One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[XDragnoir]

i mean he didnt except that how would he know someone would fly to his back and hit him there XD
He usually use his weapon when in fight

First, it's only in the tip as far as we know and if you see my edit, it wasn't touching smoker.

2nd, if Smoker was in constant contact with Seastone he wouldn't have energy, as that's what happens instantly when a DF user touches Seastone.

 

[Crobatman44]

Man as much as Cracker got destroyed,he also felt weirdly brave in how even while getting complety Frozen he did not try to run or give up,and still was trying to go after Kuzan.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I don't disagree. What's Perospero's full quote btw? It's clipped here in a really funny way that makes it seem like he hasn't seen his mom in years.

This is true, but now I really want to know what the thing in that clipped-off speech bubble was, it's so suspenseful.

I think that was more of a "urrrg my tummy hurts : ( I might cry."

Did he show any injuries? I genuinely don't remember.

That's a really common hyperbole, it's like when people say they're starving.

Does her body flubbering around like that mean the shockwave got absorbed into the fat?

Does "?!" not count, or was she just surprised he would raise a hand to him?

Zeus' scaling is so weird.

Oh, that wasn't just a oneshot, that was literally murder. That said, I feel like the issue there was more "she isn't holding back," and not a literal boost. The human body has subconscious things in there that prevent you from throwing a punch as hard as you can, because it'll hurt you and them a lot, that's how "rage power" works irl. We also don't have any feats for her non-enraged child self. That said, I do think there is a chance that there might be an amp.

The scan doesn't show Passive Haki.

This scan doesn't show his face, and that hit was very clearly superior to him. Although, good job on getting the part where Chopper says Big Mom might get whooped in there, it's a really funny bit that I had forgotten about.

He wasn't two-shotted, but he was certainly hurt enough to know he was outclassed.

To be fair, you only need Low regen to recover from that.

Regular attack or regular tech attack? I... mostly agree with the latter, but I don't really want to cross-scale unrelated attacks from the same character rn.

I could argue that was an LS thing, but I don't agree with that, just saying some people might. It's definitely at least SLIGHTLY stronger than his regular attacks, since he's using the weight of his full body + momentum to slam down on her while she isn't looking. Realized how that sounded after writing it, I'll rephrase. He's falling directly onto her with the full weight of his Zoan form, and it's a named attack, obviously, so it should be decently superior to regular hits from... idk, there's not a lot you can really do with a regular Brachiosaurus form, I feel like there might be a reason they added the snake thing.

True. But yeah, getting hit in the head hurts, it sucks when that happens.

"Very skinny" and "could barely walk" are overstatements imo.

This is... true/

"Slightest amount" is a bit of an understatement, she was literally swinging a flaming sword down at him beforehand.

Was he shown to have any injury on his chest? Also "blown apart," while technically true, is an exaggerative way to write "his arms moved out of the way."

Kinda true, I suppose, but if there's passive Haki involved, like you said, doesn't she resist Vibration Manip anyway.

That was also duraneg, and it was a lightning effect on someone covered in water. We don't specify that Queen "got outdone by Kid later in the arc" or something.

Damage didn't show up because it wasn't a downgrade.

He has regen.

He has regen.

That is true.

limited memory manip

Would his Haki have really helped?

Queen never cracked her skull how are you actually agreeing with that lmao

 

[SlendVeny]

I swear, the headcanon of logias is actually beyond insane... There is no manual activation with his elemental body

Edit: And also if that were the case, the original body wouldn't retain it's original form...


No where has it ever been said that being fast enough or getting them off guard, makes you be able to hit them... It's confirmed only seawater/seawater weapons, elemental weakness or haki makes you be able to fight them... There's nothing more to it... Anything else is just wrong.

They get damaged, the body automatically becomes elemental... It's not hard to understand, it could do something with DNA and how it switches the body to the elemental one when getting hit but we don't fully know that yet

I don't literally think that, I've made it very clear I'm steelmanning.

 

[SlendVeny]

Queen never cracked her skull how are you actually agreeing with that lmao

I assumed he meant "hit the skull hard enough to make a cracking noise," which isn't hard.

 

[SlendVeny]

Man as much as Cracker got destroyed,he also felt weirdly brave in how even while getting complety Frozen he did not try to run or give up,and still was trying to go after Kuzan.

