but we're powerscalers.

 

[SlendVeny]

his cheeks WILL be clapped no matter how many soldiers he pumps out

Cracker like a little sissy bitch boy

You goooootta chill mate. Horny on main.

 

[Mndks]

Every sane human does, but we're powerscalers.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

You goooootta chill mate. Horny on main.

Nah. I'd goon.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Smoker has been hit twice (one by the ice cream kid and the other by Luffy in Alabasta, Ace was also hit twice in this scene with Luffy) when off guard.

None of which ever got hurt from that... It's also stated smokers smoke can solidify

None of them was hit... They were only pushed with no damage caused to anyone.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I don't think Crocodile would have really been in his non-sand form with all these guys looking at him

I swear, the headcanon of logias is actually beyond insane... There is no manual activation with his elemental body

Edit: And also if that were the case, the original body wouldn't retain it's original form...

身体を砂に変化させ、自在に操る能力。砂状態では身体の原型を保たず、基本的に打撃などの物理攻撃は無効。

The ability to transform one's body into sand and manipulate it at will. In the sand state, the body does not retain its original form, and physical attacks such as blows are basically ineffective.

No where has it ever been said that being fast enough or getting them off guard, makes you be able to hit them... It's confirmed only seawater/seawater weapons, elemental weakness or haki makes you be able to fight them... There's nothing more to it... Anything else is just wrong.

They get damaged, the body automatically becomes elemental... It's not hard to understand, it could do something with DNA and how it switches the body to the elemental one when getting hit but we don't fully know that yet

 

[Ped2018]

Nah. I'd goon.

We know what happened last time you gooned

 

[XDragnoir]

None of which ever got hurt from that... It's also stated smokers smoke can solidify

None of them was hit... They were only pushed with no damage caused to anyone.

The point isn't getting hurt tho so that means nothing, it's about things without haki hitting Logias, it's literally impossible to push, hit or touch in any other way smoke and fite, yet that Kid and Luffy did it, in the same chapter Smoker also touches Ace twice (one when Luffy throws him, the other by himself).

Also, I am pretty sure Smoker's smoke isn't solid by default and that's something he has to consciously do when attacking, so there's no reason for his default mode to be Solid Smoke

 

[Aerozz]

The point isn't getting hurt tho so that means nothing, it's about things without haki hitting Logias, it's literally impossible to push, hit or touch in any other way smoke and fite, yet that Kid and Luffy did it, in the same chapter Smoker also touches Ace twice (one when Luffy throws him, the other by himself).

Also, I am pretty sure Smoker's smoke isn't solid by default and that's something he has to consciously do when attacking, so there's no reason for his default mode to be Solid Smoke

Well IMO Luffy hit Smoker because of the sea stone on his back and for Ace its because smoke can touch fire.

 

[XDragnoir]

Well IMO Luffy hit Smoker because of the sea stone on his back and for Ace its because smoke can touch fire.

Isn't the sea stone only at the tip of his jitte? I really doubt he'd carry a sea stone weapon with the sea stone having direct contact with his body given he is a DF user himself.

Here's the scene, the tip isn't even close to smoker

 

[Aerozz]

Isn't the sea stone only at the tip of his jitte? I really doubt he'd carry a sea stone weapon with the sea stone having direct contact with his body given he is a DF user himself.

i mean he didnt except that how would he know someone would fly to his back and hit him there XD
He usually use his weapon when in fight