I almost with they'd had Aokiji fight Katakuri and annihilate him with one punch, but then that would just lead to Admiral fans getting worse and Katakuri fans going "Wow, he got like ten times stronger over the timeskip!"

 

[SlendVeny]

Don't let me catch any of y'all who said "Van Augur's attacks don't scale to anything, they're just bullets," trying to talk shit to me ever again.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

I mean Van Augur more than likely has armament haki like any other relevant sniper in the verse would atp. They'd already have a decent justification to scale of they pierced anyone relevant.

 

[SlendVeny]

I mean Van Augur more than likely has armament haki like any other relevant sniper in the verse would atp. They'd already have a decent justification to scale of they pierced anyone relevant.

There's the obvious "threat to Casual Law" bit, but other than that idk.

 

[SlendVeny]

Fun fact, Shiryu actually was there that whole fight, you just couldn't see him. And he did no damage because he was a small time Impel Down thug.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I don't literally think that, I've made it very clear I'm steelmanning.

All I understood with what you said was... I'm wrong but I'm still going to argue...

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Doffy wankers disappoint me. If I were one I'd argue he's above angry Buso Amped Bigger Mom as he sliced off Law's arm and Big Mom's punches didn't do that much

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The point isn't getting hurt tho so that means nothing, it's about things without haki hitting Logias, it's literally impossible to push, hit or touch in any other way smoke and fite, yet that Kid and Luffy did it, in the same chapter Smoker also touches Ace twice (one when Luffy throws him, the other by himself).

and whats your point if they did interact? They still automatically transform when getting damaged so it doesn't matter... And pushing fire and smoke is not impossible at all

Also, I am pretty sure Smoker's smoke isn't solid by default and that's something he has to consciously do when attacking, so there's no reason for his default mode to be Solid Smoke

Well we don't know that... Clouds in op can be solid/more dense, so him having more density to his smoke isn't impossible

 

[SlendVeny]

All I understood with what you said was... I'm wrong but I'm still going to argue...

Steelmanning, in layman's terms, is when you represent someone else's argument in good faith.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Steelmanning, in layman's terms, is when you represent someone else's argument in good faith.

nahhhh, that's proof it's something else because you never do that with me

 

[SlendVeny]

nahhhh, that's proof it's something else because you never do that with me

Greetings, pot. Name's kettle. We literally agree on this topic, and you still went with the "This is insane and headcanon" argument.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Greetings, pot. Name's kettle. We literally agree on this topic, and you still went with the "This is insane and headcanon" argument.

Yes... Because you said... "Crocodile would have his sand mode on at all times in that situation"

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

ohh yee there's also where oda said crocodile has a hard time showering so he can't turn it off or on

Doesn't work like that

that's like turning off the ability to breathe which you can't.

 

[SlendVeny]

Yes... Because you said... "Crocodile would have his sand mode on at all times in that situation"

And I very explicitly stated I don't agree with that, it's just an argument that could be used against the point I literally agree with. You have to be willfully misinterpreting my words at this point.

 

[XDragnoir]

and whats your point if they did interact? They still automatically transform when getting damaged so it doesn't matter... And pushing fire and smoke is not impossible at all

My point is that they could be interacted with at the early days of OP, nothing more and nothing less and as I pointed out in my first post, there was a high chance of a statement that properly explains their elemental/physical duality existing, Idk what you're even trying to imply here.

Also, you know very well what I meant by "pushing", you can't push fire and smoke the same way you can push a door or something like that, wtf.

Well we don't know that... Clouds in op can be solid/more dense, so him having more density to his smoke isn't impossible

Isn't impossible but is that stated to be the case anywhere? Also, do you have the statement about him being able to control his density? Maybe the statement itself already clarifies if they're always at solid density or if he has to increase it when he wants to.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

And I very explicitly stated I don't agree with that, it's just an argument that could be used against the point I literally agree with. You have to be willfully misinterpreting my words at this point.

Then you should say that when replying to me on the same post...

My point is that they could be interacted with at the early days of OP, nothing more and nothing less and as I pointed out in my first post, there was a high chance of a statement that properly explains their elemental/physical duality existing, Idk what you're even trying to imply here.

Nah nah nah... You guys are changing because of the lack of evidence

Unless it was retconed at some point by a statement later on (possibly the case) Logias really didn't seem to be elemental 100% of the time at the start.

Also, you know very well what I meant by "pushing", you can't push fire and smoke the same way you can push a door or something like that, wtf.

ok nah... Wtf is this, you meant push/move in general

Isn't impossible but is that stated to be the case anywhere? Also, do you have the statement about him being able to control his density? Maybe the statement itself already clarifies if they're always at solid density or if he has to increase it when he wants to.

doesn't say much on controlling his density but it said it's possible to maintain a tangible form of his smoke

The ability to transform the body into smoke. It is also possible to maintain a tangible form while in smoke state, making it adept at enveloping and restraining targets!

 

[SlendVeny]

Nah nah nah... You guys are changing because of the lack of evidence

They literally said the same statement twice. No one is changing, you just want to be a douchebag.

 

[XDragnoir]

Nah nah nah... You guys are changing because of the lack of evidence

What? My point was from the very start that early OP had things (the kid bumping on Smoker and Smoker being launched by Luffy, breaking through the walls and later touching Ace) being able to interact, you moved the discussion to some kind of damage/interaction that clearly wasn't my goal at the start.

ok nah... Wtf is this, you meant push/move in general

Why would I be talking about some random thing like idk, blowing the fire out of a candle as if it anything had to do with someone touching someone straight up made of fire like Ace.

Either you missed the point even beyond what I thought was possible or you are being purposefully dense, densier than Smoker's smoke indeed.

doesn't say much on controlling his density but it said it's possible to maintain a tangible form of his smoke

It clearly says that it's a possibility not that it is the default, so even if he can theoretically do that, there's no reason he'd be doing that in the scene with the kid or when Luffy launched him.

So again, the early arcs had Logias being interacted with, later on this seems to have changed as we can see with Crocodile and to a minor extent with other Logias (the problem is that most of the others are also Kenbu users so it's almost impossible to tell)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

They literally said the same statement twice. No one is changing, you just want to be a douchebag.

insane gaslighting

Would rather die than be that

 

[Darkvie123]

Jinbe in no way should be compared to Queen based on their fights against Big Mom, and Jinbe most definitely should not scale to 5-C based on his own fight with her.

Literally right before their encounter, Big Mom's entire top commanders were commenting on how she's extremely slim and this was the thinnest they've seen her showing genuine and visible, with Big Mom confirming their statements in the next panels, even going as far as groaning in pain from how hungry she was. Hell, she could barely even stand. Despite that, Jinbe was visible struggling hard to block the Cognac swing, and the moment Big Mom added the slightest amount of power, Jinbe got his chest and block sliced open and got sent flying. Right after, Big Mom stated that she was "dying" of hunger, further showing that she was progressively losing power and getting weaker. After this, Jinbe gets back up and hits Big Mom with a water-enhanced Vagabond Drill (one oh his strongest attacks), and despite it having a durability negating aspect to it (we see the shockwaves enter Big Mom's body), he couldn't get a single reacting out of Big Mom. In fact, she literally did not acknowledge the attack, laughing and getting up literal seconds after landing on Zeus. Even Nami with Zeus' lightning could do more to Big Mom, causing her to yell and fall over in pain instead of just being pushed back and standing up immediately after like what happened when Jinbe attacked.

People often use Big Mom saying that she was "hungry" or the fact that she was suffering from amnesia to slander Queen and call him weak, but saying that without looking at the context makes no sense. Big Mom definitely was both hungry and suffering from amnesia, but we know that when she is in this state, she remains just as strong as before if not far stronger. As a kid, Big Mom became very hungry and showed strength far greater than she showed before, being able to oneshot the Giant Chief with a single throw. What's interesting about this is that Big Mom was also suffering from amnesia during these events, not remembering anything afterwards. So no, Big Mom was not weakened by her hunger or amnesia, but instead likely became stronger due to her anger (which makes sense logically due to showing less her restraint). People also try to use her amnesia to say that she was unable to use Haki, which is complete headcanon. We know for a fact that Big Mom coats herself with Buso passively, meaning that it's usage is not one that needs to be activated consciously. Oda even made an entire plotline centered around the fact that the ONLY TIME that she is capable of taking damage from people who aren't 5-C while being healthy when she Carmel's picture gets broken. This weakens her so much so that falling onto her knees would cause her to bleed. A Base Big Mom with no homies that was angry was unable to draw blood with a point black strike to Zoan Queen's face, and could only cause him to bleed after spinning him around several times and throwing him at a wall. Queen was confirmed to be pretending to be knocked out due to him being a big coward so don't come with the "Queen was two-shot" bs. So Queen was able to take 2 attacks from an enraged Big Mom with her only being able to draw blood and not deal lasting damage shown by the lack of any scratches and the lack of any sign of fatigue from Queen after getting hit. Queen was also able to (with an attack that is logically below the likes of his regular and germa tech attacks) cause Big Mom's bones to make cracking noises with the shock from his attack being so potent that it was able to reverse the amnesia and cause her head to hurt. And before you say that Big Mom's headache was a result of her brain regaining memories and not a direct result of Queen's headbutt, that makes absolutely 0 sense. We literally see Big Mom directly when she wakes after getting amnesia and she makes no mention of any headaches.

So comparing Jinbe and Queen,

Jinbe:

Fought starving and very skinny Big Mom that could barely walk
Struggled to block even when using Buso
Lost in a power struggle after the slightest amount of force was applied
Had his block blown apart and his chest cut up
Was unable to damage her despite using one of his strongest attacks that also uses some durability negation
Got outdone by Nami moments Later

Queen:

Fought a version of Base Big Mom that is just as strong if not more powerful than her standard Base
Tanked an attack without any damage to show from it
Took an amped attack from Hunger Pang Big Mom without any lasting damage despite not defending himself
Recovered near-instantly without any scratches, fatigue, or blood
Cracked Big Mom's skull
Attacked her with enough force to make her regain her memories
Made her head hurt so much that her first thought revolved around it
All without using Haki and only 1 named attack

JInbe still beats Queens ass cope

 

[SlendVeny]

insane gaslighting

Greetings, pot. Name's kettle.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

JInbe still beats Queens ass cope

I love how we're all flaming him over his personal opinion
I mean he can be a bit of a douche bag but still lol

 

[SlendVeny]

I love how we're all flaming him over his personal opinion
I mean he can be a bit of a douche bag but still lol

Honestly, could have offered an opinion without trying to slander HIM.

 

[Darkvie123]

I love how we're all flaming him over his personal opinion
I mean he can be a bit of a douche bag but still lol

Queen is just overrated. Saying he stands a chance vs Marco is disgraceful

Also Queen is a Jozu and Vista victim let alone Marco

 

[SlendVeny]

Queen is just overrated. Saying he stands a chance vs Marco is disgraceful

Also Queen is a Jozu and Vista victim let alone Marco

I remember the Queen vs Jozu thread. Kachon's one of the few people I respect on here, but it was so funny to see him breaking down over the "but what if Jozu reflected the lasers?" argument.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Queen is just overrated. Saying he stands a chance vs Marco is disgraceful

Also Queen is a Jozu and Vista victim let alone Marco

We literally saw Marco make him look like an absolute fuggin fool in his most powerful and durable form as well as dodge his lasers and tank his gun but Queen > Marco cause I have to wank Queen to aid my Sanji agenda

 

[SlendVeny]

We literally saw Marco make him look like an absolute fuggin fool in his most powerful and durable form as well as dodge his lasers and tank his gun but Queen > Marco cause I have to wank Queen to aid my Sanji agenda

Queen is truly the master of feats against people who aren't trying at all to block.

 

[Ped2018]

Jesus, these takes are so ass that i'm gonna have to side with Kachon

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Jesus, these takes are so ass that i'm gonna have to side with Kachon

Queen is truly the master of feats against people who aren't trying at all to block.

Truth

 

[SlendVeny]

There any Seastone destruction feats, or is that shit 5-C? Wano stonecutters don't count, we know those bastards got Duraneg.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Queen is just overrated. Saying he stands a chance vs Marco is disgraceful

If anything Queen is underrated by 99% of the fanbase tbh tbh.

I don't think he beats Marco or nothing, but he is legitimately pretty darn strong .

 

[AnAverageUsername]

If anything Queen is underrated by 99% of the fanbase tbh tbh.

I don't think he beats Marco or nothing, but he is legitimately pretty darn strong .

he may look chubby, but it's all muscle

 

[SlendVeny]

he may look chubby, but it's all muscle

He's got enough fans attracted to his funk.

 

[Kachon123]

Yall are so ridiculous

 

[SlendVeny]

(Love how King looks like he was chilling and immediately left when the music started)